Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[IHaveHugeNick]

I don't know about the challenge but Psion/Troub is a great combo for team runs. Brings a ton of utility to the team, probably the smoothest PoTD run I've done because you can basically play it with hands off the keyboard lol. It just needs a few scripts - cast blind and sickness, pop pets, shoot couple of times with Spearcaster proning and interrupting opponents, all of that while giving powerful buffs to Maia while she's blowing dudes to pieces.

 

[Savecummer]

The biggest challenge is the lack of class resources and the lack of a way to reset fights. There is a reason why Blood Mage and Priest of Skaen are the top classes for this ordeal. Vela can be protected by simply spamming Withdraw, which is available as a scroll.

listen breh, im really drun k rihg now, but i have noticed form a year of lurking that you have no fucking idea about hwat you are talking about inpoie2 and you have no fucking idea breh
even teh retardd 'why are pets' imballacenced os fucming moronic i odnt know, liie k breh, one pet have groupe wide efeect breh, turn ON OYUR BRIAN BLOBERT
i dont even wanna talk to you

 

[MrMarbles]

What about some of the best itemization ever made for crpgs? Quirky, overpowered item/class combos? Best graphics in quasi-isometric crpgs?
Great central city - hub.

As long as games like BG1&2, AoD, PS:T, IWD, Arcanum, D2:LoD and Dark Souls exist, pillars is nowhere near the top of rpg itemization.

 

[Butter]

D2:LoD

 

[MrMarbles]

D2:LoD

According to our bible and guiding text, the Codex Top 101 CRPGs, D2:LoD now qualifies, and if you don't think they nailed it with Diablo items you are living in a yurt. Edit: As Gregz writes in the review, "the best itemization I have ever seen".

 

[Butter]

Diablo 2 is the reason we have randomized loot pinatas and people grinding the same encounter over and over again praying for the right RNG seed. It's arguably the worst thing to ever happen to RPG itemization.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

dumpsterfire has some of the best itemization in any crpg.
mechanically, it is a very sound game that I have few issues with. It has good crafting(upgrades/consumables only), memorable equipment, some unique classes, etc.,...

the problem is that it is not a good rpg. Many of the dungeons felt very small, exploration(especially discovering islands) was boring, most areas felt like they were designed via painting by numbers(and it turns out that they actually were), the attempt they made in poe at survival elements was ripped out instead of refined, the story has very bad pacing, most companions are poorly written(and those that aren't are the sidekicks), etc.,... I could go on, but it has been written about extensively before.

I rather liked the challenges in upgrading the soulbound weapons btw. Not so much the 'kill x enemies' ones, but the more unique ones like the lightning halberd that required you to sail into a storm.

 

[Piotrovitz]

PoE 1 itemization wasn't also that bad as people are making it.

Sure, there were lackluster weapon types (swords/rapiers/halberds/morning stars) which were nowhere near as good as sabres etc, but isn't that the case in almost every cRPG, where you have some weapon types that are worse than others? IE games anyone?

Everyone is pissing on Soyer balancing everything, but when the poor sap tried to make some fun and OPd weapons (St. Rumbalt etc), people are instantly triggered and crying about poor itemization.

 

[Haplo]

PoE1 Itemization maybe isn't in top 3, but is more then solid also.

 

[Sinatar]

White March has good itemization, vanilla POE1 absolutely does not.

 

[Piotrovitz]

It's not good, but it's also not that bad as people are making it.

Even though some weapon types are lackluster, there's still room for different gear setup on each playthrough.
You don't end up using flail of ages and celestial fury on every run.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Overwhelmingly it has boring items with boring generic upgrades, and some uniques are so bad that sometimes a normal weapon crafted in a shed can be better than a sword carved out of bones of a legendary demon.

 

[abot]

Re: Deadfire Ultimate Challenge
It's hard to get more than 15/20 scrolls of Withdraw during an Ultimate run, so if you don't rely on you/Vela being unkillable (e.g. Priest subclass with Barring Death Door, potion of final stand) or untargettable (e.g. priest Withdraw or single class assassin or single class wizard) you have to be able to control the battle field most of the time. Troubadour + Psion + Grave Calling sabre with Chilling Grave + Grave Bound & skeletons from Many Lives Pass... chant usually can give you such control. Then you need Monastic Unarmed Training to be able to penetrate best armored megabosses (Dorudugan, maybe Ukaizo too). Regardless of class, you can also prolong some out of combat buffs swapping strand of favor/cabalist's gambeson/ooblit

 

[Haplo]

Prolonging buffs by swapping equipment is a bug exploit, though. Hardly has its place in a "challenge" run.

 

[abot]

Studying the other player videos about the challenge and playing it, I have developed the idea that most of so called bugs (and the swapping item cheese first amongst them) are meant to be ways for different classes to approach the challenge, in the same way as half of the apparently no-so useful items accessible e.g. from Thaenic are a way to use these "bugs" (e.g. who would normally spend time on Resounding Call Cacophony Call to Arms in a normal game? or Necklace of the Harvest Moon /Midnight Wish?)
There are many levels of difficulty, more like many games in this game, and the ultimate is the last one, where you discover the hidden meaning of most cheesy items. It is hard to realize this if you are not actually forced to discover them like the ultimate challenge difficulty does, it is something hard to describe until you really try playing it.
It's true, part of these items hidden powers (like the chill fog paralysis) could still be some not-meant-to-be bug, but I would still be not sure about it, because against some bosses not even that can help much alone in my experience, they are mostly a way to win more easily some middle/high level encounters in less time or to keep Vela alive while you find a way to crack the tough nut. Same reasoning with the double item equipping as a way to e.g use the leaping boots to keep Vela safe in a couple SSS Arena encounters or to sneak past some mobs.
One of the meanings of the challenge is perhaps to give you this better insight on this.
If I ever start again the Ultimate Challenge, it will be also to try and discover the inner meaning of things like the Nebula Pet

 

[Savecummer]

I clicked on that Ultimate run with Chanter.
In arena fights, he uses a bug sometimes that moves the girl outside by jumping with those boots, exiting the map, reloading and then he can fight but the girl is outside... Should be disqualifying... Not that it matters...

 

[Haplo]

Studying the other player videos about the challenge and playing it, I have developed the idea that most of so called bugs (and the swapping item cheese first amongst them) are meant to be ways for different classes to approach the challenge, in the same way as half of the apparently no-so useful items accessible e.g. from Thaenic are a way to use these "bugs" (e.g. who would normally spend time on Resounding Call Cacophony Call to Arms in a normal game? or Necklace of the Harvest Moon /Midnight Wish?)
There are many levels of difficulty, more like many games in this game, and the ultimate is the last one, where you discover the hidden meaning of most cheesy items. It is hard to realize this if you are not actually forced to discover them like the ultimate challenge difficulty does, it is something hard to describe until you really try playing it.
It's true, part of these items hidden powers (like the chill fog paralysis) could still be some not-meant-to-be bug, but I would still be not sure about it, because against some bosses not even that can help much alone in my experience, they are mostly a way to win more easily some middle/high level encounters in less time or to keep Vela alive while you find a way to crack the tough nut. Same reasoning with the double item equipping as a way to e.g use the leaping boots to keep Vela safe in a couple SSS Arena encounters or to sneak past some mobs.
One of the meanings of the challenge is perhaps to give you this better insight on this.
If I ever start again the Ultimate Challenge, it will be also to try and discover the inner meaning of things like the Nebula Pet

I object to putting special synergies (maybe unintended) / special features / maybe bugs (like paralyzing weapon effect Chillfogs) in the same bag as equipping/unequipping items to endlessly prolong short lived effects or interrupting game flow by exiting game mid-flight to break combat mode.

One is maybe unintended, maybe intended, maybe a bug. We don't really know. The other is exploiting very clear bugs and breaking game systems.

To be honest, why waste time playing, if your aim is to find cheats that will let you win? Might as well use cheat codes.
Or better, find a game you can "solve" fairly.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Ultimate is already so extreme and restrictive, it's a bit silly to put even more arbitrary restrictions on it. Far as I'm concerned everything goes aside from editing the save files.

 

[abot]

I think the ultimate is so difficult that there are no ways to finish it with classes different form those already having unkillable/untargettable abilities without using cheesy tactics, that's why so far some dubious things have been reviewed and accepted.
Probably you could do it without the prolonging effect with enough experience and tries, but that would require an even longer time and accepting e.g. the prolonging effect/the boots is a way to help people who want to investigate non standard classes.
E.g. Alt+F4 to exit and reload the game on a dialog loop bug has not been accepted because you could find a way to avoid that bug using a different dialog answer, while using the boots to bend what is normally a game mechanic that increases difficulty (having Vela automatically follow you on cell change) at your advantage on reloading has been accepted. Same as understanding that the homicide instinct that you rapidly develop against Vela can be used to trigger and prolong some positive effects hitting her.
In short the ultimate is not meant for people looking for balance in it, because its difficulty is not balanced at all on purpose (but then again, only trying to play it can give you a measure of it), fair is perhaps an option for previous difficulty levels.
I enjoyed it because so far it's been a community effort where several people discovered and shared new tricks then improved and adapted for other people and classes to try the challenge and so on, and in the process I understood some game mechanics and items that I would have probably never investigated. In that I don't even try to judge if something like this may be right or wrong from a game theory view, I just say that I enjoyed it just for what it's been to me, a real challenge

 

[Infinitron]

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I think the ultimate is so difficult that there are no ways to finish it with classes different form those already having unkillable/untargettable abilities without using cheesy tactics, that's why so far some dubious things have been reviewed and accepted.

In short the ultimate is not meant for people looking for balance in it, because its difficulty is not balanced at all on purpose (but then again, only trying to play it can give you a measure of it), fair is perhaps an option for previous difficulty levels.

Yeah, my point exactly. The challenge is created by giving AI massive advantages, it has free stats from POTD, it doesn't need to repair equipment or keep someone alive during fight, and so on. There's no reason why player should avoid some dirty tricks when the entire arrangement isn't a fair one anyway.

 

[Quillon]

ultimate would have been a funny gimmick if the games were popular enough, its an unfunny gimmick

 

[Haplo]

I think the ultimate is so difficult that there are no ways to finish it with classes different form those already having unkillable/untargettable abilities without using cheesy tactics, that's why so far some dubious things have been reviewed and accepted.

In short the ultimate is not meant for people looking for balance in it, because its difficulty is not balanced at all on purpose (but then again, only trying to play it can give you a measure of it), fair is perhaps an option for previous difficulty levels.

Yeah, my point exactly. The challenge is created by giving AI massive advantages, it has free stats from POTD, it doesn't need to repair equipment or keep someone alive during fight, and so on. There's no reason why player should avoid some dirty tricks when the entire arrangement isn't a fair one anyway.

IMO there are dirty tricks... and there are bug exploits / cheats.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Verylittlefishes]

imagine being such a desperate and broken human being to spend 100500 hours to actually complete all of this in TB mode.