Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[gurugeorge]

I've been playing this again, finishing the story for an old character. In some ways it's actually a better game than WOTR (though I do like that a lot too). PFK is more contained, and is the better for it, plus I also think the Fey make a more sinister and weird enemy than the Demons, and the kingdom management is actually more engaging than the skippable crusade combats. It's noticeably older graphics-wise ofc, but that's not a huge problem. The QOL tweaks of WOTR are nice, but again, the lack of them isn't a deal breaker. PFK is still an eminently playable game.

Anyway, the thing I wanted to give a heads-up is that when I was re-checking mods for this, I was looking for something as good as Bubble Buff is for WOTR, and there's nothing like that. There's BuffBot of course, but it's a bit fiddly to use with its UMM interface. However, there is a rather neat little thing called Pathfinder Auto Buff. It's not under development any more (last upload Oct 2021) and it doesn't handle metamagic very well, but for your basic setup of long, medium and short buffs, it's actually pretty easy to use - you basically just record a sequence of buffing (i.e. you hit a record button, do the buffs manually with your wee guys and the prog records the sequence), save it as a sequence and play it back (with a handy little in-game menu). The fun thing about it is that it actually plays back the animations and chants and fx when it plays back the buffing sequence. I suppose some might find that annoying (chat has requests to skip the anims ofc ), but i find it rather sustains a bit of immersion (i.e. the buffing feels more like it's part of the virtual world rather than a meta thing you're doing - though it's a bit comically frantic when they're all doing the buffing all at once ).

Shame it's not still in development, but it's good enough for the basics. It wouldn't be good if you were chopping and changing your party a lot, but it's good enough if you're working with a stable party that you don't change much.

 

[Yosharian]

I've been playing this again, finishing the story for an old character. In some ways it's actually a better game than WOTR (though I do like that a lot too). PFK is more contained, and is the better for it, plus I also think the Fey make a more sinister and weird enemy than the Demons, and the kingdom management is actually more engaging than the skippable crusade combats. It's noticeably older graphics-wise ofc, but that's not a huge problem. The QOL tweaks of WOTR are nice, but again, the lack of them isn't a deal breaker. PFK is still an eminently playable game.

Anyway, the thing I wanted to give a heads-up is that when I was re-checking mods for this, I was looking for something as good as Bubble Buff is for WOTR, and there's nothing like that. There's BuffBot of course, but it's a bit fiddly to use with its UMM interface. However, there is a rather neat little thing called Pathfinder Auto Buff. It's not under development any more (last upload Oct 2021) and it doesn't handle metamagic very well, but for your basic setup of long, medium and short buffs, it's actually pretty easy to use - you basically just record a sequence of buffing (i.e. you hit a record button, do the buffs manually with your wee guys and the prog records the sequence), save it as a sequence and play it back (with a handy little in-game menu). The fun thing about it is that it actually plays back the animations and chants and fx when it plays back the buffing sequence. I suppose some might find that annoying (chat has requests to skip the anims ofc ), but i find it rather sustains a bit of immersion (i.e. the buffing feels more like it's part of the virtual world rather than a meta thing you're doing - though it's a bit comically frantic when they're all doing the buffing all at once ).

Shame it's not still in development, but it's good enough for the basics. It wouldn't be good if you were chopping and changing your party a lot, but it's good enough if you're working with a stable party that you don't change much.

This is fantastic. It just doesn't work with Metamagic'd spells at all?

 

[gurugeorge]

I've been playing this again, finishing the story for an old character. In some ways it's actually a better game than WOTR (though I do like that a lot too). PFK is more contained, and is the better for it, plus I also think the Fey make a more sinister and weird enemy than the Demons, and the kingdom management is actually more engaging than the skippable crusade combats. It's noticeably older graphics-wise ofc, but that's not a huge problem. The QOL tweaks of WOTR are nice, but again, the lack of them isn't a deal breaker. PFK is still an eminently playable game.

Anyway, the thing I wanted to give a heads-up is that when I was re-checking mods for this, I was looking for something as good as Bubble Buff is for WOTR, and there's nothing like that. There's BuffBot of course, but it's a bit fiddly to use with its UMM interface. However, there is a rather neat little thing called Pathfinder Auto Buff. It's not under development any more (last upload Oct 2021) and it doesn't handle metamagic very well, but for your basic setup of long, medium and short buffs, it's actually pretty easy to use - you basically just record a sequence of buffing (i.e. you hit a record button, do the buffs manually with your wee guys and the prog records the sequence), save it as a sequence and play it back (with a handy little in-game menu). The fun thing about it is that it actually plays back the animations and chants and fx when it plays back the buffing sequence. I suppose some might find that annoying (chat has requests to skip the anims ofc ), but i find it rather sustains a bit of immersion (i.e. the buffing feels more like it's part of the virtual world rather than a meta thing you're doing - though it's a bit comically frantic when they're all doing the buffing all at once ).

Shame it's not still in development, but it's good enough for the basics. It wouldn't be good if you were chopping and changing your party a lot, but it's good enough if you're working with a stable party that you don't change much.

This is fantastic. It just doesn't work with Metamagic'd spells at all?

I can't get it to work, it just womp womps on my main's extended greater invis and displacement. It records fine and the spells show up in the saved queue, and it's designed with provision for metamagic (there are buttons to prioritize particular metamagics), but it doesn't seem to be functioning properly yet. I might not be understanding it properly though, I didn't RTFM and just started using it.

 

[Yosharian]

Alright I'm gonna check it out

 

[Yosharian]

Not only does a metamagic spell not actually get cast properly, it seems to delete the spell slot somehow, which is rather alarming.

So definitely don't use it with metamagic. It catches Mutagens, testing other abilities now

Ok this mod is absolutely fantastic. It is catching all abilities I've tested with reasonable reliability and if it fails to record accurately you can edit the buff command in the GUI to add extra targets, etc.

It knows when buffs are active so it won't waste spell slots recasting spells that haven't timed out.

This mod is amazing.

 

[Cael]

I've been playing this again, finishing the story for an old character. In some ways it's actually a better game than WOTR (though I do like that a lot too). PFK is more contained, and is the better for it, plus I also think the Fey make a more sinister and weird enemy than the Demons, and the kingdom management is actually more engaging than the skippable crusade combats. It's noticeably older graphics-wise ofc, but that's not a huge problem. The QOL tweaks of WOTR are nice, but again, the lack of them isn't a deal breaker. PFK is still an eminently playable game.

Anyway, the thing I wanted to give a heads-up is that when I was re-checking mods for this, I was looking for something as good as Bubble Buff is for WOTR, and there's nothing like that. There's BuffBot of course, but it's a bit fiddly to use with its UMM interface. However, there is a rather neat little thing called Pathfinder Auto Buff. It's not under development any more (last upload Oct 2021) and it doesn't handle metamagic very well, but for your basic setup of long, medium and short buffs, it's actually pretty easy to use - you basically just record a sequence of buffing (i.e. you hit a record button, do the buffs manually with your wee guys and the prog records the sequence), save it as a sequence and play it back (with a handy little in-game menu). The fun thing about it is that it actually plays back the animations and chants and fx when it plays back the buffing sequence. I suppose some might find that annoying (chat has requests to skip the anims ofc ), but i find it rather sustains a bit of immersion (i.e. the buffing feels more like it's part of the virtual world rather than a meta thing you're doing - though it's a bit comically frantic when they're all doing the buffing all at once ).

Shame it's not still in development, but it's good enough for the basics. It wouldn't be good if you were chopping and changing your party a lot, but it's good enough if you're working with a stable party that you don't change much.

I use pause to set up my 5 guys buffing, so it is always frantic looking. By having multiple people able to buff, it very much shortens the time of buffing. Of course, unlike the usual paizhit retards, I don't buff every fight. Frequently, Mage Armour on the animal companions is more than enough when they are backed up by an Arcane Trickster doing sneak attack ranged touch attacks and 3 bows. A bit rough in the beginning, but once you get to level 5, things jumps a massive level. Aasimar mercs is pretty strong when you don't have to care about skill points (since the MC is the skill monkey Inquisitor/Ranger, and he is backed up by the Elf AT).

 

[Yosharian]

I cannot overstate how much of a game changer this mod is, with one button I have my entire mod setup cast within around 30 seconds, and you can set up your long, medium and short duration buffs on different profiles so you can access them easily

 

[Average Manatee]

What are you spending so much time buffing with? I basically just cast heroism/greater heroism. In fact most of the time it's Linzi casting her AoE heroism so its only one click anyway.

Once in a while for a very tough fight I'll cast blur/displacement/shield of faith but that's like <10s buff time.

 

[Yosharian]

What are you spending so much time buffing with? I basically just cast heroism/greater heroism. In fact most of the time it's Linzi casting her AoE heroism so its only one click anyway.

Once in a while for a very tough fight I'll cast blur/displacement/shield of faith but that's like <10s buff time.

Long Duration Buffs

• Destroyer & Deadeye: Mutagen on self
  
• Destroyer & Deadeye: Echolocation on self, Kensei & Emberlock
  
• Hydromancer & Temptress: Echolocation on self
  
• Emberlock: Magic Vestment on Destroyer & Kensei
  
• Emberlock: Touch of Glory on Kensei, Hydromancer & Temptress
  
• Destroyer & Deadeye: Delay Poison on all (shared duty)

Medium Duration Buffs

• Kensei: Mirror Image on self (also Frightful Aspect & Seamantle if you have them)
  
• Destroyer & Deadeye: Death Ward on all (shared duty)
  
• Emberlock: Archon's Aura & Frightful Aspect & Fiery Body on self
  
• Destroyer: Shield on self & Kensei
  
• Deadeye: Shield on self & Emberlock
  
• Hydromancer & Temptress: Shield & Mirror Image on self
  
• Destroyer: Legendary Proportions on self
  
• Temptress: Good Hope centred on self
  
• Hydromancer: Fiery Body & Seamantle on self

Short Duration Buffs

• Destroyer: Displacement on self & Kensei & Emberlock
  
• Hydromancer: Displacement on self & Temptress & Deadeye
  
• Temptress: Haste centred on self
  
• Hydromancer: Firebrand centred on self
  
• Destroyer & Deadeye: Transformation on self

 

[Average Manatee]

Not sure what your party looks like but for me shield/magical vestment ends up not stacking with what I have on anyway. I also don't bother with defensive buffs for casters who are in the back. Sure you can get them to like 30 AC but its so rare for enemies to even go after them that I don't see the point.

I'm actually surprised that you're only using Good Hope rather than Greater Heroism, given that you're using all those other buffs and Greater Heroism is arguably the strongest buff in the game. It's always the first thing I spend my level 6 spell slots on.

Is Echolocation something that lets you bypass concealment? How are you casting it on other people?

 

[Sarathiour]

How are you casting it on other people?

Alchemist infuse elixir.

 

[Yosharian]

Not sure what your party looks like but for me shield/magical vestment ends up not stacking with what I have on anyway. I also don't bother with defensive buffs for casters who are in the back. Sure you can get them to like 30 AC but its so rare for enemies to even go after them that I don't see the point.

I'm actually surprised that you're only using Good Hope rather than Greater Heroism, given that you're using all those other buffs and Greater Heroism is arguably the strongest buff in the game. It's always the first thing I spend my level 6 spell slots on.

Is Echolocation something that lets you bypass concealment? How are you casting it on other people?

1) Magical Vestment stacks with everything. Shield is because none of my party uses shields, although shields are good for tanks (because you can equip a shield then cast Magical Vestment (Shield) on top of the shield bonus) none of my melees are pure tank.
2) I normally wouldn't bother with Shield on my back liners either, just Mirror Image, but since I have the computer casting them for me....
3) I don't have enough casts / day to use Greater Heroism yet, I only have like 4 spell slots and I want to use them for Mass Cacophonous Call, I will start using it at some point, probably next level - also I hadn't been using it because it was a pain to cast it individually compared to just casting GH, but that changes now with this mod
4) Echolocation bypasses all concealment providing you are within range and I cast it on allies using Alchemist Infusion, it's also meant to protect against gaze attacks though I haven't tested it against Wild Hunt yet

 

[Average Manatee]

How are you casting it on other people?

Alchemist infuse elixir.

Yeah, guessed as much shortly after posting. Would be a really nice buff to have for some fights but I stick to the standard NPCs and am not a fan of the Jubi bomb throwing thing.

1) Magical Vestment stacks with everything. Shield is because none of my party uses shields, although shields are good for tanks (because you can equip a shield then cast Magical Vestment (Shield) on top of the shield bonus) none of my melees are pure tank.

Huh, that's news to me. Didn't seem like it should stack with anything from the description. So it's literally +10 AC that lasts forever if you have both a shield and armor on and cast it twice, even if your armor is already +5? That's nuts.

EDIT: It seems w/ shields it sets the enhancement to +1 to +5, but with armor it always stacks with everything. I'm assuming its a bug and should be setting enhancement bonus for armor the same way. Also the armor version works on pets which makes no sense, but hey, even more stupidly powerful pet build things to spam. Game should be called Petfinder: Good boy maker.

 

[gurugeorge]

I buff all the things - why leave money on the table? With the various buff automation options available, there's really no excuse not to use the tools that have been given to you.

Although having said that, there's an art in eking out the medium and short-term buffs on a just-in-time basis, and it's also more immersive.

IOW, long term buffs automated at the start of a zone is a given. Then if it's a dense zone with a high frequency of mobs, medium-term buffs too, then short term buffs in the course of combats, on an as-needed basis. But if it's a more relaxed or more exploratory zone, long-term will do, and both medium and short can be as-needed.

On the other hand if it's a proper final dungeon with a rich sequence of tough groups, you can sometimes pull out all the stops, have all three sets automated at the start, then you can plow through to the boss very quickly, and maybe only have to refresh some of the short-term buffs by the time you get to him/her/it.

But ofc it all partly depends on the difficulty too, on mob types, on whether you're playing RTwP or turn-based (or a mix of both, which is one of the things I most enjoy about the Pathfinder games) and on the given Vancian rest/rations economy.

 

[Average Manatee]

Something like ~80% of zones are only a few fights, and even in some of the longer ones its only 1 or 2 encounters where enemies have enough AB to reliably hit your frontline (and for those encounters you're often better off with a disabling spell rather than a full buff routine). Therefore buffing for many of those areas seems like a waste to me. In fact I regularly clear significant portions of chapters under exhaustion to avoid wasting time for rest. Did the whole Varnhold Vanishing chapter yesterday and only needed 1 rest (needed death ward available for that ass optional encounter with a million level drain effects Vordakai's Tomb).

 

[Cael]

Paizhit fanboi: Owlcat and paizhit are great! They make a challenging RPG tactical buff game! Woohoo!

Also Paizhit fanboi: I have to exploit bugs in order to make viable characters!

 

[Cael]

Something like ~80% of zones are only a few fights, and even in some of the longer ones its only 1 or 2 encounters where enemies have enough AB to reliably hit your frontline (and for those encounters you're often better off with a disabling spell rather than a full buff routine). Therefore buffing for many of those areas seems like a waste to me. In fact I regularly clear significant portions of chapters under exhaustion to avoid wasting time for rest. Did the whole Varnhold Vanishing chapter yesterday and only needed 1 rest (needed death ward available for that ass optional encounter with a million level drain effects Vordakai's Tomb).

I only rested once in Vordakai's Tomb in my first run. My fault as I ran out of camping supplies just as I hit the Valley of the Dead and didn't realise. It wasn't as bad as people made it out to be when you have animal companions to take the draining hits. That was where I got the idea of this 5 AC run.

 

[Desiderius]

Paizhit fanboi: Owlcat and paizhit are great! They make a challenging RPG tactical buff game! Woohoo!

Also Paizhit fanboi: I have to exploit bugs in order to make viable characters!

They're not big on mere viability.

You want some help with viability on any class any difficulty without exploits hit me up.

Never too late to start. Sucking less is the only lasting cure for your kind of butthurt.

 

[Yosharian]

EDIT: It seems w/ shields it sets the enhancement to +1 to +5, but with armor it always stacks with everything. I'm assuming its a bug and should be setting enhancement bonus for armor the same way. Also the armor version works on pets which makes no sense, but hey, even more stupidly powerful pet build things to spam. Game should be called Petfinder: Good boy maker.

Are you sure? In Wrath it definitely adds a +1-5 bonus on top of your shield bonus.

 

[Sarathiour]

By the way, I feel like the pet strat got indirectly nerfed in wrath by the sheer amount of fight you have to take in small corridor, and you can easley get fucked by being bottlenecked. I had to reload a couple of fight because bismuth fat ass got in the way.

 

[Serus]

Enjoy buffing 5 pets lategame lmao, enough to drive anyone mad. I only had three and I gave up.

I have made what I think is pretty much the perfect Kingmaker party, requires mods though

Probably has been said but i missed. There are mods that automate buffing afaik.

 

[Haplo]

By the way, I feel like the pet strat got indirectly nerfed in wrath by the sheer amount of fight you have to take in small corridor, and you can easley get fucked by being bottlenecked. I had to reload a couple of fight because bismuth fat ass got in the way.

Leopard for the win!

 

[Daidre]

Leopard for the win!

There is a very nice size comparison guide on Steam https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2594856263, so smallest pet are Horse and Wolf, not even a Leopard. It is for the Wrath, but I do not think old pets changed since Kingmaker.

 

[Haplo]

Leopard for the win!

There is a very nice size comparison guide on Steam https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2594856263, so smallest pet are Horse and Wolf, not even a Leopard. It is for the Wrath, but I do not think old pets changed since Kingmaker.

Hmm, I wonder if that's still true. My Dearan has a wolf and he seems a lot bigger then the leopard. Maybe just bulkier. But I guess I will need to compare their selection circles.
Also not convinced about the horse. Its the only pet that grows in size with Animal Growth - and its a buff I definately don't want to skip on Strenght animals. When Huge its definately big.

 

[Serus]

Leopard for the win!

There is a very nice size comparison guide on Steam https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2594856263, so smallest pet are Horse and Wolf, not even a Leopard. It is for the Wrath, but I do not think old pets changed since Kingmaker.

That's for WotR, is it the same for Kingmaker? In theory should be but knowing Owlcat programming prowess of late... Also why is that horse is the only one that doesn't grow in size? I didn't play WotR long enough to know.