Return To Monkey Island - MI2 sequel from Ron Gilbert

[Nifft Batuff]

I am strange. I don't have any problems with backtracking in p&c adventure games, or in general (maybe with the exception of soulslike games, when you have to repeat an entire level just to reach the boss fight)

 

[Viata]

I played many jrpgs full of backtracking and random battles every 2 steps, those p&c adventure games will never annoy me with their backtracking.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Isn’t that a bit of an “I survived cancer, malaria is nothing to me” argument?

An egregious design flaw in one product in no way justifies crediting another product for employing a more benign variety of the same basic flaw.

 

[Darkozric]

An egregious design flaw

"Egregious"... LoL, how much of a backtracking butthurt are you dude, seriously.
Just be a man a do some fucking backtracking.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

An egregious design flaw

"Egregious"... LoL, how much of a backtracking butthurt are you dude, seriously.
Just be a man a do some fucking backtracking.

Backtracking is fine (sometimes even great!), but Viata was specifically referring to games/genres where backtracking is introduced in order to artificially pad gameplay/waste the player’s time. That shit ain’t cool.

 

[Darkozric]

Backtracking is fine (sometimes even great!), but Viata was specifically referring to games/genres where backtracking is introduced in order to artificially pad gameplay/waste the player’s time. That shit ain’t cool.

Well, he talked about his personal experience, that he has backtracking immunity, he did not try to force it on you or any other here.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Backtracking is fine (sometimes even great!), but Viata was specifically referring to games/genres where backtracking is introduced in order to artificially pad gameplay/waste the player’s time. That shit ain’t cool.

Well, he talked about his personal experience, that he has backtracking immunity, he did not try to force it on you or any other here.

I post on these boards to refine my own opinions and thoughts through discussion and debate, not to discuss personal feelings. You are of course free to do otherwise.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I played many jrpgs full of backtracking and random battles every 2 steps, those p&c adventure games will never annoy me with their backtracking.

just another of the many pieces of evidence that jrpgs fry your brain

don't do jrpgs kids

 

[Tramboi]

The point was not about backtracking (IMO it's desirable for complexity and puzzling), it was how backtracking is made *better* by fast travel.

 

[Darkozric]

refine

After 30 years of gaming he needs to "refine" his opinions. You and the rest of the decliners can't refine shit.

 

[Darkozric]

don't do jrpgs kids

Yeah don't smoke jrpgs kids, go smoke roguelike abominations, they are good for the brain.

 

[lightbane]

just another of the many pieces of evidence that jrpgs fry your brain

don't do jrpgs kids

Are CRPGs with writing that make Bioware's drivel look good better then? What about Jrpgs with minimal/no backtracking?

 

[Darth Roxor]

don't do jrpgs kids

Yeah don't smoke jrpgs kids, go smoke roguelike abominations, they are good for the brain.

spotted the weeb

Are CRPGs with writing that make Bioware's drivel look good better then?

unironically yes

 

[jfrisby]

I don't mind backtracking - it does exist in real life. It probably feels better in something like Gabriel Knight, with 30+ hotspots on every screen vs LEC stuff.
I'm also iffy on fast travel.. maps are okay, or double click to walk-faster/run stuff... But the edge-of-screen teleports just seem to remind me how slow everything else is, and undermines the exploration and patience genre relies on...

 

[Viata]

I played many jrpgs full of backtracking and random battles every 2 steps, those p&c adventure games will never annoy me with their backtracking.

just another of the many pieces of evidence that jrpgs fry your brain

don't do jrpgs kids

That is why I have not played Planescape: Torment for years.

 

[Darkozric]

spotted the weeb

I don't speak "weeb" but if you want to discuss about weed I know a few things. Actually, it's unlikely that I have played more than 3-4 jrpgs in my whole life.

 

[Tramboi]

I don't mind backtracking - it does exist in real life. It probably feels better in something like Gabriel Knight, with 30+ hotspots on every screen vs LEC stuff.
I'm also iffy on fast travel.. maps are okay, or double click to walk-faster/run stuff... But the edge-of-screen teleports just seem to remind me how slow everything else is, and undermines the exploration and patience genre relies on...

Anyway, I see no reason not to implement it, and you can leave it as an option. Like hints.

 

[Alex]

Backtracking being a slog, funnily enough, became an issue with point and click adventures. Text parser ones usually allow you to move around pretty quickly. In fact, in some (well, all I remember) of them you can chain together commands, so with a single line of text, you could move all across the map. This also meshed well with games that allowed you to enter a "dead state", that is, a state where the game is no longer winnable. Unlike point and click games, if you have good notes for the game, you can go back to where you are with some 50 commands depending on where you were in the game, which doesn't take more than a minute to input.

 

[talan]

A lot of modern adventure games have a more linear structure with smaller areas where you never get more than 5 rooms or so at once, which only have 2-4 puzzles at once. Then you proceed to the next area which has a similar amount of puzzles, and so on and so forth.

Both of the original Monkey Island games have much larger areas where you get lots of different puzzles at the same time.
In MI1 you can explore all of Melee Island from the start, with only a few areas locked by puzzles (gotta get the rubber chicken to go over to Meathook's, gotta give the fish to the troll to pass the bridge). The first major goal is to accomplish the three trials, and those can be approached in any order you want. You might even stumble upon the solution of one trial while you're looking for the solution of another!
In MI2, the same applies to Scabb Island. You gotta make a voodoo doll of Largo, which requires several parts. You're free to seek out those parts in whichever order you like.

Both games are very open in their structure.

Please understand that it's a product of it's time. They just didn't have the technology for all of those locked doors and closed environments.

I'm sure in this new (and improved) game you'll get stuck in a small room with 3 items max to get out (but don't worry, 2 items just give you a funny joke).

 

[Boleskine]

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

I've always thought that these are the Men of Low Moral Fiber.

 

[MRY]

It's almost certainly who they were intended to be, but the art doesn't perfectly match (as is common in covers).

I honestly don't know what to make of the "we need to break away and create something new" art pitch with this kind of weird fan service stuff (fittingly crystalized in Stan). As long as Ron is making as much money and having as much fun as it sounds, then I'm glad -- I wish all the devs whose games I loved as a kid got these late-stage paydays, and fortunately things have been pretty good in that regard.

 

[Rincewind]

Even zork has it, though any notion of story in that game is more like a second thought;

And I'd say that's how it should always be *in a game*, puzzles >= story, but never the other way. Otherwise, you'd get Disco ElysiumI seriously and unironically prefer 99% gameplay 1% "story" games these days, e.g. old C64 platformers (they certainly had 1% story, or even more). The Scott Adams school of adventure games are also great, and old text adventures in general.

 

[Rincewind]

Here are some example screenshots from other adventure games, most of them made by small studios at a likely much lower budget than Return to Monkey Island.

Cheers bro, that's a great list. I've been out of touch with more modern adventure games for a long while, I'm gonna check out these. The art looks gorgeous in all of them, at the very least.

 

[Falksi]