KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Sacred82]

lol 800 MB beginners path for KP, they were 1~2 GB till now

1.2 GB? 800MB? *looks at that fucking tiny changelog*


how do they do it

 

[Luckmann]

The hotfix introduced a new bug for me: Jubilost can't rest anymore. As in, when the party rests/camps, he remains fatigued. Cooking also doesn't affect him. Going back a few saves.

Tell him to stop dipping into the meth stash.

 

[Drowed]

1.2 GB? 800MB? *looks at that fucking tiny changelog*


how do they do it

Apparently, this is also Unity's fault. Some developers have said that this engine doesn't seem to be able to make minor adjustments without having to repack everything. So, you changed a comma and two words? Congratulations, here is a 600mb patch for you.

 

[RegionalHobo]

The hotfix introduced a new bug for me: Jubilost can't rest anymore. As in, when the party rests/camps, he remains fatigued. Cooking also doesn't affect him. Going back a few saves.

time to find that amulet that makes your character immune to fatigue lmao

 

[Luckmann]

1.2 GB? 800MB? *looks at that fucking tiny changelog*


how do they do it

Apparently, this is also Unity's fault. Some developers have said that this engine doesn't seem to be able to make minor adjustments without having to repack everything. So, you changed a comma and two words? Congratulations, here is a 600mb patch for you.

This is presumably also why there's so many fucking .assets-files, often with what at least appears as duplicate files inside of them. I suspect that they basically have to switch out or completely repack one or more of them (or add new ones) every time they patch.

 

[Jasede]

The hotfix introduced a new bug for me: Jubilost can't rest anymore. As in, when the party rests/camps, he remains fatigued. Cooking also doesn't affect him. Going back a few saves.

time to find that amulet that makes your character immune to fatigue lmao

Fortunately I already have it. I missed it the first time because it's just fucking chilling in some random barrel.

56 hours played so far. Me before bath: fuck it, it's kind of bugged, gonna do something else. Me after bath: man, I really want to make a CE wizard with the tranny portrait. And maybe do more chapter 3. And a Paladin would be fun to play. Damn, I wonder if I can solo the game too with that Druid build posted earlier...? Game is loading in background as I write.

Also Nok-Nok doing like 300 damage a round. Great because all the enemies are HP sponge magical beasts, perfect for a blender.

Man, I really like how this campaign uses fey and magical beasts, which you often don't see a lot. You might take Favored Enemy: Fey or Magical Beasts and never see one in some campaigns, or maybe just 1-2 total.

 

[Shadenuat]

I see they returned to the "no fix without collapsing your whole game in some other twisted way" policy

 

[Chippy]

I installed a new cooling system recently to mitigate the blowtorch effect this game has on your video card whenever you open a menu. It worked, but now I'm starting to see the video card temp creep up again after the latest patch (about a third higher than they were before the patch). So I realise this is a Unity specific problem - but I don't suppose Owlcat are in a position to ever do anything about it?.

I can play much more demanding games without this level of stress being applied to the card. And it is just on the menu - as the temps drop as soon as they're closed.

The HBS game has the same problem, with complaints from users that their graphics cards have been compromised because of the heat. It definitely seems to be a Unity problem if this game is also exhibiting the same behaviour.

I installed a new cooling system recently to mitigate the blowtorch effect this game has on your video card whenever you open a menu. It worked, but now I'm starting to see the video card temp creep up again after the latest patch (about a third higher than they were before the patch). So I realise this is a Unity specific problem - but I don't suppose Owlcat are in a position to ever do anything about it?.

I can play much more demanding games without this level of stress being applied to the card. And it is just on the menu - as the temps drop as soon as they're closed.

The HBS game has the same problem, with complaints from users that their graphics cards have been compromised because of the heat. It definitely seems to be a Unity problem if this game is also exhibiting the same behaviour.

It does, and yeah, it's a Unity thing. I can hear all the fans go wild when I run PF:K.

Remember a few years ago when we were told that Unity was this great tech leap forward that enabled developers to create games that much more quickly?. I would have thought that after Sword Coast Legends, Satellite Reign, W2, POE and probably a few other games I've failed to mention that the people behind this engine would take some responsibility.

Russians are all sitting there atm moment thinking: "What is this heating problem they are referring to?".

 

[Jasede]

No, it's true. It's the same as any framework/engine: you trade usability (for the developer) for technical stability. Now ideally the framework would be amazing so this doesn't happen but in practice this doesn't happen.

Have you noticed how your computer 'didn't get any faster' in the last 15 years? Yes, the hardware is way, way faster! No doubt. But the /frameworks/, the APIs used, the engines, those all got worse. Why? Because with faster hardware, people focused on making them easy to use, easy to code in, rather than optimize them for hardware.

Benefit: way more people can now make games. Anyone can, just pickup Game Maker or learn Unity. Yes, you still have to learn some things, but you don't have to learn which memory address you need to write things into to display things on your screen. Layers upon layers upon layers of abstraction do this for you now.

Drawback: it's fucking slow. Our modern browsers are slow (even Chrome), our OSs are slow (even Linux to an extent; many utilities and applications use horribly bloated frameworks), our Internet is horribly slow thanks to bloated node and JS shit, and so on.

Here's a real market opportunity: make an engine that's as easy to use as Unity, but give it all the stability and polish of something made in-house by an experienced 3D team, like the guys from ID.

Caveat: anyone who has the time, money and talent to do this is not making games, they're working in the Airforce or in weapons or space technology, or more commonly, car computing.


To illustrate: now that CPUs are super fast, you don't have to worry about writing code 'well'. It doesn't matter if you are using O(n) vs O(log n) operations because it's 'fast enough'. People put loops inside loops inside loops now because 'the compiler will fix it / hardware is fast enough'. This is why everything now is HORRIBLY SLOW but you don't notice because hardware makes up for it. If software was coded as hardware-close as it was 20 years ago... we'd be in the space age now.

Just imagine: there's currently no technical reason websites with JS couldn't load shit instantly. There's no reason Windows takes longer than ten seconds to boot, not anymore. There's most definitely no reason savegame should load longer than five seconds tops.

 

[Jasede]

I am sorry for double-post.

I want you to know I work as a programmer. We're carrying with us technological debt from 20+ years ago. Things are simply /too big/ now to change. It's never going to change. It will always remain this slow until we get quantum computers. Then things will be fast - briefly. But after that, they will be slow again. Why?

Because all this shit now is coded so as to minimize costs (developer time) -- that means all this shit is easy to use, but slow when used, in hopes that it doesn't matter because hardware is 'good enough'. We designed BILLIONS of horrible abstraction layers to make things easier for young developers but now all these things are gigantic, quaking towers that will one day crash and we'll have to completely rethink the way we design software. Right now, saving time / cost = king. Everything is done so as to make it so code can be pushed out fast.

 

[Luckmann]

Remember a few years ago when we were told that Unity was this great tech leap forward that enabled developers to create games that much more quickly?. I would have thought that after Sword Coast Legends, Satellite Reign, W2, POE and probably a few other games I've failed to mention that the people behind this engine would take some responsibility.

One thing does not invalidate another. Unity may have issues, yes, but to a lot of people, that trade-off is worth it, not just in time and effort, but simply in getting "in there" and getting your shit done. I'm not saying it's wrong to shit on Unity - Unity is shit - but it still still serves it's purpose and while we bitch about how much better it would be if you just wrote your own code from the ground up (which is almost universally true, especially if the code is kept tight and neat and clear to everyone involved), there's actual developers getting actual work done making actual games.

You win some, you lose some. It's an imperfect world and all that.

Edit: Jasede also makes some great points, which touches upon something I was discussing with an acquaintance just the other day. These shitty loading times everyone is getting in oh-so-many games now, despite having SSD's? I am fully convinced that because we have SSD's now, much of the incentive to actually reduce load times have disappeared, meaning that they only optimize to a point of 'good enough'. This is also true when it comes to the ballooning sizes of games in general - since we now have much bigger harddrives and greater bandwidth, it matters a lot less to most whether a game is 1 GB or 10 GB.

Due to technological progress, we've become progressively more wasteful in every regard. This obviously also applies to software development and calculations of time vs. effort.

 

[Jasede]

Also, this is BROKEN AS SHIT: Jubilost, with the "extracts on party members" can cast SHIELD ON OTHERS!!!!!!!
Shield is an OP as fuck spell! It's balanced by not being able to be cast on others. As a Fighter you would always want a shield potion ready. Being able to use it on others is AMAZING!

 

[Lagole Gon]

Also, this is BROKEN AS SHIT: Jubilost, with the "extracts on party members" can cast SHIELD ON OTHERS!!!!!!!
Shield is an OP as fuck spell! It's balanced by not being able to be cast on others. As a Fighter you would always want a shield potion ready. Being able to use it on others is AMAZING!

Again. Remove ALCHEMISTS.

This class is BROKEN and the idea of someone passing the bottle during the battle is pure popamole. And don't get me started on six seconds molotovs.

 

[Jasede]

Look at this avatar of destruction! Linzi isn't even singing yet and he's doing 20 damage a hit WITHOUT his retarded pure sneak attack.
And it's :balanced: ! Will save = 1. They just need to cast Charm on him and we're all dead.

 

[fantadomat]

Most likely the published didn't expected the game to make a return on investment and decided to push it out the doors. 2-3 months would have polished the game and fixed most of the patches,for the cut contend it would have needed maybe 6 month total.

Meh who knows, I have heard bad things about Deep Silver.

Well they are mix of great games and some epic shit. They were publishers of Kingdom come and Metro games.

Its not the games, the bad things you hear are purely about publisher specific things.

I don't really care about that shit as long as they push out good games that i like. Those things concern devs.

 

[Jasede]

What's the point of Inspire Greatness when Inspire Courage scales, but Greatness doesn't?

 

[TT1]

So, I decided to go through the kickstarter campaign, every update, every video, to understand what was left out of the game and what could possibly come as DLC, in the future. There are things that I dont know if they are in the game, so please help me here:

In the game:

- Camping
- Magus
- Extra chapter
- Archetypes
- Extra Companion (Nok Nok)
- silly cheat codes

Doubts:

- Kingdom as a companion

(skeletons as waiters in the pubs?)


- 14 regions you can add to the kingdom
- You can restore artifacts and assign them to museums, to help improve the kingdom
- Blowgun
- Nunchaku
- Dart
- Bola
- Siangham
- Shuriken
- Star knife


DLC:

So, at the risk of spoiling my update: even before DLC, we're planning to carry the adventure to places the Adventure Path doesn't go (but it's a natural extension), so veteran players have something new to experience.

Over the coming months after release, we are going to release several DLC packs. The first three of these DLC packs will be in the first season pass. You will also be able to buy each DLC on its own when it releases. We will release more information about the contents and estimated release dates of each DLC at a later date. Don't worry, all will be revealed before the release of Pathfinder: Kingmaker!

As for the pricing, our Imperial Edition has everything contained in the Royal Edition, as well as the season pass. Because of that, it costs $15 more than the Royal Edition. The season pass is going to contain about $40 worth of DLC. Those of you not interested in the Imperial Edition will be able to purchase a standalone season pass when we get a little closer to release. As mentioned before, each DLC will also be available for purchase on its own.

One more thing: we are giving the first season pass to every backer, who pledged $95 or more for our beta tiers on Kickstarter or $110 on our crowdfunding-preorders for free as a thank you for helping us beta-test our early builds! So if you're one of our beta supporters, there's no need for you to buy the season pass - you'll be getting it from us, free of charge!

 

[Sharpedge]

The game needs serious work after Pitax... It is almost enough to convince me its an ironic joke on us by the devs when the plot of the main story is basically, "as time goes by more bugs spawn and the kingdom falls apart." Also, the card system for kingdom management is becoming an absolute abomination. In my opinion, they should have 3 sub menus, 1 for "Research into the Nature of Curses," 1 for, "Trade Agreements," and then 1 for other kingdom management paraphernalia. It is next to impossible to find the right card when your hand looks like this:

 

[Luckmann]

Also, this is BROKEN AS SHIT: Jubilost, with the "extracts on party members" can cast SHIELD ON OTHERS!!!!!!!
Shield is an OP as fuck spell! It's balanced by not being able to be cast on others. As a Fighter you would always want a shield potion ready. Being able to use it on others is AMAZING!

Working as intended. It is one of the major benefits of the Alchemist's Infusion Discovery in the PnP as well.

 

[Chippy]

I am sorry for double-post.

I want you to know I work as a programmer. We're carrying with us technological debt from 20+ years ago. Things are simply /too big/ now to change. It's never going to change. It will always remain this slow until we get quantum computers. Then things will be fast - briefly. But after that, they will be slow again. Why?

Because all this shit now is coded so as to minimize costs (developer time) -- that means all this shit is easy to use, but slow when used, in hopes that it doesn't matter because hardware is 'good enough'. We designed BILLIONS of horrible abstraction layers to make things easier for young developers but now all these things are gigantic, quaking towers that will one day crash and we'll have to completely rethink the way we design software. Right now, saving time / cost = king. Everything is done so as to make it so code can be pushed out fast.

Appreciate the insight. Funny you should mention cars, I won't go off topic, but the situatiuon is similiar - you have the ECU controlling all major components of a car, so I need to replace a £120 part, but have been told that it's tied to the ECU and the Car manufacturer wants £2800 to install it with the ECU. So all of the expense invested in reducing labour costs for the company (by creating ECU/diagnostic software) is shifted onto the consumer, which then alters their buying habits and finances.

But in much the same way as people arn't paying attention to cars, I expect the same mentality applies to PC's. How many people would stop playing a game even if a piece of software monitored the wear it was inflicting on their hardware, and the reduced life expectancy associated with running it?.

 

[Luckmann]

... the idea of someone passing the bottle during the battle is pure popamole.

I agree, it should be like in the PnP, where you can actually hand them out before battle even starts, as if they are potions.

 

[Reinhardt]

Look at this avatar of destruction! Linzi isn't even singing yet and he's doing 20 damage a hit WITHOUT his retarded pure sneak attack.
And it's :balanced: ! Will save = 1. They just need to cast Charm on him and we're all dead.

Pffft. 30 speed. My monk have 60 at lvl 10 without haste. Good luck to charmed Nok-Nok trying to catch me.

 

[Gord]

I see they returned to the "no fix without collapsing your whole game in some other twisted way" policy

What did they break this time? My Steam Client is in offline mode, so I can avoid the patch for now...

 

[Jasede]

Just had to quit because the "disarm trap" sound effect got stuck in a loop and kept playing, forever. Even in the main menu and after reloading. And even while loading.

...

Now it's downloading something.

Edit: finished... same version as before, 15B. ???

 

[vazha]

Look at this avatar of destruction! Linzi isn't even singing yet and he's doing 20 damage a hit WITHOUT his retarded pure sneak attack.
And it's :balanced: ! Will save = 1. They just need to cast Charm on him and we're all dead.

That's two rogue lvls too many. At that point he should be Knifemaster 8/vivi 2, with shield and protection from arrwos on. 33 ac on Nok-Nok is a travesty. Remove armor, get some nifty bracers, cast magical vestments on him. 40 AC.