sawyer wants rpg to evolve

[Luckmann]

Exactly, it’s an arrogant and territorial attitude that only makes even more difficult to attract new players.

Fuck new sales

Fixed.

Desire for sales is the one true driving force of decline.

Glad to have you onboard, Comrade. Just on time for May 1 too.

Daily reminder that 1st of May is a holiday thanks to Adolf Hitler, not some commissariat kike.

fantadomat, that's not in dispute. What is is if everyone at HBS is like that or worse.

Don't be such a fucking retard. No-one was discussing "everyone at HBS", but when a Lead Designer of a company are making comments about the game they are actually working on, they are representatives of this company and that game whether they like it or not, and the fact that they were clearly not reprimanded for it says absolutely everything we need to know in this regard. Quit grasping at straws in order to down-play their behavior.

How does people like that get hired? Idk maybe I am a bigot but having a man dressed as a woman in an interview among others candidates would seriously try my objectivity.

They get hired because "Oh how progressive!" and "This totally fills our doubleplusgood diversity-quota and it makes me feel all fuzzy inside!" No actual merits or value is implied whatsoever.

 

[mondblut]

How does people like that get hired? Idk maybe I am a bigot but having a man dressed as a woman in an interview among others candidates would seriously try my objectivity.

When a game expectably flops, they can always explain to their investors it was because of Trump and evil white cishet men, not because they made a game their target auditory recoils away from.

 

[ColonelTeacup]

How does people like that get hired? Idk maybe I am a bigot but having a man dressed as a woman in an interview among others candidates would seriously try my objectivity.

made a game their target auditory recoils away from.

I don't understand? Is the music really that bad?

 

[mondblut]

Beamdog is a particularly good example since none of their content is too egregious by itself, but they started the fire themselves by publicly preaching the SJW. That one line on a minor NPC would have just been funny otherwise and gone unnoticed.
Harebrained in Battletech with the pronouns is similar, most people would just chuckle at "They" and not think twice about it, but they make a big deal and draw attention to it.

Agreed. There is actually nothing in the GAME that made that person a tranny in Siege of Dragonspear. Seriously, all she said was she was raised as a boy, which happens in some cultures in real life. Yes, she went into the typical new age shit of "each syllable of my name means something in some old language", but that can be easily dismissed as a young kid trying to impress a known hero. In fact, I think there is a response to that that was along the lines of "O-kay... That was creepy. I'll be going now." It was cuckdog that specifically spelt out that she was a tranny, which changed the way that turned that conversation was read into "Hi! I'm, a tranny!"

Wait, is the thing recruitable? What happens when you put the Girdle on it? This should be on youtube for everyone to laugh at.

 

[FeelTheRads]

The problem is that casuals thinks that "quality of life" is essentially a built-in cheat-mode or something where the game plays itself for you. Most often when people cry for "QOL! QOL!" it's about them wanting to cheat, but without being called cheaters.

This.


Also, don't forget, retards, that you're the player. You're not the developers. And you're not the fucking investors. You should care about the game not about how many millions it makes. How in the fuck is "attracting new players" supposed to be good for me in any way? As we've seen those "new players" often think they know better and want to change everything to their liking so I can very well do without them.
Let's not ever forget that exactly because games started to be adapted to the average moron either by "making them easier to understand" or by straight out dumbing them out it's why the average moron now dictates how new games are made.

How about, for a fucking change, making games for people who like games, rather than go hunting for people who don't like them but want to be part of the "gaming culture"?

Also if a company needs to sells to half the Earth's population to survive, perhaps they're doing it wrong, because they need those hundreds of millions of dollars to be able to keep the average moron interested.

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

Also, don't forget, retards, that you're the player. You're not the developers. And you're not the fucking investors. You should care about the game not about how many millions it makes. How in the fuck is "attracting new players" supposed to be good for me in any way?

It is necessary for the survival of the genre, you obtuse cretin. When people like us die, the genre will be completely dead. Not dead like we say now, about selling less, but it will impossible to make any kind of profit. You keep using this retard all or nothing rethoric, as if cRPG developers were supposed to make a vow of poverty. You have a short sighted vision. There are many players our there that want to play the same games you do but weren't teached it yet, but you want to rage against the world because everyone else must be popamole.

As we've seen those "new players" often think they know better and want to change everything to their liking so I can very well do without them. Let's not ever forget that exactly because games started to be adapted to the average moron either by "making them easier to understand" or by straight out dumbing them out it's why the average moron now dictates how new games are made. How about, for a fucking change, making games for people who like games, rather than go hunting for people who don't like them but want to be part of the "gaming culture"?Also if a company needs to sells to half the Earth's population to survive, perhaps they're doing it wrong

Apples and oranges. I'm talking about making better tutorials and explaining better engrossing combat mechanics, not removing such mechanics or stats, like Tim Cain, for instance. This is self-evident, only a retard that want to be special in an audience of six people would suggest something different.

 

[Ninjerk]

The problem is that casuals thinks that "quality of life" is essentially a built-in cheat-mode or something where the game plays itself for you. Most often when people cry for "QOL! QOL!" it's about them wanting to cheat, but without being called cheaters.

This.


Also, don't forget, retards, that you're the player. You're not the developers. And you're not the fucking investors. You should care about the game not about how many millions it makes. How in the fuck is "attracting new players" supposed to be good for me in any way? As we've seen those "new players" often think they know better and want to change everything to their liking so I can very well do without them.
Let's not ever forget that exactly because games started to be adapted to the average moron either by "making them easier to understand" or by straight out dumbing them out it's why the average moron now dictates how new games are made.

How about, for a fucking change, making games for people who like games, rather than go hunting for people who don't like them but want to be part of the "gaming culture"?

Also if a company needs to sells to half the Earth's population to survive, perhaps they're doing it wrong, because they need those hundreds of millions of dollars to be able to keep the average moron interested.

same argument that was trotted out before DXHR and after FO3

"bbut Ninjerk if it gets a bigger budget it can be a bigger game"

NO. To the Tree of Woe

 

[Neanderthal]

B.b.b.but the game should play itself and never involve or challenge me, because rpgs are so hard and obtuse, they're not just a few clicks of a mouse, they're terrible, gruelling, sisyphean struggles against enigmatic systems that Newton would struggle to understand. Make them easier so I can sit back with my pop and crisps and just watch.

Do you know in F:NV I had to click the mouse a few times to change money! I'm still mentally scarred.

The horror, the horror.

 

[ColonelTeacup]

B.b.b.but the game should play itself and never involve or challenge me, because rpgs are so hard and obtuse, they're not just a few clicks of a mouse, they're terrible, gruelling, sisyphean struggles against enigmatic systems that Newton would struggle to understand. Make them easier so I can sit back with my pop and crisps and just watch.

Do you know in F:NV I had to click the mouse a few times to change money! I'm still mentally scarred.

The horror, the horror.

FNV scarred my mind with its monetary conversion rates.

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/96937-to-josh-sawyer-about-latest-interview/

 

[fantadomat]

The problem is that casuals thinks that "quality of life" is essentially a built-in cheat-mode or something where the game plays itself for you. Most often when people cry for "QOL! QOL!" it's about them wanting to cheat, but without being called cheaters.

This.


Also, don't forget, retards, that you're the player. You're not the developers. And you're not the fucking investors. You should care about the game not about how many millions it makes. How in the fuck is "attracting new players" supposed to be good for me in any way? As we've seen those "new players" often think they know better and want to change everything to their liking so I can very well do without them.
Let's not ever forget that exactly because games started to be adapted to the average moron either by "making them easier to understand" or by straight out dumbing them out it's why the average moron now dictates how new games are made.

How about, for a fucking change, making games for people who like games, rather than go hunting for people who don't like them but want to be part of the "gaming culture"?

Also if a company needs to sells to half the Earth's population to survive, perhaps they're doing it wrong, because they need those hundreds of millions of dollars to be able to keep the average moron interested.

But if they listen only to the fans the game will be played by a dozen of people. There should be balance,between marketability and staying true to the core. It is pretty tough thing to accomplish,still the devs should stride to achieve it. RPG devs running out of business doesn't help anyone.

 

[ColonelTeacup]

If that were the case, how could they have accrued so many fans for the first game to be a success? It is not as if they must implement all the ridiculous requests sent to them by "fans", rather keep within the spirit of the games mechanics, plot, lore, and remaining consistent in its mechanics, difficulty, features, etc. It's the hope of an even higher payout to ridiculous portions that pushes developers to continually casualize their game, until it becomes to casualized that it has become like Fallout 4 where even casuals shit on the game.

 

[Cael]

Agreed. There is actually nothing in the GAME that made that person a tranny in Siege of Dragonspear. Seriously, all she said was she was raised as a boy, which happens in some cultures in real life. Yes, she went into the typical new age shit of "each syllable of my name means something in some old language", but that can be easily dismissed as a young kid trying to impress a known hero. In fact, I think there is a response to that that was along the lines of "O-kay... That was creepy. I'll be going now." It was cuckdog that specifically spelt out that she was a tranny, which changed the way that turned that conversation was read into "Hi! I'm, a tranny!"

Wait, is the thing recruitable? What happens when you put the Girdle on it? This should be on youtube for everyone to laugh at.

I believe it is recruitable. I don't know about the girdle, but I won't be surprised if someone tried and had a good laugh, and cuckdog immediately made a patch that made it invulnerable to the girdle due to the magic used to make it a tranny or some lame excuse like that. They have had form before in BG2:EE when they made their special snowflakes immune to being kidnapped by Bodhi.

 

[Cael]

What the hell, man?

He turned from androgynous to Mrs Doubtfire? Dear Lord, Kevin! Lay off the twinks - I mean, Twinkies!

 

[agentorange]

Probably the exact same. It's only that in the upper picture he has chosen the most flattering perspective possible, the one women (especially fat ones) always use to make their face appear more slim.

 

[Cael]

Probably the exact same. It's only that in the upper picture he has chosen the most flattering perspective possible, the one women always use to make their face appear more slim.

I don't know much about perspectives in photography, but wouldn't it be pretty hard to conceal the sidelobe jowls? Those things on him looks worse than that on a 2 GW radio transmitter...

 

[Cael]

But if they listen only to the fans the game will be played by a dozen of people. There should be balance,between marketability and staying true to the core. It is pretty tough thing to accomplish,still the devs should stride to achieve it. RPG devs running out of business doesn't help anyone.

It depends on the game.

Master of Orion 2, for example, would have a player base in the hundreds of thousands if all they did was to improve the AI, graphics and tinkered around with minor changes (Creative costing more than 6 picks, PLEASE!!!). Change that to a new engine with new philosophies and all sorts of whizz-bangs gave us the unmentionable MoO3, which bombed hard.

Master of Magic is another one that would benefit from updated graphics, memory handling, and minor tweaks to some numbers. The fans are not even asking for more than that. By trying new stuff, we got the flaming wreckage that is War of the Elementals.

And then there is XCom Apocalypse, which is still unique in its physics engine, but instead of continuing with it, they went with the console-style nuXCom shit.

I won't mention Fallout Tactics because that would just make me curl up in the foetal position in the corner.

There are a number of games that are pretty damned good already in their last form that did not require massive changes. What they required was more chapters of the story or updated graphics and array handling (Master of Magic, for example, as a max unit number of 1000, which is easily reached when you have 5 civs on the 2 maps; Civ3's max unit number was about 2.1k, IIRC; XCom Apocalypse also had a global max unit number, something like 50 or so, which you can EASILY hit if you play hoverbike swarm and which resulted in NO alien ships appearing ever again).

 

[FeelTheRads]

Also, don't forget, retards, that you're the player. You're not the developers. And you're not the fucking investors. You should care about the game not about how many millions it makes. How in the fuck is "attracting new players" supposed to be good for me in any way?

It is necessary for the survival of the genre, you obtuse cretin. When people like us die, the genre will be completely dead. Not dead like we say now, about selling less, but it will
impossible to make any kind of profit.

Again, how is this supposed to help me? Assuming I'm also dead doesn't really help making me care.

You keep using this retard all or nothing rethoric, as if cRPG developers were supposed to make a vow of poverty.

Bullshit strawman. What, all developers who made actual RPGs are poor, or what? How come RPGs could be made before without the average moron involved but now it's not possible anymore?

You have a short sighted vision. There are many players our there that want to play the same games you do but weren't teached it yet, but you want to rage against the world because everyone else must be popamole.

Bullshit again. How did "we" learn? Who was there to "teach" us?

As we've seen those "new players" often think they know better and want to change everything to their liking so I can very well do without them. Let's not ever forget that exactly because games started to be adapted to the average moron either by "making them easier to understand" or by straight out dumbing them out it's why the average moron now dictates how new games are made. How about, for a fucking change, making games for people who like games, rather than go hunting for people who don't like them but want to be part of the "gaming culture"?Also if a company needs to sells to half the Earth's population to survive, perhaps they're doing it wrong

Apples and oranges. I'm talking about making better tutorials and explaining better engrossing combat mechanics, not removing such mechanics or stats, like Tim Cain, for instance. This is self-evident, only a retard that want to be special in an audience of six people would suggest something different.

I'm talking about how doing that invites lower and lower classes of idiots in, which in the end means we have discussions about how RPGs are about reading stories with multiple paths and romances. And we have Bioware and Bethesda.
I hope you realize that's not really the genre surviving and it's better off dead.

But if they listen only to the fans the game will be played by a dozen of people. There should be balance,between marketability and staying true to the core. It is pretty tough thing to accomplish,still the devs should stride to achieve it. RPG devs running out of business doesn't help anyone.

It's running after a holy grail. Looks like if you stay small you can survive. I'm pretty sure more than a dozen people played Underrail or Vogel's games, and I'd rather play those than wait for the next "plz buy this so we don't go out of business, we'll totally make a good game NEXT TIME" masterpiece of RPG design from Obshitian.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

It's running after a holy grail. Looks like if you stay small you can survive. I'm pretty sure more than a dozen people played Underrail or Vogel's games, and I'd rather play those than wait for the next "plz buy this so we don't go out of business, we'll totally make a good game NEXT TIME" masterpiece of RPG design from Obshitian.

When was the last time Vogel made a new game? It may not be a viable business model anymore now that Steam has opened the floodgates to tons of budget-tier titles. And Underrail may be hard to duplicate; one guy devoting years of his life to a project is kind of fucked if the game doesn’t sell. For every Underrail there are half a dozen Krai Miras.

If your only hope is that enthusiastic amateurs will keep taking huge financial risks to make the games you want, you might as well give up now.

 

[fantadomat]

But if they listen only to the fans the game will be played by a dozen of people. There should be balance,between marketability and staying true to the core. It is pretty tough thing to accomplish,still the devs should stride to achieve it. RPG devs running out of business doesn't help anyone.

It depends on the game.

Master of Orion 2, for example, would have a player base in the hundreds of thousands if all they did was to improve the AI, graphics and tinkered around with minor changes (Creative costing more than 6 picks, PLEASE!!!). Change that to a new engine with new philosophies and all sorts of whizz-bangs gave us the unmentionable MoO3, which bombed hard.

Master of Magic is another one that would benefit from updated graphics, memory handling, and minor tweaks to some numbers. The fans are not even asking for more than that. By trying new stuff, we got the flaming wreckage that is War of the Elementals.

And then there is XCom Apocalypse, which is still unique in its physics engine, but instead of continuing with it, they went with the console-style nuXCom shit.

I won't mention Fallout Tactics because that would just make me curl up in the foetal position in the corner.

There are a number of games that are pretty damned good already in their last form that did not require massive changes. What they required was more chapters of the story or updated graphics and array handling (Master of Magic, for example, as a max unit number of 1000, which is easily reached when you have 5 civs on the 2 maps; Civ3's max unit number was about 2.1k, IIRC; XCom Apocalypse also had a global max unit number, something like 50 or so, which you can EASILY hit if you play hoverbike swarm and which resulted in NO alien ships appearing ever again).

There is a good reason for them to be classics mate,i am not arguing about changing them. I am saying that the times have changed,if someone make exact game as say MoO and call it something else,it will not sell well. Expectations do change with the times,there quite the number of improvement from the golden age.....mainly a UI ones. That is why i don't give them too much shit about the full voice acting in PoE2. It is a necessary modernisation,after all they have to stay competitive in the industry. I am more worried about the writing modernisation,hope that is not filled with tumblr retardation and sjw propaganda. Combat will be....decent with bugs. Also you are overestimating the number of people that will buy a MoO remaster,the same way numanuma devs did. Sales of such games are niche of a niche.

 

[Cael]

There is a good reason for them to be classics mate,i am not arguing about changing them. I am saying that the times have changed,if someone make exact game as say MoO and call it something else,it will not sell well. Expectations do change with the times,there quite the number of improvement from the golden age.....mainly a UI ones. That is why i don't give them too much shit about the full voice acting in PoE2. It is a necessary modernisation,after all they have to stay competitive in the industry. I am more worried about the writing modernisation,hope that is not filled with tumblr retardation and sjw propaganda. Combat will be....decent with bugs. Also you are overestimating the number of people that will buy a MoO remaster,the same way numanuma devs did. Sales of such games are niche of a niche.

To be honest, I am not a fan of voice acting due to memory/space bloat. It is generally the animation and movies and voice clips that cause games to balloon up in size and memory usage.

Numanuma, from what I understand, was killed by substandard everything. It wasn't a remaster so much as a complete retardation. The name may raise interest, but ultimately, the game has to stand on its own two feet. Fallout is a good example. 1 and 2 gave a lot of interest to 3, but it ended up with Oblivion fans who liked FO3, not FO1/2 fans. Another example is the new HBS game. It generated a lot of hype, but the game is performance hell and will live and die because of that, not because it is CLAIMED to be part of a franchise.

 

[Viata]

A walking sim with role playing is a role playing game to him, yes.

From the guy who thinks Wizardry is not a crpg. And you guys still listen to whatever shit he says.

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

Again, how is this supposed to help me? Assuming I'm also dead doesn't really help making me care.

By increasing the sales of the genre and motivating new talented developers to make grounded cRPGs instead of popamole games; by attracting new players that will discuss the subject with you and make the cRPG community more competitive and interesting; by diminishing the frequency of negative reviews that can affect the sales of the studios you like; by ensuring the survival of the genre which has intrinsic value, otherwise why would you waste so much time playing and discussing it.

Bullshit strawman. What, all developers who made actual RPGs are poor, or what? How come RPGs could be made before without the average moron involved but now it's not possible anymore?

Because in the past players were not co-opted by dozens of new genres that became the norm. That is one of the main reasons why developers need to acknowledge a new role in all of this. They are not just making new cRPGs. They need to teach how to appreciate these games. Even in the past we had manuals, how are tutorials any different? Do you think that making better tutorials will magically altered the character building, or the combat system? Of course not.

Bullshit again. How did "we" learn? Who was there to "teach" us?

Things are different now and you can’t just assume that every new player have the same disposition you have. People are limited. You know what happens every time you bet against the realities of human nature? You lose. If developers think their audience needs no encouragement, they have a smaller audience.

I'm talking about how doing that invites lower and lower classes of idiots in, which in the end means we have discussions about how RPGs are about reading stories with multiple paths and romances. And we have Bioware and Bethesda.

Me: cRPG systems and mechanics can be better presented without changing any of its structure.

You: This will attract idiots that hate cRPG mechanics.

How come? If we were talking about making them simpler, I would accept the criticism, but explaining the mechanics in a more intuitive way doesn’t attract the wrong crowd. The wrong crowd will not survive the learning process.

It's running after a holy grail. Looks like if you stay small you can survive. I'm pretty sure more than a dozen people played Underrail or Vogel's games, and I'd rather play those than wait for the next "plz buy this so we don't go out of business, we'll totally make a good game NEXT TIME" masterpiece of RPG design from Obshitian.

And I’m sure that Styg can have more sales without streamlining his games.

 

[Lyric Suite]

What's with l1bruls and the need to just constantly dumb down shit?

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

What's with l1bruls and the need to just constantly dumb down shit?

Since when tutorial is dumbing down anything? All the classics had detailed and acessible manuals. You notice that people are idiots when the politicize the vocabulary and can't understand anything with nuance any longer. It's the type of mentality you also have with SJW types. The constant need to reassert their loyalty to a political group in unappropriate contexts is a clear sign of lack of intelligence.