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Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

Joined
Jan 21, 2023
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I'm level 7 right now, the game just alerted me that the White March is beckoning. Considering going there. I haven't played the game in years and I never got very far anyway, so it's all new to me.

It feels like a soulless version of PoE 2 without the pirate theme, with a simpler character system, etc. I wouldn't say it's BAD, I do like some parts of the theme and writing and story, and I haven't gotten burnt out yet. I'm also a big fan of the world because of PoE 2. But the gameplay and story progression is strongly reminding me of Black Geyser. I'm going to push through, though, because PoE2 is a direct sequel that has a common player character and references the original story a lot. I also want to know more about Rymrgand.

I'm really hoping Winter March has a lot of high quality Rymrgand content.
White March is way better than anything in the base game. Both parts. Bear in mind that there's a jump in difficulty in the second DLC, you'll probably need more levels. IIRC there's a dragon fight in Part Two.
 

Orud

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This is one of the least fun games I've ever played. It feels like developers did not even try to do anything remarkable with this game. Even mediocre games I've played had something interesting about it:
-> Risen 2 (and probably anything made by Piranha) had great exploration and was thematically quite original.
-> Oblivion had some great questlines (like the one for Thieves Guild) and You played it from the hero's sidekick perspective.
-> Dragon Age II had comics-like graphics and was played from a perspective of a random schmuck.
-> Twitcher 3 and Neverwinter Nights 2 had spectacular expansions (Blood & Wine and Mask of the Betrayer).
And in this game:
-> The exploration is trashy (just like in their stroke-ridden muse, Baldur's Gate). Small maps with many filler encounters and but a few points of interest (in White March it felt better, as the areas were more condensed).
-> The combat functions like Dragon Age: Origins after undergoing fun-removal procedure (they even ripped off its injury system - which kind of makes sense). It wasn't challenging on hard, and I was unable to powergame in order to dispose of enemies quickly (which apparently was a target for this developer).
-> Spells don't have any identity. And they could have changed it, after all, it was their setting.
-> Loading screens are terrifying.
-> Almost all the interesting equipment is found in expansions, which makes the exploration even less rewarding.
-> The world is presented as if it was some kind of Detroit neighbourhood, yet - if I remember correctly - no one made a single joke, so probably they couldn't have had it that bad.
-> The usual consequences of not passing the skill check? Less lore dumps (thankfully).
-> Journal was normal. It's not a problem, but some games made it good enough for me to remember it (Kingmaker showed it from a perspective of a companion; in Divine Divinity, it was witty and showed every conversation; same holds for Deus Ex; in Morrowind the development of a journal showed all player's progress, and it read like a book at the end of the game). It's a nice touch to the game, which was impossible for them to make, obviously.
If you're going to call Dragon Age II better than Pillars of Eternity then the problem is not with the game, but with you.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Sep 23, 2015
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Pathfinder: Wrath
Considering Pillars killed IE-like RPGs (with the exception of Black Geyser I guess), it's no surprise some people are still butthurt about it.
 

cyborgboy95

News Cyborg
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Aug 24, 2019
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3,075
An immediate sequel may have been cancelled, but the successful long tail plus a post-Pentiment Josh Sawyer saying he'd be willing to take another shot at Pillars (after previously stating that he was done and never wanted anything to do with it again) may end up resulting in a third.
Roguey Can you point me to the source where Josh Sawyer said he would be willing to do Pillars 3? I wasn't impressed with Deadfire, but Pillars 1 (& expansions) - despite being no masterpiece - manage to fill my hunger for isometric real-time-with-pause fantasy crpg at the moment (while waiting for Pathfinder Wrath's and Black Geysers' DLCs to drop and Dark Envoy to come out)

Pillars 1 kinda restore my faith in the potential of this series after my underwhelming experience with Deadfire, so any news about a potential Pillars 3 would be welcome.
That is to say, winning hard fights never feels as rewarding as it should due to the post-fight HP regeneration, per encounter spells, party members being KO’d at zero health and unrestricted resting. Defeating a tough encounter, no matter where you are and what your party is, always just brings you back to square one, which is having all your stuff recharged and ready for the next slaughter. Never do you have to consider going through a series of fights with progressively dwindling resources, or sacrificing one of your assets to win.

Even worse, Deadfire has thrown all pretences of Vancian spellcasting and resource management out the window. For non-spellcasters, each character has a pool of “ability points” to spend on active awesome buttons in each encounter as he sees fit, with each ability having its own cost (for example, the paladin resource is “zeal”, and it costs 1 zeal to heal a guy with lay on hands or 4 to revive him in combat). The pools recharge automatically after every fight, so you can spam your bestest abilities all the time with little concern. Spellcasters are not very different – instead of ability points they are limited by how many spells of a given tier they can cast in a single fight. These of course recharge between encounters too, so feel free to nuke everything with chain lightning in every fight and try to ignore the lingering questions in the back of your head concerning the complete uselessness of over half your spellbook.

The removal of resource management also rears its ugly head when it comes to the wounds that characters take upon KO. All wounds, no matter their severity, can be removed by resting for 8 hours and using whatever food you have in your inventory, which translates into healing skull fractures and PTSD by munching on some oranges. Plus, resting is unlimited both in terms of availability (no camping supplies are necessary to rest) and scope (you can always rest anywhere), so the wound mechanic is kind of pointless in practice.
The excerpt above from Darth Roxor's review sum up my feelings pretty well about why Deadfire didn't manage to win me over. Really hope Pillars 3 (if it happens) would fix this problem (aka making long-term planning or temperance in ability use actually means something again)
Second, a new difficulty mode has been added for Camping. It defaults to Off.
The ideas is that Tiredness builds up and acts like a resource when healing. Spending time in camp uses up your Tiredness, which then prevents you from healing or gaining mana.

Tiredness can be gained back by wandering or fighting monsters, especially difficult ones.
Camping is not prevented, only healing. The idea is to limit the constant use of camping to fill up to max after fighting, for players that want more of a challenge.

Man and Health regen are not limited by Tiredness.

Maybe Obsidians could implement a Tiredness system like in Caves of Lore to address resting spam in a potential Pillars 3?
 
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Orud

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Considering Pillars killed IE-like RPGs (with the exception of Black Geyser I guess), it's no surprise some people are still butthurt about it.
It certainly did not. Other examples:
  • Pathfinder : Kingmaker
  • Pathfinder : Wrath of the Righteous
  • Rogue Trader
  • Solasta (I consider it more a IE derivative than DOS2 derivative)
  • Expeditions Rome
  • Expeditions Vikins
The only thing that is dead is RTwP, but that has nothing to do with Pillars if you ask me. I'd put the reason more with:
  • Table-top becoming more ingrained into culture.
  • The sheer success of DoS2, selling millions.
  • ect ...
 
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Lacrymas

Arcane
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Sep 23, 2015
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Pathfinder: Wrath
I wouldn't say any of these are IE-like, mostly because they don't feature 2D maps. Not every top-down RPG is IE-like.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Man, Pillars is such a great tragedy.

It's like somebody put in the foundations for a fortress and it was used to support an outside toilet.

Yeah, this metafor has been used in all iterations for PoE from different people because everyone has that feeling. Squandered potential. I called it a great meal seasoned with ash in my review
 

Nikanuur

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Man, Pillars is such a great tragedy.

It's like somebody put in the foundations for a fortress and it was used to support an outside toilet.
Nah, it's just you and your kind always striving towards objectivity such as throwing out the baby with the bathwater and then strongly suggesting how bathwater is the worst in life.
 

behold_a_man

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Nov 26, 2022
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If you're going to call Dragon Age II better than Pillars of Eternity then the problem is not with the game, but with you.
Comparison of those two is just as exciting as a competition of female athletes. All I'm saying is that when I play a game, good or bad, I want to see something well done; I want to stumble upon an element, some mechanics, some concept, whereupon I will think 'Oh, this is a neat idea, it would be great, if some other RPGs would try it'. Almost every RPG has those. And even, if the game consists of bad, but original ideas, there will be some developer, who will notice the game, see, what does not work, and won't attempt the same thing in the future. The only features of Pillars that I liked were its stability and the ability to speed up the character movement. And original ideas in Pillars?
-> Weapon progression in the White March - even that is just a glorified weapon upgrade, if I remember correctly, all but one weapons required some standard death dealing in order to upgrade them.
-> The ability to finish the game prematurely at the end of the White March part 2, as a form of an achievement rather than just stopping playing the game - it's something that was present in Planescape Torment, but I would love to see it more often. The problem is, I didn't die, because some inept fishes pulled my character to the ground while my character was drowning. A tragedy.
 
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behold_a_man

Educated
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Nov 26, 2022
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What's the better executed idea in Dragon Age 2?
I don't have a clue on how to compare them. I liked the comics-like graphics, which I haven't seen in any other western RPG before, and I liked the motif of some random person trying to survive in a city. It was novel for me. The fact, that the state of this game is comparable to Might & Magic IX does not mean, that the core idea was garbage.
 

duskvile

Fabulous Optimist
Joined
Jun 3, 2023
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292
Obsidian should think about more open ended areas for Pillars 3. Is it possible to create semi open world with 2d isometric maps without loading screens?
 

warralek

Literate
Joined
Aug 7, 2023
Messages
9
Not necessarily Pillars 3, but a turn-based Pillars Tactics.
Certainly hope not, I hope Josh just keep away from Pillars and make his own Bike Shop Simulator (or just make real sequel to PoE 1&2 without philosophizing much).

The first step is to drop Unity.
Hm not saying Unity is great but not sure it's only engine fault. They already have good basics with PoE2 on wich they can build on and with some performance optimization and upgrades PoE 3 can look and feel good in Unity. Starting from scratch in Unreal will take longer and will not guarantee that game will not have same performance issues/lags.
 

duskvile

Fabulous Optimist
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Jun 3, 2023
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292
The first step is to drop Unity.
I would assume Unity did get better since.
The only other realistic option is Unreal which doesn't seem all that great on the loading screen front either.
With Unreal they would probably go with 3D landscape. I was thinking seamlessly loading 2D maps as part of bigger semi open world.
 

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