Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

Delterius · Dec 31, 2021

PoTD mostly serves to delay the point where you outlevel the vanilla fights and to keep DLC fights interesting. Even then if you, say, play a nuker buffer Priest then the game falls back on Hard.

Lacrymas · Dec 31, 2021

Depending on party composition, the difficulty falls off around lvl 8-10, that's one of the reasons WM2 is a bit underwhelming. The more casters you have, the faster you become op. I honestly think that playing a 3-man Priest/Druid/Wizard party will still feel a bit op around that level range.

Lyric Suite · Dec 31, 2021

plem said:
expert mode mostly turns off combat information about enemies' defendes and stats

Isn't there an in game bestiary (or in game monster manual if you will) that gets updated when new enemies are encountered that tells you that stuff?

chuft · Dec 31, 2021

This game made me realize I dislike games based on making the perfect build rather than executing good tactics. Enjoyed POE2 so much more but that was in turn based mode so I could see what the fuck was going on and did not have to rely on a spreadsheet driven build strategy.

IHaveHugeNick · Dec 31, 2021

Lacrymas said:
Inb4 the "I'm fucking done with this game, my paladin doesn't do anything and the system is dumb" post. ;d

"Modern games are made for idiots, in the old days they used to value complexity "

"Btw I can't figure out how this system works"

Lyric Suite · Dec 31, 2021

Lacrymas said:
You already have the mindset that Sawyer is trying to manipulate your character concept

I phrased it that way for humor but i think this is more of a case of unintended consequences of the mechanics.

The idea that it's best to dual wield fast, light weapons if you are wearing heavy armor is so counter intuitive that i doubt it was intentional.

In Icewind Dale: EE it's also better to dual wield than to use a 2h weapon but that's only because the BG2 combat system wasn't intended for Icewind Dale. While dual weilding is very powerful in BG2 as well, there's also very good choices for 2h styles, not to mention Casomyr (clearly Bioware understood how people were likely to play their Paladins, why couldn't Sawyer?).

It's ironic, but i think the biggest problem with Pillars is lack of balance rather than the other way around. Just the fact i'm being told over and over in this thread that i MUST build my character in a certain way shows this to be the case.

plem · Dec 31, 2021

Lyric Suite said:
Isn't there an in game bestiary (or in game monster manual if you will) that gets updated when new enemies are encountered that tells you that stuff?

right, but by default you can just hover over the enemy and it'll show you their defenses, immunities, conditions, etc (though it still pulls from the bestiary)

chuft said:
This game made me realize I dislike games based on making the perfect build rather than executing good tactics. Enjoyed POE2 so much more but that was in turn based mode so I could see what the fuck was going on and did not have to rely on a spreadsheet driven build strategy.

PoE is really one of the least build-dependant CRPGs out there though, it's hard to properly screw up a character and all atributes are useful to every class
I know it's a meme but it's nonetheless true that the system was built from ground up to disencourage min-maxing

also although RtwP is less tactical than turn-based, tactics still definitely play a role and can change the outcome of encounters
positioning, optimal usage of spells and abilities, synergies and combos, timing, etc are all important
put combat on slow mode to make it easier to keep up with

Deadfire has the opposite problem compared to games like Kingmaker and BG, where the system was built for real-time so making it turn-based screws up several mechanics
so despite preferring turn-based games I still play PoE2 on RtwP

Roguey · Dec 31, 2021

chuft said:
This game made me realize I dislike games based on making the perfect build rather than executing good tactics. Enjoyed POE2 so much more but that was in turn based mode so I could see what the fuck was going on and did not have to rely on a spreadsheet driven build strategy.

Like most other RPGs, PoE does not require "making the perfect build."

Lacrymas · Dec 31, 2021

Lyric Suite said:
The idea that it's best to dual wield fast, light weapons if you are wearing heavy armor is so counter intuitive that i doubt it was intentional.

This is a consequence of how the actions are spread out through time. Since every character has its own timer that can be manipulated through stats and items, finding the combo that allows you to act the most in a given time-frame is the optimal path. This is the worst design decision in this system imo and a source of countless headaches.

Lyric Suite said:
It's ironic, but i think the biggest problem with Pillars is lack of balance rather than the other way around. Just the fact i'm being told over and over in this thread that i MUST build my character in a certain way shows this to be the case.

No, I and everyone else have been saying that you can beat the game even on PotD with a subpar party, but that the way you want to build your character will most likely lead to a boring and comparatively ineffective one.

chuft · Dec 31, 2021

I guess some people here are amnesiacs and don't recall how every patch would nerf this or that because it was optimal.

I work with a guy who broke the game early on using six chanters. He never needed to pause, just watched them slaughter everything with stacking effects.

almondblight · Dec 31, 2021

plem said:
also although RtwP is less tactical than turn-based, tactics still definitely play a role and can change the outcome of encounters
positioning, optimal usage of spells and abilities, synergies and combos, timing, etc are all important
put combat on slow mode to make it easier to keep up withP

It can turn into a giant mess, though, particularly with large monsters like drakes and spell effects. Also doesn't help that you're usually swarmed by a ton of enemies (I only played PotD, though, from what I understand lower difficulties aren't as bad).

Lacrymas said:
No, I and everyone else have been saying that you can beat the game even on PotD with a subpar party, but that the way you want to build your character will most likely lead to a boring and comparatively ineffective one.

Sword and shield tends to be more boring in most games. But I found a two-hander paladin build in PoE to be pretty fun, especially with Kind Wayfarer talents. There are some interesting tactical choices like who you want to focus Flames of Devotion on, when to do it for optimal healing, if you should disengage to lay the killing blow on a nearby wounded enemy, etc.

Lacrymas · Dec 31, 2021

Sword and shield Barb is pretty fun, though, so it's definitely down to class.

Orud · Dec 31, 2021

For someone that directly handicaps the combat potential of Paladins in her custom D&D campaign, by castrating them, you do like to optimize them a lot in PoE.

vortex · Dec 31, 2021

Will POE3 hit the Larian's BG3 hype and fame and how?

deem · Dec 31, 2021

I'm planning on returning this game. I've only played a little bit few years back. Should I get the DLC's? I see they are now on sale and I have just the base game.

plem · Dec 31, 2021

deem said:
I'm planning on returning this game. I've only played a little bit few years back. Should I get the DLC's? I see they are now on sale and I have just the base game.

the DLCs make the game 3x better, so yes

Ulfhednar · Dec 31, 2021

Lyric Suite said:
While dual weilding is very powerful in BG2 as well, there's also very good choices for 2h styles, not to mention Casomyr (clearly Bioware understood how people were likely to play their Paladins, why couldn't Sawyer?).

No shortage of opportunity for 2h palarpadins...

chuft · Dec 31, 2021

plem said:
deem said:

I'm planning on returning this game. I've only played a little bit few years back. Should I get the DLC's? I see they are now on sale and I have just the base game.

Click to expand...

the DLCs make the game 3x better, so yes

Well, 3x harder anyway. They made me give up on the game.

Lacrymas · Dec 31, 2021

Ironically, Barbarians work the best for two-handers because Carnage spreads on-hit/crit effects. I'm not exactly sure what Paladins get by wielding a two-hander. It seems simply worse than dual-wielding.

Lyric Suite · Dec 31, 2021

Nobody is disputing that. Some of us are just voicing our annoyance at the fact the most efficient way to play a Paladin is LARP as a swashbuckler with the intelligence of a nuclear physicist.

BTW, one question. Are attributes capped? If i set might at 18, and then wear something that increases might by two, will i get 20, or is 18 the maximum.

Butter · Dec 31, 2021

Lyric Suite said:
Nobody is disputing that. Some of us are just voicing our annoyance at the fact the most efficient way to play a Paladin is LARP as a swashbuckler with the intelligence of a nuclear physicist.

BTW, one question. Are attributes capped? If i set might at 18, and then wear something that increases might by two, will i get 20, or is 18 the maximum.

There's no cap, but there are stacking rules. I think in practice the highest you can get is about 24.

Lacrymas · Dec 31, 2021

The soft cap is at least 31 - Aumaua or Dwarf from the Living Lands can get to 31 Might with Champion's Boon. I'm not sure how prostitute, resting, permanent quest rewards, and food bonuses stack with that.

Lyric Suite · Dec 31, 2021

Ok, ok, i was just trying to look for an excuse NOT to max a stat so i can spread out more lmao.

Lacrymas · Dec 31, 2021

I think the highest possible Might score is 47. 21 from character creation + 10 Champion's Boon + 4 Maegfolc Skull + 4 Abydon's Hammer + 3 Training Grounds resting bonus + 2 prostitute bonus + 3 from Galawain's Boon/Gift from the Machine/Effigy's Resentment.

Crichton · Jan 1, 2022

Lyric Suite said:
Nobody is disputing that. Some of us are just voicing our annoyance at the fact the most efficient way to play a Paladin is LARP as a swashbuckler with the intelligence of a nuclear physicist.

BTW, one question. Are attributes capped? If i set might at 18, and then wear something that increases might by two, will i get 20, or is 18 the maximum.

I never used one of those "DPS" calculator things, so it's possible I was mistaken, but I played a dwarven paladin with a dex of 2 and two-handed weapons and I was convinced that 2-handed was more efficient than two-weapons, particularly since a lot of the best weapons for inflicting debuffs were two-handed. I recall him using Hours of St. Rumbolt for just about forever (I might have traded it in for Abydon's hammer at some point). However keep in mind that at release there were still a couple competing theories for how attack speed was calculated so it's possible that someone has finally mathematically proven the superiority of the mini weapons.

Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

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