Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Quillon]

It can go either way, slow animations or long recovery times.

That's what I'm saying. I don't think recovery times helps with combat seeming too fast, it just balances shit while slower animations help in that front.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[CptMace]

Ofc they shouldn't.

 

[Abu Antar]

I personally want movement speed decreased by, say 20% and a slight decrease in speed of attacks. Not by much, mind you. Maybe 10%.

I'm going to give the beta an hour of play and visit areas that don't have enemies that roflstomp me.

 

[Lacrymas]

That's what I'm saying. I don't think recovery times helps with combat seeming too fast, it just balances shit while slower animations helps in that front.

It will help, as it prevents the ability spam of everyone. The difference between slow animations and slow recovery is how frontloaded the first "wave" of abilities are. Slow recovery = everyone can execute their first move immediately after combat starts, slow animations = everyone has a bit of ramp up time.

 

[Quillon]

I think people are using slow mode in PoE to make animations slower so they can see what's happening, not to wait out more recovery time and I rest my case

 

[Iznaliu]

I think people are using slow mode in PoE to make animations slower so they can see what's happening, not to wait out more recovery time and I rest my case

It's of course possible that people have differing problems which are lumped together under the aegis of "combat is too fast - HELP!". However, of course there needs to be a monolithic explanation for everyone.

 

[Quillon]

I think people are using slow mode in PoE to make animations slower so they can see what's happening, not to wait out more recovery time and I rest my case

It's of course possible that people have differing problems which are lumped together under the aegis of "combat is too fast - HELP!". However, of course there needs to be a monolithic explanation for everyone.

Oh, the age old "you can't speak for everyone!". Let me rephrase: I think majority of people blablabla...

 

[Cross]

There are two big reasons why combat in Pillars is less manageable than it is in the Infinity Engine games.

Movement speed: combatants in Pillars of Eternity sprint, in the Infinity Engine games they march. Movement in Pillars happens too fast for the player to comfortably process it and react to.

Attack ranges: ranged weapons and spells have much shorter ranges in Pillars of Eternity than they do in the Infinity Engine games. In the latter, because of those longer ranges, battles play out over much greater areas and coupled with the slower movement speed, this means that unlike Pillars, battles don't easily descend into a clusterfuck of tightly-grouped together combatants and overlapping spell effects.

 

[Lacrymas]

Also the fact that it's crystal clear how many actions can be performed per round at any given level and you can't exceed that limit. 1 spell every 6 seconds or up to 5 attacks. Haste doubles that which is why it's so overpowered, but it's besides the point. In PoE the individual round is however much your recovery time is, which is a fraction of a second sometimes if you go all out. The lowest possible recovery should be at least 1ish second for physical attacks and 3 seconds for spells. That's including DAoM pots.

 

[Ulfhednar]

I had to think about it for a few days, but I think I figured out what's been bugging me about the new injury system. The reason I don't like the new injury system:

Not all damage counts. If you still have 1 point at the end of the fight, nothing bad happens. It is very binary - you get injured or you don't. It's punishing, but that punishment is arbitrary.

With the old health system, every time you got hurt, you felt it in that slowly decreasing health bar. Getting knocked out had a separate consequence to taking damage. Your character's had too much health - that's what made the system so confusing... you get hurt, you get back up, you get hurt, you get back up, you get hurt, you get backup, over and over until suddenly you can't get back up anymore. It took a long time to reach that point of meaningful feedback. Everything had a consequence, but the consequence was too small.

 

[Maculo]

If anyone is looking for a goofy build, try Assassin/Devoted. It is a crit machine.

I noticed early on that you can find boots that grant leap. I have not looked too hard into itemization just yet.

 

[Abu Antar]

I played around with the beta some more. I'm using the henchmen you get from the start, but I will make my own party later on. Wizards are very disappointing. They are simply boring to play. You have a few spells, use them and then fight with your ranged weapon. The ranged priest is very useful. Healing is very potent in PoE2. He's saved my ass a few times now. There's at least one useful debuff, too. It doesn't hurt that he can also dish out some damage of his own. The fighter doesn't feel as high maintenance as in the first game, which, in my opinion is very good. He seems to be a decent tank, but it does happen that enemies slip through to the backline. The rogue can dish out nice damage, but hoo boy, if they get caught, they're screwed. Escape is very useful.

My character mix is very fun to play. Most enemies killed, most damage dealt and most single target hit at 53 damage. On the other hand, he's the only one that has been knocked down in combat (when I actually won.)

Might 20 (2 from mountain dwarf and 1 from Living Lands: Mercenary background): + 30% damage
Dexterity 17: +21% action speed

Half-Sword (modal: -20 Deflection, +2 Penetration
Proficiency Sword: Higher Penetration at the cost of Deflection
Sneak Attack: +50% Damage with weapons
On the Edge: 100% crit damage with weapons, -20% recovery time, +20% weapon damage
Heating Up: Sneak attack damage increases and recovery decreases when the street fighter is either flanked or bloodied
Looking for a fight: +20% recovery time when not flanked or bloodied (the way I play, this is a non-issue)

Rogue spells (that's how they are referred to in the game)
Crippling strike: Hobble an enemy for 15 seconds or more if it hits
Blinding strike: Blind enemy for 15 seconds or more if it hits

Shattered Pillar: Gain wounds by melee weapon damage inflicted, no wounds from damage received

Swift Strikes: 20% action speed for 10 seconds
Dance of Death: I haven't used it, but it could maybe be useful. It raises accuracy. I think this is based on intellect, but my character only has has 10 Intellect.

I have only fought 4 encounters, so far, but he seems to be good at dishing out damage. I only activate the modal when I am behind an enemy.

 

[anvi]

I just don't understand why these fuckin goofballs had to ax the entire fucking POE 3.0 system.

What was that?

 

[Abu Antar]

 

[anvi]

Edit: Has anyone looked at the Definitive edition for PoE?

I have, it's called MOTB.

 

[2house2fly]

Your character's had too much health - that's what made the system so confusing...

It wasn't confusing in the slightest.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Your character's had too much health - that's what made the system so confusing...

It wasn't confusing in the slightest.

It shouldn't have been, but apparently it was...

 

[Maculo]

I got another hour or so into the game on Veteran mode.

The Temple dungeon is really nice so far with a nice variety of enemies and environments. I attacked a lone skeletal mage out of stealth under the impression it was an easy target, but as soon as I attacked him undead reinforcements started climbing up from the depths below. There also is this Lich that floats out of his coffin, and throughout the fight he constantly summons more and stronger reinforcements. It started with skeletons and then turned into the golems/automatons from PoE1. Plus, he casts this AoE ice spell on top of himself, which makes stacking the party a bad idea.

One disappointment was the Titan watcher that stands outside the temple gate. It was show cased in one of the videos a while back. The model looks good, but it was terribly under tuned relative to other fights. The Fishmen hit harder and take less damage than the Titan watcher it seems.

A couple other observations:

1. You can explore the map with your boat and pick up several items scattered throughout the islands. One annoying aspect of the boat is that every time I clicked to move I heard a bell sound. It became incredibly grating.

2. I hired a Fighter/Paladin with the tank oriented subclasses. It performs very well thus far.

3. While offensive spells feel anemic, heals are on point. It seems that the base Priest heal is an instant cast, or at least shorter than 3 seconds.

4. I do not known if I have missed something, but the merchant has a very limited selection of items. When I hired the Fighter/Paladin, there was no shield to buy for it, and so I had to give it my other fighter's shield.

Edit: I tried a Priest with max Perception and Might, and that seemed to make magic more impactful, albeit melee characters still carried the burden of damage and defense.

 

[Kaivokz]

Sorry if old.

Didn't fast weapons in Pillars 1 have 36 frame recovery? Or does he mean 30 frames before the slower recovery from not dual wielding, i.e. ~40 frame recovery for 1h and 1h/shield swings? Anyone know if they changed the attack speed calculations?

 

[Starwars]

It's pretty encouraging that shit like that is already happening. Someone on the SA forums also made a new item as well as a new ability. Will be fun to see what will happen with the full game and the whole modding thing.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Also the fact that it's crystal clear how many actions can be performed per round at any given level and you can't exceed that limit. 1 spell every 6 seconds or up to 5 attacks. Haste doubles that which is why it's so overpowered, but it's besides the point. In PoE the individual round is however much your recovery time is, which is a fraction of a second sometimes if you go all out. The lowest possible recovery should be at least 1ish second for physical attacks and 3 seconds for spells. That's including DAoM pots.

There are two big reasons why combat in Pillars is less manageable than it is in the Infinity Engine games.

Movement speed: combatants in Pillars of Eternity sprint, in the Infinity Engine games they march. Movement in Pillars happens too fast for the player to comfortably process it and react to.

Attack ranges: ranged weapons and spells have much shorter ranges in Pillars of Eternity than they do in the Infinity Engine games. In the latter, because of those longer ranges, battles play out over much greater areas and coupled with the slower movement speed, this means that unlike Pillars, battles don't easily descend into a clusterfuck of tightly-grouped together combatants and overlapping spell effects.

It's so nice that 3 years after I wrote the same things during PoE's beta, people are reaching these same conclusions for why combat sucks in PoE. Who would have thought, reinventing the wheel only got us a square wheel that doesn't work as well. Who would have thought, the Infinity Engine games had already gotten combat pacing right. Why don't you go to the Obsidian forum and just post your opinions there?

I had to think about it for a few days, but I think I figured out what's been bugging me about the new injury system. The reason I don't like the new injury system:

Not all damage counts. If you still have 1 point at the end of the fight, nothing bad happens. It is very binary - you get injured or you don't. It's punishing, but that punishment is arbitrary.

With the old health system, every time you got hurt, you felt it in that slowly decreasing health bar. Getting knocked out had a separate consequence to taking damage. Your character's had too much health - that's what made the system so confusing... you get hurt, you get back up, you get hurt, you get back up, you get hurt, you get backup, over and over until suddenly you can't get back up anymore. It took a long time to reach that point of meaningful feedback. Everything had a consequence, but the consequence was too small.

You are right that the last 1 point of health is more important than the other points, but this is the result of another half-hearted approach. Josh with the stubbornness of a mule refuses to let go of his idea that characters should have regenerating health and shouldn't be able to consume potions outside of combat.

Sorry if old.

Didn't fast weapons in Pillars 1 have 36 frame recovery? Or does he mean 30 frames before the slower recovery from not dual wielding, i.e. ~40 frame recovery for 1h and 1h/shield swings? Anyone know if they changed the attack speed calculations?

That explains why people were feeling combat was fast I guess.

 

[santino27]

I think the health system would be just fine if they got rid of auto-regen when combat ends and enabled potion use. I like the way injuries work now, but removing auto-regen would help reintroduce attrition.

Edit: I didn't say I thought they would do it. Just that it would be an improvement.

 

[Elex]

I think the health system would be just fine if they got rid of auto-regen when combat ends and enabled potion use. I like the way injuries work now, but removing auto-regen would help reintroduce attrition.

they will have to change how healing spell work too.

 

[Elex]

3 is tip fedora?