Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Junmarko]

Lol.

Just noticed that Thaos' VA sounds a lot like Mr. Peterman from Seinfeld.

 

[Polyphemus]

The variance between the good and bad writing in this game is pretty jarring. Grieving Mother, Durance, Zahua, and Eder are great companions by Avellone and Fenstermaker, but the it's hard to get over the Carrie Patel abominations. A lot of the lore behind the Saint's War is cool, but then you get these dry walls of text that bore you to death. It feels like Obsidian's last attempt at employing decent writers. Notable that Avellone and Fenstermaker were absent from the sequel.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I'll never buy another game with writing by Patel.

 

[gurugeorge]

The variance between the good and bad writing in this game is pretty jarring. Grieving Mother, Durance, Zahua, and Eder are great companions by Avellone and Fenstermaker, but the it's hard to get over the Carrie Patel abominations. A lot of the lore behind the Saint's War is cool, but then you get these dry walls of text that bore you to death. It feels like Obsidian's last attempt at employing decent writers. Notable that Avellone and Fenstermaker were absent from the sequel.

My feeling is that Avellone's creations are overwrought. I mean, they're cool and all, but actually too fussy, to the extent you don't really get the sense of a coherent character from them. The writer demands too much of you - sort of an auteur syndrome. But I don't feel I get enough reward for paying attention. (Does anyone actually understand the Grieving Mother story? I don't think I've ever finished it because it always puts me to sleep and I can't follow it from one conversation to another.)

Eder is by far the best written character, he's actually believable, like someone who could exist - but rather safe. Patel's Aloth and Sagani were quite well written in a technical sense, I thought, but ungrounded in reality (or fantasy reality) and too thematically tainted by the attempt to preach wokeness.

So a mixed bag; more interesting to read than the majority of characters in games though.

 

[BING XI LAO]

My feeling is that Avellone's creations are overwrought. I mean, they're cool and all, but actually too fussy, to the extent you don't really get the sense of a coherent character from them. The writer demands too much of you - sort of an auteur syndrome. But I don't feel I get enough reward for paying attention. (Does anyone actually understand the Grieving Mother story? I don't think I've ever finished it because it always puts me to sleep and I can't follow it from one conversation to another.)

They're easier to understand if you draw parallels with Avellone's characters in other games. Durance is analogous to Kreia and Ravel Puzzlewell, while Grieving Mother is analogous to Visas Marr.
They're rehashes, but I don't think I'd ever get tired of Kreia rehashes.
I seem to recall someone said Avellone wrote another witch-type character in another RPG but I forget what that was.

 

[Endemic]

GM seems more like a toned-down Kreia. Hiding her true nature\masking herself. Being good with magic, psychologically manipulating others, the soul\emotion reading, mind-melding with the PC, talking in abstracts regularly.

Some specific lines that remind me of Kreia:

"Those titles are markings on a map, and channel people's minds... in violent directions. Such things are... a threadbare blanket cast over the world where men and women seek more importance than simply being."

"Your mind comes bearing questions, Watcher."

"I see the word cipher in your mind, and see its meaning. Although I did not train in such things, and the title feels more of a cloak the world casts on me and judges me for."

"My face... is like the caul of a newborn, hiding the face beneath, and for my body... I am able to wrap myself as a mother cradling her child. I am here, as you see me, but to them, their eyes see only the cloak that I wear, a peasant mother, dirty, shabby, not worth knowing."

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I seem to recall someone said Avellone wrote another witch-type character in another RPG but I forget what that was.

Ignus

 

[BING XI LAO]

GM seems more like a toned-down Kreia. Hiding her true nature\masking herself. Being good with magic, psychologically manipulating others, the soul\emotion reading, mind-melding with the PC, talking in abstracts regularly.

Some specific lines that remind me of Kreia:

"Those titles are markings on a map, and channel people's minds... in violent directions. Such things are... a threadbare blanket cast over the world where men and women seek more importance than simply being."

"Your mind comes bearing questions, Watcher."

"I see the word cipher in your mind, and see its meaning. Although I did not train in such things, and the title feels more of a cloak the world casts on me and judges me for."

"My face... is like the caul of a newborn, hiding the face beneath, and for my body... I am able to wrap myself as a mother cradling her child. I am here, as you see me, but to them, their eyes see only the cloak that I wear, a peasant mother, dirty, shabby, not worth knowing."

The deicidal agenda and edgeposting is more core to Kreia than the psionics IMO. Kreia and Durance are angry chads, while GM and Visas are emo.

 

[Mazisky]

Pillars 1 writing is the last good one from Obsidian. It is too verbose true, but still good. Pillars 2 writing is garbage

 

[Fedora Master]

Nothing about PoE was ever good and the game offers only blithe decline to the rest of the genre. Fact.

 

[adddeed]

Oh look another dipshit that hasnt played the game coming here with his expert opnion.
Fuckin basement dweller shitstain.

 

[Fedora Master]

"Clearly anyone who criticizes our precious shitheap must be ignorant of its true greatness and glorious stench", cried the gnat.

 

[adddeed]

You call that edgy one liner a critique you fuckin parrot?

 

[Mazisky]

It is not perfect, but Pillars 1 + expansion is a good rpg and still better than that overrated garbage "Rpg of the decade" Dinivity 2, which people gave 10\10 only because you can pet a cat or talk with rabbits

 

[Lacrymas]

Well, the expansion is good. Base game is an almost unplayable slog.

 

[Fedora Master]

Well, the expansion is good. Base game is an almost unplayable slog.

bUt wHitE mArCH is gUd

Don't care, shit game, shit community around the game, shit developers, pure decline all around. Don't support decline.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's not the fault of the game you don't care the expansion is good though.

 

[Fedora Master]

It's not the fault of the game you don't care the expansion is good though.

When the base game is such a huge borefest that it makes me not care for the entire series it really IS the game's fault.

 

[Lacrymas]

PoE2 is more consistently playable, but while it doesn't have the lows base PoE1 has, it doesn't have the highs of White March as well. If you are satisfied with consistently ok-ish, PoE2 is fine.

 

[vortex]

Henry W. Longfellow wrote in Psalm of Life

In the world's broad field of battle,
In the bivouac of Life,
Be not like dumb, driven cattle!
Be a hero in the strife!

And I've read bivouac as biawac (spirit wind in Pillars). Funny thing is you can replace it with biawac and have a good sense of poem still.

 

[aweigh]

elaine so cute

 

[Ulfhednar]

Ekera, a fine poem for the souls, I say!

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I hate how boring magic is in these games. It's barely above "at least you tried" level, restricted entirely to hindering enemies and helping allies.
It's only fair to directly compare it to AD&D as the entire purpose was to create a ruleset designed for cRPGs instead of tabletop, yet Sawyer completely failed. Sawyer is good at identifying problems, but pretty shit at fixing them.

Pull up a list of AD&D 2E spells including splatbooks, there's hundreds of different spells.
In a way, AD&D spells were created the same way a theoretical world with actual magical studies would be created. There are many, many authors and not every spell is meant to be -- on some level -- equivalent to others of the same tier. Many spells are completely situational, which makes sense as wizards would create spells for their specific purposes and perhaps teach them to wizards who study under them.

This is, I assume, a mostly complete list of spells for AD&D 2E: https://regalgoblins.com/spells.php
It includes PHB, splatbooks, UA, and his own homebrew spells -- sources for which are on the card itself.
There are probably more level 1 spells listed than there are spells in pillows entirely.

Picking a random level 1 spell

Patternweave

Patternweave allows the caster to make sense of apparent chaos. The caster can see such things as pottery shards reformed into a whole pot, shreds of paper formed into a page, scattered parts as a working machine, or specific trails appearing out of overlapping footprints.

After casting the spell, the mage studies seemingly random elements-broken bits of glass, shreds of paper, intermingled trails, etc. The items to be studied must be tangible-coded flashing lights, garbled speech, or thoughts of any kind cannot be studied.
The wizard must study the random elements for one round, after which the DM secretly makes a saving throw vs. spell for the wizard. If the saving throw is failed, the spell fails. However, if the saving throw is successful, the caster sees in his mind the pattern these objects form. If the items studied are truly random, no information is gained.

After the caster has visualized the pattern, he can attempt to reassemble the parts into their original form. This requires another saving throw vs. spell to determine whether the mage remembers sufficient details to accomplish the task. The amount of time required and the quality of restoration vary according to the complexity of the pattern. Reassembling a shredded map may be easy; reassembling a broken clock is significantly more difficult; rebuilding a shattered mosaic is extremely difficult. In any case, the wizard can make only a reasonable copy of the item. He can use this spell to restore works of art, but they will be worth only a small percentage of their original value.

This is an interesting spell. It is incredibly situational, yet could easily have many uses throughout basically any campaign you can think of.
PoE has nothing like this because magic is focused entirely -- and only -- on combat. How silly, do wizards do nothing but fight? They don't research, travel, cook food, grow plants, etc?

Ironically, one of the major issues with pillows is that it has no soul.

--
To be entirely fair, white march saw some usage of spells(and magical items) in dialogue/text encounters. I remember being able to use Eder's shield to put out flames because it was enchanted to be able to cast some frost spell.

 

[Namutree]

I definitely prefer PoE 1 over 2.

Talents were more restricted in part 2, which annoyed me.

 

[Ninjerk]

I hate how boring magic is in these games. It's barely above "at least you tried" level, restricted entirely to hindering enemies and helping allies.
It's only fair to directly compare it to AD&D as the entire purpose was to create a ruleset designed for cRPGs instead of tabletop, yet Sawyer completely failed. Sawyer is good at identifying problems, but pretty shit at fixing them.

Pull up a list of AD&D 2E spells including splatbooks, there's hundreds of different spells.
In a way, AD&D spells were created the same way a theoretical world with actual magical studies would be created. There are many, many authors and not every spell is meant to be -- on some level -- equivalent to others of the same tier. Many spells are completely situational, which makes sense as wizards would create spells for their specific purposes and perhaps teach them to wizards who study under them.

This is, I assume, a mostly complete list of spells for AD&D 2E: https://regalgoblins.com/spells.php
It includes PHB, splatbooks, UA, and his own homebrew spells -- sources for which are on the card itself.
There are probably more level 1 spells listed than there are spells in pillows entirely.

Picking a random level 1 spell

Patternweave

Patternweave allows the caster to make sense of apparent chaos. The caster can see such things as pottery shards reformed into a whole pot, shreds of paper formed into a page, scattered parts as a working machine, or specific trails appearing out of overlapping footprints.

After casting the spell, the mage studies seemingly random elements-broken bits of glass, shreds of paper, intermingled trails, etc. The items to be studied must be tangible-coded flashing lights, garbled speech, or thoughts of any kind cannot be studied.
The wizard must study the random elements for one round, after which the DM secretly makes a saving throw vs. spell for the wizard. If the saving throw is failed, the spell fails. However, if the saving throw is successful, the caster sees in his mind the pattern these objects form. If the items studied are truly random, no information is gained.

After the caster has visualized the pattern, he can attempt to reassemble the parts into their original form. This requires another saving throw vs. spell to determine whether the mage remembers sufficient details to accomplish the task. The amount of time required and the quality of restoration vary according to the complexity of the pattern. Reassembling a shredded map may be easy; reassembling a broken clock is significantly more difficult; rebuilding a shattered mosaic is extremely difficult. In any case, the wizard can make only a reasonable copy of the item. He can use this spell to restore works of art, but they will be worth only a small percentage of their original value.

This is an interesting spell. It is incredibly situational, yet could easily have many uses throughout basically any campaign you can think of.
PoE has nothing like this because magic is focused entirely -- and only -- on combat. How silly, do wizards do nothing but fight? They don't research, travel, cook food, grow plants, etc?

Ironically, one of the major issues with pillows is that it has no soul.

--
To be entirely fair, white march saw some usage of spells(and magical items) in dialogue/text encounters. I remember being able to use Eder's shield to put out flames because it was enchanted to be able to cast some frost spell.

I felt (post-PoE anyways) that he spent a lot of his effort trying to correct things that aren't really problems or just ended up throwing the baby out with the bathwater.