Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Grunker]

nothing to see here, comrades

lol spot on

 

[Lacrymas]

Here's the thing with the gods being "fake". It would only matter in a Christian-like theological context whether they were created by people or not. In PoE, they are the state, they are Hobbes' Leviathan, an ultimate sovereign that theoretically prevents us from exterminating each other and upon whom we have theoretically (in PoE's case, practically) voluntarily granted absolute authority. Hobbes talks about how Christianity can be a part of this, but it's irrelevant because Hobbes' problem is that we don't know how we can trust mediators like prophets and the Bible, while in PoE we know the gods are real and what they want, so that goes out the window. It's not about faith in PoE, it's about a social contract, that's why the "revelation" is shockingly meaningless.

 

[NJClaw]

Jesus Christ, rusty, you can literally force her to face the fact that she is powerless in front of the gods and that the only way to escape their grasp is to annihilate her soul.

 

[Grunker]

Here's the thing with the gods being "fake" thing. It would only matter in a Christian-like theological context whether they were created by people or not. In PoE, they are the state, they are Hobbes' Leviathan, an ultimate sovereign that theoretically prevents us from exterminating each other and upon whom we have theoretically (in PoE's case, practically) voluntarily granted absolute authority. Hobbes talks about how Christianity can be a part of this, but it's irrelevant because Hobbes' problem is that we don't know how we can trust mediators like prophets and the Bible, while in PoE we know the gods are real and what they want, so that goes out the window. It's not about faith in PoE, it's about a social contract, that's why the "revelation" is shockingly meaningless.

Bingo. Which is exactly why I made the point about worldly questions vs. spiritual ones. PoE has some decent takes on the former, but none of the people who worked on the game seemingly really understood the latter. All their attempts at spiritual discussion fall entirely flat.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Jesus Christ, rusty, you can literally force her to face the fact that she is powerless in front of the gods and that the only way to escape their grasp is to annihilate her soul.

if I confronted people as annoying as you guys I'd send you to an eternity of hell at the bottom of a pit too

 

[Grunker]

Jesus Christ, rusty, you can literally force her to face the fact that she is powerless in front of the gods and that the only way to escape their grasp is to annihilate her soul.

how will you prove that though? short of flying rusty to your location and letting him install an unaltered version of the game on his own steam account and then complete the entire game with him as a witness

 

[NJClaw]

Jesus Christ, rusty, you can literally force her to face the fact that she is powerless in front of the gods and that the only way to escape their grasp is to annihilate her soul.

if I confronted people as annoying as you guys I'd send you to an eternity of hell at the bottom of a pit too

Hey, at least we know for a fact that you're not a god. That's a relief.

 

[Parabalus]

Makes no sense given your comparison with Greek gods, who aren't omnipotent.

Sure, but you're the one expecting rusty to make sense so... who's the fool now, uh?

He's usually consistent within a particular LARP, these kinds of basic errors aren't his style.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Makes no sense given your comparison with Greek gods, who aren't omnipotent.

Sure, but you're the one expecting rusty to make sense so... who's the fool now, uh?

He's usually consistent within a particular LARP, these kinds of basic errors aren't his style.

I didn't compare them to greek gods, I was implying that the way they acted isn't out of character for basically any human known pantheon that isn't Abrahamic.

 

[Sunri]

Lyric Suite did you drop the game already?

 

[Ulfhednar]

It echoes Nietszche's "God is dead" too much for it's own good. You can't rationalize away God's (monotheistic Christian omnipotent spiritual yadda yadda yadda) existence in a universe where gods (more the Greek pantheon variety) inhabit skyscraper-sized jade statues.

 

[Parabalus]

Makes no sense given your comparison with Greek gods, who aren't omnipotent.

Sure, but you're the one expecting rusty to make sense so... who's the fool now, uh?

He's usually consistent within a particular LARP, these kinds of basic errors aren't his style.

I didn't compare them to greek gods, I was implying that the way they acted isn't out of character for basically any human known pantheon that isn't Abrahamic.

But none of the gods in those pantheons are omnipotent. They act the way they act because they aren't.

Just like Eora's.

 

[Roguey]

Blatantly obvious what the plot is: bad guy wants to be a god.

Not quite; Thaos is a faithful and loyal Woedicuck.

So was it really the writers insisting on cramming deep lore wikipedia articles into 90% of PoE's NPCs, or was it Sawyer's insistence that they had to communicate all these details of the lore? Maybe Roguey knows.

It was the writers, Fenstermaker in particular. You yourself had a negative reaction when I posted Sawyer's previous thoughts on exposition-in-the-form-of-dialogue https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...-to-the-new-thread.75947/page-86#post-2280360 https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...-to-the-new-thread.75947/page-86#post-2280395

Then there's Fensty with his "players have to know everything immediately" https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...expansion-thread.100006/page-339#post-7274644

I'll try to find it. Maybe it was just someone else using the Eder-avatar. But my point wasn't to correct you but to ask honestly about the "terrible game" part? Always thought you enjoyed PoE

rusty's non-edgy game ratings

KCD: 7
Elex: 8
Prey: n/a
Tyranny: 4
Divinity Original Sin 2: 9
Divinity Original Sin 1: 8
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided: 6
Witcher 3: not an rpg
Torment: Tides of Numenera: 4
Age of Decadence: 7
Underrail: 8
Wasteland 2: 7
Pillars of Eternity: 7.5
Fallout 4: 3, barely an RPG

His assessment of Pillars wasn't so bad. Better than KCD, Tyranny, nuTorment, AoD, and Wasteland 2!

 

[Grunker]

Truly, your autism is appreciated <3

EDIT: Also GOD DAMN that is some insanity from Fenstermaker. Most writers aren't bad because they can't vocalize the tenets of good writing, they're bad because they can't execute on them. I wonder where he learned that crap

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Makes no sense given your comparison with Greek gods, who aren't omnipotent.

Sure, but you're the one expecting rusty to make sense so... who's the fool now, uh?

He's usually consistent within a particular LARP, these kinds of basic errors aren't his style.

I didn't compare them to greek gods, I was implying that the way they acted isn't out of character for basically any human known pantheon that isn't Abrahamic.

But none of the gods in those pantheons are omnipotent. They act the way they act because they aren't.

Just like Eora's.

idk I consider gods who can just teleport one of the strongest mortals alive to their realm on a whim and then zap you out of existence if you disagree with them to either be omnipotent or so powerful that the distinction simply doesn't matter

 

[Lacrymas]

But none of the gods in those pantheons are omnipotent. They act the way they act because they aren't.

Just like Eora's.

Zeus is theoretically omnipotent (more specifically "a perfect unmoved mover") if we are to believe Plato. This raises the question - why did the Engwithans create a pantheon of imperfect/limited gods rather than one omnipotent one? Or many omnipotent ones.

 

[Delterius]

idk I consider gods who can do lots of stuff to be omnipotent or so powerful that the distinction simply doesn't matter

words no longer have meaning i see

 

[ERYFKRAD]

idk I consider gods who can do lots of stuff to be omnipotent or so powerful that the distinction simply doesn't matter

words no longer have meaning i see

How does- distinction does not matter equate to meaningless words now?

 

[Delterius]

idk I consider gods who can do lots of stuff to be omnipotent or so powerful that the distinction simply doesn't matter

words no longer have meaning i see

How does- distinction does not matter equate to meaningless words now?

because thats not what omnipotent means

 

[Grunker]

His assessment of Pillars wasn't so bad. Better than KCD, Tyranny, nuTorment, AoD, and Wasteland 2!

and just 0.5 below Underrail.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

They're at a point where you'd just be arguing technicalities because it doesn't matter. Any blow you strike against them was either one they wanted you to land or was with the help of another god.
You can even infer they have powers like the ability to stop time because long conversations with them seemingly happened in an instant when you snap back.

His assessment of Pillars wasn't so bad. Better than KCD, Tyranny, nuTorment, AoD, and Wasteland 2!

and just 0.5 below Underrail.

I'd change a few of those ratings with replays. Underrail goes up, more enjoyable on replay.

 

[Grunker]

Roguey lol I was basically wrong about everything in that line of discussion. What is especially funny considering I use Torment as an example in that discussion is that in my PoE-review I specifically highlight the reason that Torment had to do the description thing (as opposed to PoE). Perhaps the answer to what can change the nature of a man isn't regret, but time :D

EDIT: Well, not everything. I was spot on with this:

colorcoding for anyhing else than skill checks, and even sometimes there too, is pure stupidity

subconciously it makes you skip reading and make choices based on happy sparkly colours

 

[Parabalus]

idk I consider gods who can do lots of stuff to be omnipotent or so powerful that the distinction simply doesn't matter

words no longer have meaning i see

How does- distinction does not matter equate to meaningless words now?

because thats not what omnipotent means

Especially funny given how this all started with the meaning of "real".

 

[Grunker]

idk I consider gods who can do lots of stuff to be omnipotent or so powerful that the distinction simply doesn't matter

words no longer have meaning i see

How does- distinction does not matter equate to meaningless words now?

because thats not what omnipotent means

Especially funny given how this all started with the meaning of "paladin".

 

[rusty_shackleford]

idk I consider gods who can do lots of stuff to be omnipotent or so powerful that the distinction simply doesn't matter

words no longer have meaning i see

How does- distinction does not matter equate to meaningless words now?

because thats not what omnipotent means

Especially funny given how this all started with the meaning of "real".

Hestia, you who tend the holy house of the lord Apollo, the Far-shooter at goodly Pytho, with soft oil dripping ever from your locks, come now into this house, come, having one mind with Zeus the all-wise -- draw near, and withal bestow grace upon my song.

I will sing of Zeus, chiefest among the gods and greatest, all-seeing, the lord of all, the fulfiller who whispers words of wisdom to Themis as she sits leaning towards him. Be gracious, all-seeing Son of Cronos, most excellent and great!