Return To Monkey Island - MI2 sequel from Ron Gilbert

[Antigoon]

16,000 simultaneous Steam players

Is Steamcharts busted or unreliable, or are you full of shit? Honest question.

I enjoyed Primordia and I didn't even pirate it, so take it easy.

13,000 peak concurrent players (yesterday) according to Steamspy. No idea which site is more accurate.

https://steamspy.com/app/2060130

 

[Darkozric]

I would never make a game like this because I don’t like it.

For me, game development is a hobby/passion

Metaphors, allegories, solve some casual puzzles in a tiny carnival , a few more metaphors, some additional allegories, repeat the loop of nonsense. A whole fucking 4 hours - Hobby/passion Muhsterpiece!
Imagine if it wasn't a -passion/hobby- Muhsterpiece. Dude is the real shit.

 

[Alpan]

I'm impressed by the tenacity with which people in this thread cling to their preconceptions even after they have a real chance to confirm or revise them, including MRY, who should know better.

The game is released. You now have a choice as so-called Monkey Island veterans, claiming to know what Monkey Island is supposed to be about, to give the game a try and form an informed opinion rather than embarking on the hundredth instance of motivated reasoning about how it's a betrayal of what you think Monkey Island is. It's a good opportunity to see if you were right. Hell, act in the spirit of the game and pirate it.

But if you refuse to do even this, then, at this point, what exactly is your opinion even based on? What don't you like when you say you don't like the game? Not the game itself, that is for certain; after all, you haven't played it. And it's not like RMI promised a break from what Monkey Island was, quite the opposite in fact; something the reviews are also attesting to.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm impressed by the tenacity with which people in this thread cling to their preconceptions even after they have a real chance to confirm or revise them, including MRY, who should know better.

The game is released. You now have a choice as so-called Monkey Island veterans, claiming to know what Monkey Island is supposed to be about, to give the game a try and form an informed opinion rather than embarking on the hundredth instance of motivated reasoning about how it's a betrayal of what you think Monkey Island is. It's a good opportunity to see if you were right. Hell, act in the spirit of the game and pirate it.

But if you refuse to do even this, then, at this point, what exactly is your opinion even based on? What don't you like when you say you don't like the game? Not the game itself, that is for certain; after all, you haven't played it. And it's not like RMI promised a break from what Monkey Island was, quite the opposite in fact; something the reviews are also attesting to.

maybe they have no interest in playing a game made by someone who insults them?

 

[Alpan]

Obviously, that expresses an opinion about Ron Gilbert, not the game.

 

[MRY]

Alpan Why would I play the game? I didn’t play EMI, TMI, QFGV, KQ8, SQ6, GK3, most of the Police Quests, SpaceVenture, Hero-U, not to mention Unavowed, any of Grundislav’s games, most of Steve A’s games, most of Daedelic’s catalog, etc. And I skipped most of those titles back when I had much more time than I have now. The only way I was going to play this game was if I felt very powerfully drawn to it (I don’t) or if the kids were interested in playing it together (they aren’t; they shared the view that it looked like tremendous decline, which is saying a lot since they prefer the remakes of MI1 and 2).

The discussion about the game pre release wasn’t about the game; it was about the relationship of devs and players. I have much more interest in that topic than this game.

 

[Hellion]

 

[Alex]

Adventure games have been dead for quite a while.

I don't think they are, still are some released - can see the thread with them in this forum, for example. Not saying they're all gems or anything but that's not the criteria for a genre to be dead, no ?

I would say that a genre that fails to produce any "gems" for over 10 years is, actually, dead in a quite concrete way.

Nevertheless, I am willing to be lenient and merely ask for something on par with the older games. Most adventure games I've tried in the last ten years are actually way too short and compartmentalised to really fit this bill. Maybe I just haven't tried the correct ones, but the only "recent" games I've tried that came anywhere close were Thinbleweed Park, Heroine's Quest and those Deponia games. And even then, they tended to be more on the easier, more linear side of things.

Mind you, simpler games like Primordia do have their place and I bear MRY no I'll will. But still, a bunch of simpler games like Primordia or the Blackwell series do not make up for a single big game.

 

[WallaceChambers]

Played through the game and it was great. I think Ron leveraged nostalgia successfully to tell a story about him and MI fans getting older and reflecting on the series' impact. People saying the recurring locations and characters are cheap/lazy member-berries are giving the game short shrift, it's done with thoughtful consideration and successfully establishes the games themes about maturing, looking back on your past and reevaluating what your priorities are compared what they once were. People who have come to hate Ron won't like a story that's in large part his personal reflections on life and creativity told in the form of a fun pirate adventure, but it works well.

I really like the new characters, especially the members of LeChuck's ghost crew and most especially Gullet. Puzzle wise, it starts out easy and gets more challenging during Chapter 4, when the game opens up to you exploring ~5 islands and doing multiple concurrent puzzle chains with a big inventory. It's well balanced, a good challenge with nothing I'd consider unfair. I got through the game on hard mode without using the hint system. There's a few that could stump you if you're not prone to exhausting all dialogue for clues or remembering details from some hours back.

The art style wound up being very hit or miss. I do think a lot of the environments look quite nice, especially with the subtle parallax and the camera movement / little animated touches. Still, others look like a hot mess of awkward angles and uncomfortable composition. Guybrush and Carla's designs are especially crap to me. Others like Elaine and Stan are better conversions to this style.

The ending is already a subject of debate from impressions I've seen of people who've played the game. It's very Ron Gilbert-y, I think it delivers on the thematic level but is really jarring in terms of the mometemum of Guybrush and LeChuck's final confrontation. It's clearly intended to be that way, as certain lines in the end game suggest. It's an ending that prompts you to think on what you personally make of the story's message rather than giving you immediate satisfaction. I like it more as I've reflected on the game today. But I think there could've been a way to have the satisfying conclusion while still retaining, not all, but most of the theme they were going for.

Think I'm gonna jump in again and do another run. Really fun game, I'm glad Ron, Dave & Co. pulled it off and happy they're getting well deserved positive reception from it.

 

[Darkozric]

 

[eviltentacle]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles releases a pixel art game in 2022, gets great reviews from players and game journalists and sells over a million copies but we can’t have pixel art Monkey Island, ThAt WoUld Be a ThrOwBacK. As if it would not have sold just as well or better with pixel art.

The desire to appear cutting edge and modern is what made every game have to be 3D in the early 2000s and spawned the graphical horrors that are Gabriel Knight 3, Simon the Sorcerer 3D and Escape. Now we’re back in the same position, we can’t have pixel art, that’s old shit, we have to have new shit.

Pixel art is just another medium choice, like oil paint or watercolours, it’s really annoying that it gets shat on like this and dismissed as outdated.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

I would say that a genre that fails to produce any "gems" for over 10 years is, actually, dead in a quite concrete way.

Nevertheless, I am willing to be lenient and merely ask for something on par with the older games. Most adventure games I've tried in the last ten years are actually way too short and compartmentalised to really fit this bill. Maybe I just haven't tried the correct ones, but the only "recent" games I've tried that came anywhere close were Thinbleweed Park, Heroine's Quest and those Deponia games. And even then, they tended to be more on the easier, more linear side of things.

Isn't that true of most genres these days? I can't say I've seen many games that stand out in general and it seems like even some normies aren't enjoying the latest and greatest games.
Personally, I'd say that Counterfeit Monkey was a gem, and I've heard very good things about both Obduction and Return of the Obra Dinn, but they wouldn't run on my machine last I checked.
Seems like we had a topic a while ago about effectively the same subject, since if its got good puzzles in this day and age its probably a gem. But I can't say I've played most of them. (though I will say that the original Rhem was probably the closest I've gotten to a non-Myst series title getting close to it in terms of puzzles)

 

[Alex]

I would say that a genre that fails to produce any "gems" for over 10 years is, actually, dead in a quite concrete way.

Nevertheless, I am willing to be lenient and merely ask for something on par with the older games. Most adventure games I've tried in the last ten years are actually way too short and compartmentalised to really fit this bill. Maybe I just haven't tried the correct ones, but the only "recent" games I've tried that came anywhere close were Thinbleweed Park, Heroine's Quest and those Deponia games. And even then, they tended to be more on the easier, more linear side of things.

Isn't that true of most genres these days? I can't say I've seen many games that stand out in general and it seems like even some normies aren't enjoying the latest and greatest games.
Personally, I'd say that Counterfeit Monkey was a gem, and I've heard very good things about both Obduction and Return of the Obra Dinn, but they wouldn't run on my machine last I checked.
Seems like we had a topic a while ago about effectively the same subject, since if its got good puzzles in this day and age its probably a gem. But I can't say I've played most of them. (though I will say that the original Rhem was probably the closest I've gotten to a non-Myst series title getting close to it in terms of puzzles)

This is a good point and I would like to correct myself. Obra Dinn is indeed, I would say, quite the gem. It is also very much an adventure game (I don't know anything about the other two games, but I will at least check them out). For that matter, Heroine's Quest is a pretty good gem as well, and Primordia does have a few good moments! My point though is a bit more specific, though. Obra Dinn, while a great game, is not really a "classic" adventure game. It is too focused on one mechanic to fit that role, and that one mechanic therefore determines how the entire game is played. This is not a bad thing at all, it worked great for Obra Dinn. But it doesn't fill the vacuum left by games point and click games from the 90s (just as these don't quite fill the void left by text games from the 80s).

I am sorry for not being clear from the beginning. I am not trying to just shift goalposts here, but point out a specific kind of game that I hardly ever see attempted nowadays. Now if I am wrong about this and there are lots, or at least a few of this kind of game out there, then that is great! I would love to play some new ones (though to be honest, I do have a backlog to clear as well, but that is not a problem).

 

[Jermu]

I can't imagine anyone sitting down and bothering to design dozens of complex interlocking puzzles and making them all this easy.

I saw someone stream that 5-minutes of looking about and forgot to redo it on my playthrough

Maybe dont watch walkthrough next time so puzzles might take a little bit longer to solve

95% of steam reviews are positive which makes sense considering how casual/retard friendly this game is

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

I would say that a genre that fails to produce any "gems" for over 10 years is, actually, dead in a quite concrete way.

Nevertheless, I am willing to be lenient and merely ask for something on par with the older games. Most adventure games I've tried in the last ten years are actually way too short and compartmentalised to really fit this bill. Maybe I just haven't tried the correct ones, but the only "recent" games I've tried that came anywhere close were Thinbleweed Park, Heroine's Quest and those Deponia games. And even then, they tended to be more on the easier, more linear side of things.

Isn't that true of most genres these days? I can't say I've seen many games that stand out in general and it seems like even some normies aren't enjoying the latest and greatest games.
Personally, I'd say that Counterfeit Monkey was a gem, and I've heard very good things about both Obduction and Return of the Obra Dinn, but they wouldn't run on my machine last I checked.
Seems like we had a topic a while ago about effectively the same subject, since if its got good puzzles in this day and age its probably a gem. But I can't say I've played most of them. (though I will say that the original Rhem was probably the closest I've gotten to a non-Myst series title getting close to it in terms of puzzles)

This is a good point and I would like to correct myself. Obra Dinn is indeed, I would say, quite the gem. It is also very much an adventure game (I don't know anything about the other two games, but I will at least check them out). For that matter, Heroine's Quest is a pretty good gem as well, and Primordia does have a few good moments! My point though is a bit more specific, though. Obra Dinn, while a great game, is not really a "classic" adventure game. It is too focused on one mechanic to fit that role, and that one mechanic therefore determines how the entire game is played. This is not a bad thing at all, it worked great for Obra Dinn. But it doesn't fill the vacuum left by games point and click games from the 90s (just as these don't quite fill the void left by text games from the 80s).

I am sorry for not being clear from the beginning. I am not trying to just shift goalposts here, but point out a specific kind of game that I hardly ever see attempted nowadays. Now if I am wrong about this and there are lots, or at least a few of this kind of game out there, then that is great! I would love to play some new ones (though to be honest, I do have a backlog to clear as well, but that is not a problem).

I think that you're actually being quite reasonable about it, since you're asking about a specific thing I tend to think of in a more general term. I definitely see these new point and clicks, but generally don't play them simply because I primarily on old games. The new ones I've ended up playing tend to be quite awful.

 

[Rocket-Propelled Game]

Greetings, first post.

Do games like Until Dawn count under the same genre, for my knowledge?

 

[zeitgeist]

As for the question what supporting Monkey Island got players, the answer is LeChuck’s Revenge, Curse of Monkey Island, Escape from Money Island, Tales of Monkey Island, two remasters, and a slew of adventures imitating its irreverent tone and style. “Okay but I didn’t like all of those.” If you liked *any* of them then you benefited from the support players gave MI.

How? Describe the exact mechanics. How does paying Developer #1 for a game after he already made it, and it's already published, lead to Developer #5 developing a similar game "imitating its tone and style" 20 years later for example? I'm not even going into your sequel theory because it's been proven wrong by the existence of RTMI. I don't know why you even bothered to name the other sequels/remakes, just to show that you've heard of them?

And clearly Developer #5 has similar aesthetic sensibilities, or played the game and liked it enough to copy it, but how does that relate to my money leaving my pocket and depositing itself into Developer #1's pocket? How come Developer #1 made the original game with none of said money changing hands prior to making it then?

 

[coldcrow]

4th wall breaking should be used in strong moderation.
I could stomach the game for the tutorial + 5 mins. Visual style is just an excuse to not have to draw appealing somewhat realistic 2.5D stuff. Sound is tolerable but really not great, you could expand on those old themes.
Writing...
Left/Right click gameplay....
I rather play through MI1&2 again and again than touching this shit.

 

[MRY]

As for the question what supporting Monkey Island got players, the answer is LeChuck’s Revenge, Curse of Monkey Island, Escape from Money Island, Tales of Monkey Island, two remasters, and a slew of adventures imitating its irreverent tone and style. “Okay but I didn’t like all of those.” If you liked *any* of them then you benefited from the support players gave MI.

How? Describe the exact mechanics. How does paying Developer #1 for a game after he already made it, and it's already published, lead to Developer #5 developing a similar game "imitating its tone and style" 20 years later for example? I'm not even going into your sequel theory because it's been proven wrong by the existence of RTMI. I don't know why you even bothered to name the other sequels/remakes, just to show that you've heard of them?

And clearly Developer #5 has similar aesthetic sensibilities, or played the game and liked it enough to copy it, but how does that relate to my money leaving my pocket and depositing itself into Developer #1's pocket? How come Developer #1 made the original game with none of said money changing hands prior to making it then?

If you don’t think that fans buying and positively engaging with The Secret of Monkey Island had any causal relationship to LeChuck’s Revenge getting made, I don’t know how to persuade you. Our disagreement is about such a seemingly fundamental fact of everyday life that if you’ve made it this far and disbelieve it, and I’ve made it this far and believe it, our roads are too far apart to cross. Sorry.

 

[The BRM]

Just finished it having played the MI games since the 1990s.

Rather disappointing. Not just because of the art, but because of the lazy design. None of the environments were stand outs at all. They were bland and boring.

Story is ok. Ending is bad. Worst in the series except for Escape.

As a sequal to 1 and 2 it is mid. Laughed once or twice.

Did I mention the art doesn't fit MI? It was like Gilbert looked at the people complaining about how the art sucked post MI2 and said hold my beer.

Biggest disappointment since Broken Age.

 

[The BRM]

It is probably going to be the most successful non-first-person adventure game of all time,

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. But yeah, it's doing VERY well. I wouldn't actually mind another, but just Grossman please. Keep RON far away from it.

 

[Boleskine]

 

[Mary Sue Leigh]

If I read this right, it does seem to do much better than Thimbleweed Park did on release. Which Gilbert was also involved with.
Maybe brand recognition does play a part in it..
No, that's stupid. It's gotta be the art style and Gilbert flinging insults.

 

[ADULF HITLOR FAN KLUB]

it does seem to do much better than Thimbleweed Park did on release.

Nostalgia sells well.

Anyway, Return to Monkey Island has fallen behind Trombone Champ and Construction Simulator after two days. I guess we can now rule out that the game will be a big hit.

 

[Darkozric]

It seems that sensitive MRYfags are kind of upset with my comments. Nevertheless, I must inform you that you can't demand from someone -especially me- to stop posting without trading it with something. Don't be such predictable cheap bitches.

Here's how it goes, if you manage to bring Dave Gilbert here to share his opinion about RtMI with us, I fucking promise to all of you I'll stop posting. But don't even fucking think of bringing a fake alt account pretending to be Gilbert, I want the real faggot!

-I WILL know if he's a fake faggot-

Bring him here and I'll be gone. If you don't, forgetti.