Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Parabalus]

If you choose Vordakai, do you just miss out on all the imported Varnhold's Lot items?

Any straightforward way to work around this?

Not just adding the items, but visiting Lostlarn too.

Don't choose Vordokai.

Do the crime do the time.

Is there anything to do in Lostlarn in the main game?

 

[Yosharian]

Quickened Mirror Image alone would make boss encounters so much harder. I'm sure Vordakai has a bunch of level 5 spell slots. All he has to do is last MORE THAN ONE ROUND and it will be a boost to his effectiveness.

Also he should have rods to auto-quicken anyway, not that that even works properly in RTWP mode as far as I can tell

I don't think that mirror image, even quickened version, would help him much, because dispel exists. It would just mean that instead of CCing and killing right away, you dispel and go ham. He would still die in the first round.

Ok but actually having to use dispel magic on a high value spellcaster is already a big leap in complexity over what we have right now

 

[Desiderius]

If you choose Vordakai, do you just miss out on all the imported Varnhold's Lot items?

Any straightforward way to work around this?

Not just adding the items, but visiting Lostlarn too.

Don't choose Vordokai.

Do the crime do the time.

Is there anything to do in Lostlarn in the main game?

A little. Not much.

 

[Gargaune]

Bollocks, just updated to 2.1.5d and the UI Extensions mod is a no-go. Looks it's been broken a long time, in fact, someone patched it up to work back in August but I guess TB mode put the final in its coffin. Damn shame.

 

[Desiderius]

Optional balance fixes:

• Monk/Sacred Fist max AC bonus from Wisdom and Paladin/Antipaladin saves bonus from Charisma is limited by corresponding class level
• Most Bloodline arcanas work only on sorcerer/eldritch scion/blood arcanist spells
• Two-Weapon fighting automatically gives iterative off-hand attacks once your bab reaches 6 and 11, Improved and Greater Two-Weapon fighting are removed from the game
• 3 Vital Strike feats are merged into 1, damage dice automatically increases once your bab reaches 11 and 16
• Great Cleave is merged with Cleave into one feat
• Improved Cleaving Finish is merged with Cleaving finish into one feat
• Blood havoc affects only bloodline spells
• Fey/Infernal bloodline arcanas, Arcane Bloodline School Power and Power from Pageantry give only +1 bonus to corresponding spell DC/CL
• Potent Magic arcane exploit is removed from the game
• Precise Shot no longer requires Point-Blank Shot
• Damage of basic domain/school powers scales a bit better
• Damage/Healing die of spells and abilities is increased by one step (by 2 steps if it was greater than d6).

 

[Sjukob]

I think caster nerfs are too heavy handed. Martial dps however get all the benefits with 0 drawbacks.

 

[Desiderius]

They're optional.

The Martial consolidations are to make room for things like Swordplay Upset or the Shield Feats that are hardly broken.

I guess save or die ended up being too much of a thing if you stacked enough DCs?

 

[Salvo]

No offense, but in turn-based, if he doesn't nuke the field with that fireball 1st round, he's eating dirt by the 2nd. Not sure who thinks has better ideas, but they probably shouldn't think they do.

game is designed around rtwp and so is this mod

complaining about TB is moot when the game is not even considering it design wise

Is this mod for RTwP or Turn-based mode

I have only played this mod in turnbased mode, but I have a good feeling it will work with RTwP.

From the mod's nexus page.

 

[Sjukob]

They're optional.

The Martial consolidations are to make room for things like Swordplay Upset or the Shield Feats that are hardly broken.

I guess save or die ended up being too much of a thing if you stacked enough DCs?

Yeah, I know.

Thing is, martial DPS are already very strong, reliable and have good progression. They also don't have to manage as much stuff as casters, just buff up and go ham. Casters have to account for spell slots, spell resistance, energy resistance, various saves, immunities and friendly fire. Just saying, you know this better than me. Spell focus + greater spell focus + spell penetration + greater spell penetration is insane feat tax, that simply should not exist, some casters would also need point blank shot + precise shot... I say it's these things that should be relaxed or lifted outright, martials in general get a good number of bonus feats, but, because of the said things, casters are usually feat starved.

Can't say how high you can stack DC at the moment, I'm currently running school savant arcanist, we'll see what happens once I get foretell. But if you ask me, being able to stack crazy DC is enterily justified by enemies having inflated stats. Martials running around with AC so high that they can only be hit on natural 20 and reliably 1-2 hitting even stronger enemies bothers nobody, but as soon as casters are able to reliably land their spells past spell resistance, immunities and saves it suddenly becomes a problem. No idea why.

 

[Sweeper]

Welp, I did it again. I installed it. And THIS time, I'm gonna complete a playthrough of this motherfucker if it kills me.
TB mode sucks cocks btw, and if you play it in TB you should feel bad about yourself.

 

[Desiderius]

They're optional.

The Martial consolidations are to make room for things like Swordplay Upset or the Shield Feats that are hardly broken.

I guess save or die ended up being too much of a thing if you stacked enough DCs?

Yeah, I know.

Thing is, martial DPS are already very strong, reliable and have good progression. They also don't have to manage as much stuff as casters, just buff up and go ham. Casters have to account for spell slots, spell resistance, energy resistance, various saves, immunities and friendly fire. Just saying, you know this better than me. Spell focus + greater spell focus + spell penetration + greater spell penetration is insane feat tax, that simply should not exist, some casters would also need point blank shot + precise shot... I say it's these things that should be relaxed or lifted outright, martials in general get a good number of bonus feats, but, because of the said things, casters are usually feat starved.

Can't say how high you can stack DC at the moment, I'm currently running school savant arcanist, we'll see what happens once I get foretell. But if you ask me, being able to stack crazy DC is enterily justified by enemies having inflated stats. Martials running around with AC so high that they can only be hit on natural 20 and reliably 1-2 hitting even stronger enemies bothers nobody, but as soon as casters are able to reliably land their spells past spell resistance, immunities and saves it suddenly becomes a problem. No idea why.

Martial + buff is a whole party effort, it's not about just martials being strong. If save or dies get too good you've got one guy killing everything while everyone else picks their noses. With Flanking (much) harder and the implementation of Cover in CotW you've got Martials needing two or three more Feats just to get to where they are in vanilla. That's what those condensations are about.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Quickened Mirror Image isn't going to save Vordekai against a party of 6 (or 5). The spell isn't a garuntee against melee, it doesn't protect against AoE, gets shredded by one round of iteratives, and is an illusion--which are easily dispatched. He needs proper high, or even mid tier defensive spell.

 

[Daidre]

Quickened Mirror Image isn't going to save Vordekai against a party of 6 (or 5). The spell isn't a garuntee against melee, it doesn't protect against AoE, gets shredded by one round of iteratives, and is an illusion--which are easily dispatched. He needs proper high, or even mid tier defensive spell.

Except there are no truly broken defensive spells in P:K. 10 DR from Stoneskin is nothing against martial with two-hander + power attack and Mirror Image, Displacement and Greater Invisibility are all illusions and completely negated by True Seeing (that was fixed at last!) and partly negated by tremorsense/echolocation. Seamantle is probably best single defensive high level arcane spell, and is still just hefty AC bonus and nothing more.

And that was not that different in PnP 2ed and 3ed, since Bioware needed to invent and house-rule completely and utterly broken Protection From Magical Weapons and its analogues to give BG2's mages fighting chance. Like later Bioware invented NWN spells with 20-30/+5 DR to give wizard/sorcerer PCs a chance in the game with single controlled character.

 

[Efe]

he should have had some adds

 

[The_Mask]

And that was not that different in PnP 2ed and 3ed, since Bioware needed to invent and house-rule completely and utterly broken Protection From Magical Weapons and its analogues to give BG2's mages fighting chance. Like later Bioware invented NWN spells with 20-30/+5 DR to give wizard/sorcerer PCs a chance in the game with single controlled character.

Wasn't that broken. All you needed was to Break it.

Broken were the contingencies and sequencers.

 

[Yosharian]

And that was not that different in PnP 2ed and 3ed, since Bioware needed to invent and house-rule completely and utterly broken Protection From Magical Weapons and its analogues to give BG2's mages fighting chance. Like later Bioware invented NWN spells with 20-30/+5 DR to give wizard/sorcerer PCs a chance in the game with single controlled character.

Wasn't that broken. All you needed was to Break it.

Broken were the contingencies and sequencers.

Those should have never been given to the player, they should have been monster-only spells

 

[Desiderius]

Y’all get back to me after you’ve owned Farrinas and Reaford on Unfair.

They know how to make hard bosses and it has nothing to do with adds or defense. Y’all are making the same mistake people make with Monk splashes and the like. In this game best defense is a good offense. Put the player on the back foot.

They chose not to, and as a design decision it makes sense. By the time you get to the end of that dungeon you feel like a 10,000 year-old Lich yourself. His power has degraded and much as yours has. War of attrition.

 

[Desiderius]

Freedom of Movement negates Seamantle (you swim through the water).

 

[Yosharian]

Lmao Farnirras gets owned by Icy Prison.

 

[Dodo1610]

I haven't played KM in over a year, should I use Call of the Wild? Because though that mods adds tons of good features it also add lots of third party feats and stuff that's just straight game-breaking.

 

[Desiderius]

Holic keeps it pretty real. Nothing more game breaking than what’s in base game. With the Flanking mod he recommends it’s less game breaking because it also has cover.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

I haven't played KM in over a year, should I use Call of the Wild? Because though that mods adds tons of good features it also add lots of third party feats and stuff that's just straight game-breaking.

You can disable his "balance fix" and other features in the mod settings.xml in the game mods folder. Otherwise from what I understand the feat and classes are adapted from PnP, with reasonable implementation adaptation/constraint.

CotW added a lot of stuff which certainly not available for the enemies and so yeah, they will make the games easier. But if you have finished KM before, CotW is breath of fresh air due to sheer amount of toy to play with. The latest version even added Drake Companion and Drake Druid and Shaman archtype. Pretty cool.

 

[Desiderius]

CotW is inly easier if you've already mastered the base game. I'd guess it would be harder for newbs.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

About the only difference when fighting Farrinas his that you send is buddies on a trip down a hole first before you gank him. It absolutely aggravated me the first time I fought him that his summons were not eligible to be dismissed. That probable oversight felt like an insult. Regarding Vordekai, I do agree with Desiderius that him being soft was likely a conscious choice since he was at the end of that sprawling dungeon, but it's not like you don't have any opportunity to rest there. I just choose not to. I have no idea why Owlcat left out so many staple spells though. Even something as iconic as Globe of Invulnerability would go a long way in KM. A spell like Repulsion would have been an outstanding choice for them to put in, as it would have given their awful AI some breathing room.

 

[Nano]

Amiri just immediately landed a crit on Tartuk. That was kinda anticlimactic.