Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[Alpan]

Having great fun with my PotD solo run - Paladin/Wizard, but feels like it could work just as well with a Fighter instead of Paladin. The new Blood Mage subclass is very powerful.

Just started the DLCs (Beast of Winter up first), this being my first time through them. The base game is a faceroll (the usual difficulty drop off after the Engwithan Digsite applies here as well) but The Messenger fight at the beginning of BoW was surprisingly difficult. Had to come up with a plan to nuke single targets, whereas nothing in the base game had previously warranted such consideration.

 

[Lacrymas]

PoE1's companions were very underdeveloped, with the exception of Durance. I was shocked at how silent they are, it was almost no different from my all-hirelings run. Bioware like to really dig into those companion interjections and interactions, PoE's ones are abysmal by comparison. Bioware's approach works better because you get to know these people better, even if they are cringe, while PoE's didn't get out of the "lore receptacle" category throughout the whole game. Even Durance was more like a concept than a human being, but given his single-minded determination and zeal, it works for him.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Zahua is the best companion in the series

 

[Roguey]

Bioware like to really dig into those companion interjections and interactions, PoE's ones are abysmal by comparison.

Pretty confident that each Pillars companion has more dialogue than every non-romance companion in BG and BG2.

 

[Quillon]

Bioware like to really dig into those companion interjections and interactions, PoE's ones are abysmal by comparison.

Pretty confident that each Pillars companion has more dialogue than every non-romance companion in BG and BG2.

BG companions might have less overall dialogue, but they do have far more interjections and interactions than PoE companions.

DA2 particularly has ridiculous amount of interjections and shite. Whatever great writing tool Obs has, I bet Bioware has/had 2x powerful one The fact that PoE1 has next to none/at least nothing meaningful, shows Obs'/Josh's/Efens' arrogance or ignorance in narrative design. Deadfire woulda been the same if people haven't complained about it.

 

[prodigydancer]

Having great fun with my PotD solo run - Paladin/Wizard, but feels like it could work just as well with a Fighter instead of Paladin. The new Blood Mage subclass is very powerful.

Blood Mage has effectively unlimited spellcasting - as if vanilla Wizard wasn't powerful enough.

On the other hand, Arcane Archer is trash and Ranger pets are still worthless.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Ranger pets were far better in PoE1

strongest member of my party is, by far, Itumaak.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

wanted to use the unityconsole mod to speed up combat but it wasn't updated for 4.1 so I updated it, here's a fixed pillars.py file for anyone that wants it, just replace the contents of your pillars.py file in"Pillars of Eternity II\Plugins\Console\Lib" with it after installling the unity console
https://paste.ee/p/F5RMD

 

[Safav Hamon]

Arcane Archer is trash

There's a bug with scaling that will be fixed in the next patch

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/107559-question-arcane-archer-scaling/?p=2127098.

Arcane Archer is still one of the best subclasses in the game even with the scaling issue. Imbued arrows do more damage and have an accuracy bonus that scales with Arcana, and will also activate multiple times when combined with Frostseeker and driving flight.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Bioware like to really dig into those companion interjections and interactions, PoE's ones are abysmal by comparison.

Pretty confident that each Pillars companion has more dialogue than every non-romance companion in BG and BG2.

How much "character" a companion will have is not determined by the quantity of material.

 

[Haplo]

Btw. soul annihilation ability is OPd as fuck, did the Balanced Man forget to nerf it in his xxx patches?

It WAS hit by the balance bat pretty badly. It used to do like 2x current damage. It's still good, but no longer the no-brainer cipher subclass it was before. Its potency does make the other cipher powers less attractive and tends to lead to ability spam => less interesting gameplay. Smart thing combining it with rogue, as rogue's damage passives amplify the damage.

 

[Lacrymas]

Pretty confident that each Pillars companion has more dialogue than every non-romance companion in BG and BG2.

How much "character" a companion will have is not determined by the quantity of material.

While this is true, I'm arguing Bioware's brute force approach (i.e. quantity) works better when the companion writing is terrible, like it is in PoE and Bioware's games in general. PoE will never hold the Biodrones' attention because the companions are all concept and no humanity, that is fine as long as the writing is great, like it is with Durance, but when it isn't, it creates this very weird ...coldness, I guess, where you feel distanced from the characters. I don't know how to explain it, Bioware's games past NWN (and even NWN a bit) concentrate a lot on the characters as people and that's what most like about them and that's why they keep doing it. Obs did say the companion writing was "the most expensive", but I don't know what they mean by that and I feel like it is too expensive when they are this underdeveloped. Like I said, I was very surprised at how meatless the companions in PoE1 are, and that is without an editor's pass, so I don't know what's going on there.

 

[Nano]

I think it's just what happens when Josh Sawyer is your lead designer. The companions in New Vegas also weren't developed as much as they could've been.

 

[Orma]

Ranger pets are still worthless.

Lol no. They are great flanking tools, not to mention additional frontline.

Ranger's pet becomes a beast even if you just take the first row of relevant passives. Obviously it won't be as good if you ignore the pet completely (might as well pick ghost heart then) as you level up.

Ideally, you support them with exalted endurance, especially if you have multiple pets, and they will swarm and shred everything to pieces.

 

[AwesomeButton]

PoE will never hold the Biodrones' attention because the companions are all concept and no humanity

I'd put it more like this:
"PoE will never hold the anyone's attention because the companions are all concept and no humanity"

Consider Aloth vs BGII Yoshimo. Who has more content, and who is more fun to have in the party.

P.S., nothing wrong with Aloth, I pick him for the comparison because I think he is the best developed character among Deadfire companions

 

[Reinhardt]

Consider Aloth vs BGII Yoshimo. Who has more content, and who is more fun to have in the party.

One is traitor, another is elf. Why would you want either one in your party?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

PoE1 Eder was the best companion from either games
His PoE2 quest was unnecessary & honestly very forced. "oh, my ex-girlfriend just happens to be living in the Deadfire! What a coincidence! Let's go take a break from hunting a god so I can check in on her"

 

[Roguey]

BG companions might have less overall dialogue, but they do have far more interjections and interactions than PoE companions.

Do they?

How much "character" a companion will have is not determined by the quantity of material.

It's a difference in style. Bioware and Avellone write loud people (loud annoying goofballs in Bioware's case). Sawyer insists on quiet people. They're only undeveloped if you think of an introvert as less-than-a-person.

As I've posted before, the key to understanding Sawyer:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/38946-chris-avellone-interview-rpgdot/page-4#entry512628

I can't really write eloquent, fancy prose. It always comes off as false to me. It's probably pretty telling that some of my favorite game dialogue can be found in the Splinter Cell games. Sam Fisher, Grimsdottir, and Lambert sound like people with whom you could actually have a real conversation. Their conversations are pretty dry and grounded. They clearly have personality, but it's pretty subdued, overall.

On the other end of the stealth-action spectrum, we have the Metal Gear Solid games. People like Solid Snake, Revolver Ocelot, and Otacon are very colorful characters with a lot of idiosyncrasies, but when I hear lines like, "Can love bloom on the battlefield, Snake?" I feel like I'm watching Days of Our Lives or Elena.

 

[Riddler]

Consider Aloth vs BGII Yoshimo. Who has more content, and who is more fun to have in the party.

One is traitor, another is elf. Why would you want either one in your party?

If nothing else for turning in his heart to the temple of ilmater for the 200k xp.

 

[Parabalus]

Deadfire's sidekicks with the DLCs are pgood as far as companions go.

The 'proper' NPCs got ruined by the garbage system.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Deadfire's sidekicks (Vatnir, Ydwin, Fassina, Konstanten) are perfect examples of how companions should be designed.

They don't annoy you with their life story or demand you solve their problems. Their personal arcs are interwoven seamlessly with the DLC content.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Ranger pets are still worthless.

Lol no. They are great flanking tools, not to mention additional frontline.

Ranger pet becomes a beast even if you just take the first row of relevant passives. Obviously it won't be as good if you ignore the pet completely (might as well pick ghost heart then) as you level up.

Ideally, you support them with exalted endurance, especially if you have multiple pets, and they will swarm and shred everything to pieces.

Orma is right, the ranger can be built into a weapon of divine punishment which doesn't even need to move on the battlefield, can just one- or two-shot enemies. I usually use the pet as a bodyguard or for blocking the way, and invest heavily into the ranger himself. Especially a ranger/rogue, it's a killing machine.

Bioware style companions are shit in general. That goes for Baldurs Gate 2 as well.

That's beyond any doubt. Yet the argument here is that PoE's companions manage to be less interesting with more writing and voice budget poured into them.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Bioware style companions are shit in general. That goes for Baldurs Gate 2 as well.

when we get buttons back I'm going to rate this 'shit' just so you're aware.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Fact: Bioware has never written a compelling or believable NPC

 

[AwesomeButton]

One is traitor, another is elf. Why would you want either one in your party?

The other is a traitor and an elf. But why you want them - because they are cool guys. I've come to terms with the fact that not everyone in this life is 100% candid with me.

It's a difference in style. Bioware and Avellone write loud people (loud annoying goofballs in Bioware's case). Sawyer insists on quiet people. They're only undeveloped if you think of an introvert as less-than-a-person.

I don't see why Avellone would not be fully capale of writing quiet, "low-key" characters. IMO, he isn't doing that because he knows they don't fit the medium. You need more expressive characters for a computer game where all you see are 3d figurines and 2d portraits, and some voice. Case in point - Pathfinder Kingmaker.

Regarding Sawyer's "quiet people", I've said before and say it again - they are simply not attuned to the kind of game that is an isometric party-based RPG. You can't convey a character subtly by relying only on text, portrait image and voice, with no facial expression. The channels are are simply too limited to for a writer to have his "I'm a movie scriptirer" larping session. Try to convey complex emotional transitions and states through web chat or forum. The medium simply doesn't work that way.

Also, reminder that we need a "Chad Avellone vs Virgin Sawyer" comic.