Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[InD_ImaginE]

There are some signs of promising new systems and content but overall feel is worse than Alpha at this point. I'll play again tonight (had to restart because class non-functional) and now on lvl four with Preservationist) but if things don't improve will give it a month or two.

Yeah, the reason I am playing a KM class is because I just want to compare content for Aeon in Alpha vs Beta. Seems the army battle also have some game breaking bug from people in Discord so that's one thing to be careful about. Maybe make a Hard Save on start of Chapter 2 and 3.

I just can't imagine a feasible reason for any character to want to go for either Swarm or Demon, although maybe in the latter case it can be justified by portraying it as the PC giving into his rage one too many times akin to some Khornate warrior in Warhammer and thus sealing his fate in that regard.

Swarm is something, that roleplay wise, supposed to be a revenge story and rage against the world thing from what the devs are saying (and probably the leak). Certainly not of my taste but it is something that is entirely a valid motivation. Note that Swarm is available in later chapters instead so narrative-wise something must have happened.

In spite of my bias to Good or Neutral aligned RP, Demon is also something interesting that I will try to play. Fighting evil with evil is a very old trope with cautionary tales that the end end doesn't usually justify the means. I am inclined of trying to RP TN or CN Demon playthrough in the full game or maybe later in the beta.

In some sense I also rank Demon better than Lich and Swarm in Evil department. See, Swarm is a conscious choice. You get betrayed so in last-ditch effort to spite everything in the world you become all-consuming Swarm (or probably I dunno how olcat will handle this lol). Lich being LE means that you also consciously choose to do horrific evil for power. There is no impulse here, all of them are choices and the choices made consciously.

Spoiler

To get one of Lich exclusive companion you need to taunt an old guy about the death of his beloved mentee. Kill him and force him to submit through Necromancy

Demon on the other hand is kinda more.. poetic? I think? It is of course entirely possible to RP batshit power-hungry CE from the start but the flavor text for what I see in Ch1 and Ch2 is about how you are failing in fighting the inner demon within you and succumbing to evil. Even if the end result is still Evil and CE at that, there is something more tragic of trying to make non-CE character falling to evil. I think the interaction with your inner demon usually has a Will Save even which is a nice touch.

 

[Shadenuat]

Ecoterrorist? I'm not sure what the Swarm is ideologically.

Sid Meiers Alpha Centauri, what is it to be with the one, and how would one keep their persona in it if it's possible, evolution above self etc.

system shock 2

that too

 

[Seari]

I like the idea of you becoming the thing you hate, makes for a good story.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

the flavor text for what I see in Ch1 and Ch2 is about how you are failing in fighting the inner demon within you and succumbing to evil.

Pretty much:

 

[Shadenuat]

rage against the world thing from what the devs are saying

yeah definitely for me
or as Miyazaki said, can't wait until tsunami washes japan and humanity away

 

[Delterius]

Ecoterrorist? I'm not sure what the Swarm is ideologically.

Swarm is the school shooter Mythic Path.

But is it like emotional, or just the inevitable force of entropy consuming everything?

It's definitely meant as a force of nature. Literally a swarm of bugs that just eat things. The late game paths - Legend, Gold Dragon and Swarm - are more of a conscious choice. And considering Deskari is Swarm, I'd say it is at best 'fire against fire' to its logical and irredeemable conclusion and at worst the exact thing Sjukob was wary of, the PC is just a disgusting person. I really meant it when I said its the school shooter path.

 

[Lacrymas]

Does the demon invasion warrant such an extreme reaction like giving yourself over to the Swarm to stop it, though? If we think about this as if we were actually that character in that situation. It seems like all the evil paths are somehow worse than the demon invasion?

 

[Desiderius]

It's definitely meant as a force of nature. Literally a swarm of bugs that just eat things. The late game paths - Legend, Gold Dragon and Swarm - are more of a conscious choice. And considering Deskari is Swarm, I'd say it is at best 'fire against fire' to its logical and irredeemable conclusion and at worst the exact thing Sjukob was wary of, the PC is just a disgusting person. I really meant it when I said its the school shooter path.

This is what I meant about Gygax omitting the ontological axis. Being/Nonbeing is prior to Good/Evil or Order/Chaos. Swarm is (perhaps unwittingly) Nonbeing.

 

[Deadass]

redpill me on the legend mythic path

 

[Delterius]

Does the demon invasion warrant such an extreme reaction like giving yourself over to the Swarm to stop it, though?

I don't think so. Its at that point that your character embraces the 'strayan shitposting fully. Like when an american goes beyond the pale and invents the Outback Steakhouse. And now I forgot where I was going with this analogy.

I do maintain that the way base mythics are structured the game is all about growing from your character's traits and circumstance into maybe something cunt-ish (Demon), something cunt-lite (Trickster) or something nice and reasonable (Azata friendship powers of invincibility). And that only the Lich and Swarm paths are conscious choices towards evil.

 

[Delterius]

redpill me on the legend mythic path

nobody knows atm but there are indications that your radical centrism unites the world (republicans and democrats) against the destructive people (trump supporters)

 

[Salvo]

redpill me on the legend mythic path

Can't do that without spoiling a lot of stuff. But basically you renounce your powers.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

redpill me on the legend mythic path

Dunno how accurate these posts are, but from /vrpg/:

Spoiler

And in the Legend path, Areelu kidnaps you and tries to force you to take the Mythic power back. She tries to convince you, but if that fails, she'll outright bribe you.

Value": "\" You continue to persist \ ", {n} - Arilu says detachedly. {/ N} \" I have to offer you for the last time - give up. Get your strength back. Stop shredding your own soul. If all my reasonable arguments do not convince you, I am ready to present you with several unique artifacts from my collection. You will not find anything equal to them. \ "},

{"Key": "e1e5b236-e89b-40bb-ae72-0c1dc65d7259","Value": "{n} Arilu wants to say something else, but only purses her lips and looks at you with cold fury - and, oddly enough, anxiety. And immediately disappears just as silently. {/ N}"},

Spoiler

The "final choice" isn't written yet I think, lich has six events to gain troops, legend has only five. The last two are some Garundi guy with a ring full of battle spirits that you can use, or tell him to keep the ring and fight as a soldier. Then your advisors all tell you they've brought in a bunch of their own troops.

There are demon worshipers and saints, necromancers and revolutionaries of Elysium, drunken fools and wise dragons. They have nothing in common, except for one thing - they like Golarion, and they want to help protect it.

"It is amazing to see how mortals of such dissimilar convictions do not attack each other, but quietly wait at the gate, while you announce the conditions on which they will be allowed to join your campaign."

And that only the Lich and Swarm paths are conscious choices towards evil.

And Devil.

 

[Delterius]

And that only the Lich and Swarm paths are conscious choices towards evil.

And Devil.

Radical Bureaucracism is not evil.

Its merely amoral.

 

[Shadenuat]

but laying terrible waste and natures wrath on all humanity and civilization and consuming it all for the world then born anew and beautiful is not evil. ..right?

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Does the demon invasion warrant such an extreme reaction like giving yourself over to the Swarm to stop it, though? If we think about this as if we were actually that character in that situation. It seems like all the evil paths are somehow worse than the demon invasion?

I doubt that being a Swarm has anything to do with stopping the demon. It seems like a FUCK IT ALL BURN ALL BRIDGES option. If you read the flavor text in KS there is only revenge themed blurb there.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

And that only the Lich and Swarm paths are conscious choices towards evil.

And Devil.

Radical Bureaucracism is not evil.

Its merely amoral.

Not according to the in-universe alignments of the different planes, but yeah.

 

[Desiderius]

I doubt that being a Swarm has anything to do with stopping the demon. It seems like a FUCK IT ALL BURN ALL BRIDGES option. If you read the flavor text in KS there is only revenge themed blurb there.

Stopping everything does in fact stop the Demon too. Burning it all down includes both yourself and your putative tormentor.

Devil is not radical Bureaucrat (that's another version of Nonbeing). Devil is corrupt bureaucrat which may be most profound evil of all since it twists and betrays the Good.

 

[Salvo]

redpill me on the legend mythic path

Dunno how accurate these posts are, but from /vrpg/:

Spoiler

And in the Legend path, Areelu kidnaps you and tries to force you to take the Mythic power back. She tries to convince you, but if that fails, she'll outright bribe you.

Value": "\" You continue to persist \ ", {n} - Arilu says detachedly. {/ N} \" I have to offer you for the last time - give up. Get your strength back. Stop shredding your own soul. If all my reasonable arguments do not convince you, I am ready to present you with several unique artifacts from my collection. You will not find anything equal to them. \ "},

{"Key": "e1e5b236-e89b-40bb-ae72-0c1dc65d7259","Value": "{n} Arilu wants to say something else, but only purses her lips and looks at you with cold fury - and, oddly enough, anxiety. And immediately disappears just as silently. {/ N}"},

Spoiler

The "final choice" isn't written yet I think, lich has six events to gain troops, legend has only five. The last two are some Garundi guy with a ring full of battle spirits that you can use, or tell him to keep the ring and fight as a soldier. Then your advisors all tell you they've brought in a bunch of their own troops.

There are demon worshipers and saints, necromancers and revolutionaries of Elysium, drunken fools and wise dragons. They have nothing in common, except for one thing - they like Golarion, and they want to help protect it.

"It is amazing to see how mortals of such dissimilar convictions do not attack each other, but quietly wait at the gate, while you announce the conditions on which they will be allowed to join your campaign."

And that only the Lich and Swarm paths are conscious choices towards evil.

And Devil.

We already know some endings for Lich, Swarm, Azata and Aeon.

 

[Ontopoly]

So they put in a bug lady and barely make her a bug lady. They put in a fox lady and her portrait doesn't show any fox features in it. What's the point of making these alien\weird companions if they barely embrace it? Either way, add fox girl to the degenerate romance list.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

So they put in a bug lady and barely make her a bug lady. They put in a fox lady and her portrait doesn't show any fox features in it. What's the point of making these alien\weird companions if they barely embrace it? Either way, add fox girl to the degenerate romance list.

 

[Salvo]

So they put in a bug lady and barely make her a bug lady. They put in a fox lady and her portrait doesn't show any fox features in it. What's the point of making these alien\weird companions if they barely embrace it? Either way, add fox girl to the degenerate romance list.

Agreed with Wenduag, disagree with Nenio (fox lady). She's a Kitsune, which means either full disguise or furry form. Both are represented through a portrait.

 

[Shadenuat]

I thought fox girl had like 2 portraits

 

[Ghulgothas]

Given what's already known about Swarm and who they can add to their buffet I've got a suspicion that once you tie the knot and rise again any pretense of fighting a Crusade for Ultimate Justice goes out the window. I'm willing to bet it becomes nothing more than a revenge flick as you eat up all your former companions and allies who abandoned you before trekkin' off to the Abyss yourself.

Again, if you become Swarm, then no one will stand with you. Games own words.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

By the way, regarding the Lich path:
1. Do we become a Lich by the end of chapter 4?
2. How is being a Lich treated mechanically - does it only change some racial traits?