Vapourware Scam Citizen - Only people with too much money can become StarCitizens! WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?

[Whiran]

I have no idea why on Earth would they sue for libel unless their legal department is either non-existing or downright incompetent, or if they ignored their advice, either way Chris is not just in a fight with Defy Media but pretty much every single journalist association in the US as well other organizations that fight for the preservation of constitutional freedoms, then again this is very likely trying to scare them into silence, either way ... not a pretty picture from them.

I don't mind.

It's entertaining.

 

[Grimlorn]

Kind of wonder if it's a publicity stunt to get more money for his game through press about the lawsuit. The only other possibility was to make himself seem innocent by defending himself, but this is kind of an odd way to do it since he just makes himself look worse. I forgot the Escapist is owned by a large corporation. If it were just a gaming website, they probably would have had to give in and apologize to avoid a costly lawsuit.

 

[Perkel]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. That they allege those two things in their article are taking place at CIG doesn't alter the requirements to get over First Amendment protections.

Dude those are criminal charges. This isn't "well in my opinion they emblazed money, fuck CiG!!!"
CiGs now checks cards. Either they will apologize or this will go to court and Escapist will need to prove things said.

There is a reason why journalists before such cases have harder proofs than "he said/she said". Emblazement ? Then some papers confirming it usually coming from company/gov accountant and so on and proper source that won't run away from heat when hit will shit the fan.
Even if source will be anonymous they have to have proper vet of them not just by lol security card without any info on it.

Naturally this would be non issue if those people would actually go to journalist school instead of being "lol i wanna be dragon now !"

They said they have 9 sources and for all we know all of those could be Smart because "journalist" didn't actually met them in real life and only checked linkedin and "some sort of card with no info" that they work.

 

[J_C]

pretty much every single journalist association in the US as well other organizations that fight for the preservation of constitutional freedoms, then again this is very likely trying to scare them into silence, either way ... not a pretty picture from them.

Wasn't it mentioned before in this thread that the lawsuit would be filed in the UK, which is a bit more serious than the clowns in the US?

 

[Metro]

Dude those are criminal charges. This isn't "well in my opinion they emblazed money, fuck CiG!!!"
CiGs now checks cards. Either they will apologize or this will go to court and Escapist will need to prove things said.

There is a reason why journalists before such cases have harder proofs than "he said/she said". Emblazement ? Then some papers confirming it usually coming from company/gov accountant and so on and proper source that won't run away from heat when hit will shit the fan.
Even if source will be anonymous they have to have proper vet of them not just by lol security card without any info on it.

Naturally this would be non issue if those people would actually go to journalist school instead of being "lol i wanna be dragon now !"

They said they have 9 sources and for all we know all of those could be Smart because "journalist" didn't actually met them in real life and only checked linkedin and "some sort of card with no info" that they work.

Maybe this is UK law? Because that isn't how US law works. Again, nothing you've said changes the Constitutional standards that apply. You don't need to affirmatively prove criminal activity is going on as a journalist reporting on it. You aren't a prosecutor.

You get sources. You run a story. So long as what you've written was not done with information you KNEW to be false or your sources were so horribly vetted that it's akin to that you're in the clear. The burden is on CIG to prove this, not the Escapist.

It's an overly belligerent demand letter penned by one of Roberts' cronies who happens to be a lawyer. The legal threats are shallow. The libel one is an extreme stretch. The intentional infliction of emotional distress argument is utterly laughable.

Kind of wonder if it's a publicity stunt to get more money for his game through press about the lawsuit.

Bingo.

 

[Chamezero]

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2010/aug/11/medialaw-barack-obama
wouldn't this apply in this case?

 

[Perkel]

Maybe this is UK law? Because that isn't how US law works. Again, nothing you've said changes the Constitutional standards that apply. You don't need to affirmatively prove criminal activity is going on as a journalist reporting on it. You aren't a prosecutor.

You get sources. You run a story. So long as what you've written was not done with information you KNEW to be false or your sources were so horribly vetted that it's akin to that you're in the clear. The burden is on CIG to prove this, not the Escapist.

It's an overly belligerent demand letter penned by one of Roberts' cronies who happens to be a lawyer. The legal threats are shallow. The libel one is an extreme stretch. The intentional infliction of emotional distress argument is utterly laughable.

Bingo.

And this is why CiG responded with threat of lawsuit. Either they will remove text and apologize or they will be sued and they will have to prove they have creditable sources because they will need to have any reasonable proof for:

- embezzlement (good luck with that)
- racially profiling people when hiring (again good luck with that)
- emotional distress and usual mumbo jumbo (this is the thing they can win but if those two above would fail then they will to pay for that)

Press doesn't operate as you think.

Whole reason behind press is to have creditable sources and those sources are the ones that give you "sue-free card" in case of lawsuit. If your sources will fail you have ass wide open to getting sued and "we didn't know this is false" won't work because it is your job to know if this story is actually true or not.

So when lawsuit will happen Escapist will need to either : present proof for above or present their sources. If none of sources will want to take part in it then they are fucked.

 

[Chamezero]

nigger do you live in the same planet as the rest of us? the press always makes up shit and they never face consequences.
the only that's going to happen is the escapist is going to make some half assed apology, roberts is going to keep crying like a bitch acting as if everyone is a smart's sockpuppet going
after him and next month we will have another fuck up and drama, probably related to forbes since they have already ran like 3 articles shitting on star citizen

 

[Perkel]

nigger do you live in the same planet as the rest of us? the press always makes up shit and they never face consequences.
the only that's going to happen is the escapist is going to make some half assed apology, roberts is going to keep crying like a bitch acting as if everyone is a smart's sockpuppet going
after him and next month we will have another fuck up and drama, probably related to forbes since they have already ran like 3 articles shitting on star citizen

There is difference between direct slander with criminal possibilities and talking shit. This is also why they didn't mind earlier articles or they don't sue Smart for his continuous attacks.

If you actually read newspapers you will see that they don't say "xyz killed zyx" but they report investigation or court case.
They don't write "company XYZ emblazed money" unless there is actual investigation or there was actually newspaper in which journalist provided proof or proper sources and that story then is sourced to other newspapers.
They can write " person XYZ met with DFC in DSDF which could be connected to embezzlement as DSF is known scam artist"
But they can't write " Person XUD emblazoned money because he met with DFC" which is open for sue case.
Even garbage tabloids never state anything unless it is confirmed by official from gov (like court case). It is always "maybe"

So yes nigga i live on the same planet but i don't know if you are living in fantasy land where any newspaper can say anything they want and don't get sued.
Some idiots here actually think newspaper can run any story like "Bill Gates raped Rihanna" and not get sued.

 

[Chamezero]

This is also why they didn't mind earlier articles or they don't sue Smart for his continuous attacks.

did you even pay attention to this shit at all? Smart must have a treasure chest filled with neckbeard gloryhole lawyer "we gonna sue you" letters, which is why it's difficult to take them seriously.
The only reason Roberts is doing this is because he seriously believes Smart is behind it all manipulating ex-employees against the poor 90 million dollar man.

But they can't write " Person XUD emblazoned money because he met with DFC" which is open for sue case.

And The Escapist wrote this... where? The Escapist article is "dude says this and this, and this other dude says this and this" and that, while fucking retarded, it's not "Roberts is a rapist, we said so".
The only way they would be in trouble is if Roberts manages to prove that all sources and the article writer are Smart's puppets and they did it on purpose to fuck him up. Good luck with that.

Even garbage tabloids never state anything unless it is confirmed by official from gov (like court case). It is always "maybe"

good thing this isn't the case then, did you even read the article?

The J_C brofist says everything, really

 

[Chamezero]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag42gMGK9WrwdDlkdUM2NEhudW42MkNfWDhJYmhFSVE#gid=9
SA wasted $300k on this derp

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

But it was never a problem. The issue is not that they have stretched themselves beyond their capabilities. The issue is that they don't seem to have any focus at all. Making an FPS/Spacesim hybrid with that kind of budget would have been a piece of cake for a solid, well organized development team. Deep Shadows did it and they are a fucking ghetto company.

Of course, there is one thing that needs to be pointed out there. Chris Roberts is a producer, not a game developer. What if the people he hired suck to begin with? Are there even designers capable of making a Wing Commander type of game or a solid FPS in this day and age? What they have shown of the FPS portion of the game is very reminiscent of modern shooters. That may have less to do with Chris Roberts "selling out" and more to do with modern devs not knowing any better.

My thoughts on the matter exactly. Codex is a bit too fast to jump to conclusions and never tries to look for an underlying human problem rather than easier to understand scam/over designing.

 

[Grotesque]

The only way they would be in trouble is if Roberts manages to prove that all sources and the article writer are Smart's puppets

oh God, what an moron...

 

[Drakron]

There is difference between direct slander with criminal possibilities and talking shit.

No, to begin as all this is US based then we are talking about CIVIL because oh I checked, there are no Federal criminal charges and Defy Media is N.Y. based as CIG is based in Texas, none of those states have criminal libel (and neither does California), as pointed out UK law doesnt apply (it would be a mockery if it did as both are US citizens)

This is also why they didn't mind earlier articles or they don't sue Smart for his continuous attacks.

No, there is not ... only reason is that Derek Smart is Derek Smart as The Escapist is a entirely different thing, in fact I would point out their unwillingness to address Derek Smart would be a point against since its not as nobody else was making similar accusations, smoke ... fire.

If you actually read newspapers you will see that they don't say "xyz killed zyx" but they report investigation or court case.

If you actually DID then you know that yes, they will say that because thats a FACT, its a question of circumstances as manslaughter can be entirely justified as homicide is criminal.

I also recall when Jackson died the media was pretty fast as pointing the finger to his doctor, Conrad Murray and should I even mention OJ? Should I?

Some idiots here actually think newspaper can run any story like "Bill Gates raped Rihanna" and not get sued.

As I pointed out, you have to show malice ... not even good faith but malice, this means a reporter can write about what someone he believes to be credible (not actually be credible) told him, at no point is the journalist writing something he personally saw and there are things you cannot prove without breaking the law to begin (like access to CIG financial records since its privately owned and thus not public) but if they believe that source is credible, thats enough.

According to your idiotic notions, Watergate would never been reported since were is the evidence (destroyed)? This is putting a incredible stress on anonymous sources and whistleblowers to the point they would cease to exist, reporters only need to believe the information and the source is credible to write it and the Editor to approve.

This aint a joke and I am going to point this out, only thing for Chris to get this away was simply prove all those allegations are false ... easy right? so let me ask them ... why he isnt doing that? Why such a aggressive tone? This isnt the first time we read about problematic work conditions, I remember the "EA Spouse" so why did EA, the hideous monster, didnt sue every single outlet that run that libelous post and force it to be taken down?

Oh right ...

The United States of America's Freedom of Speech and Press.

 

[J_C]

did you even pay attention to this shit at all? Smart must have a treasure chest filled with neckbeard gloryhole lawyer "we gonna sue you" letters, which is why it's difficult to take them seriously.
The only reason Roberts is doing this is because he seriously believes Smart is behind it all manipulating ex-employees against the poor 90 million dollar man.



And The Escapist wrote this... where? The Escapist article is "dude says this and this, and this other dude says this and this" and that, while fucking retarded, it's not "Roberts is a rapist, we said so".
The only way they would be in trouble is if Roberts manages to prove that all sources and the article writer are Smart's puppets and they did it on purpose to fuck him up. Good luck with that.

good thing this isn't the case then, did you even read the article?

The J_C brofist says everything, really

If everything I brofist is stupid, than I gladly brofisted your post, to show that you are an idiot.

 

[Night Goat]

Freedom of speech is fucking sacred, and Roberts is really crossing the line by trying to shut it down. The continued cocksucking of J_C and Perkel is absolutely disgusting, I guess someone is above law and morality if he's making a toy they want.

 

[Volrath]

J_C has fucking lost it. Part of me wonders if he isn't just trolling.

 

[Metro]

Perkel's broken English makes it borderline impossible for me to interpret what he's trying to say but from what I can glean it still makes no sense.

 

[Crispy]

This entire ordeal is utterly fascinating due to the potential of either "side" being true:

- If Star Citizen somehow manages to materialize in even a portion of the ambition it aims for, it could pave the way for what I might be tempted to call a super-sim -- just watching the multi-crew demo vid is almost enough to make one believe. You would be able to hear Chris' triumphant laughter from anywhere in the world.

- On the other hand, the enormity of the problems at hand getting that to happen is undeniable. Roberts may be ambitious, but history is littered with the broken remains of those who reached too high. His ceiling is oh-so-lofty, but his potential for disaster is like a yawning black pit to ruin. His detractors would fill the internet to capacity with trolololing for years.

I wonder how in the hell the guy can get to sleep at night. Propofol?

 

[Metro]

He sleeps quite easily considering he's playing with other people's money. I'm sure his company is set up such that it shields him from any personal liability.

 

[Renegen]

Honestly this is exactly how I felt about Star Citizen 6 months ago when I checked the latest news, the game was never going to be finished as long as money was coming in and it had turned into a get rich quick scam for the developers. They had way too many artists making useless ships (ships sell to backers = mo' money) and not enough game designers, level designers, and producers actually advancing the game to an alpha and beta state (you don't need 50 ships, you need a game design mechanic that can support 50 ship designs). The developers probably all had huge salaries and would just sell ships to new backers and it would never end, it wasn't about delivering a game anymore but just the money. Sad this is what all that ambition has turned into, I blame the highest leadership for these lowly morals and corrupt behavior.

 

[Ulminati]

This entire ordeal is utterly fascinating due to the potential of either "side" being true:

- If Star Citizen somehow manages to materialize in even a portion of the ambition it aims for, it could pave the way for what I might be tempted to call a super-sim -- just watching the multi-crew demo vid is almost enough to make one believe. You would be able to hear Chris' triumphant laughter from anywhere in the world.

- On the other hand, the enormity of the problems at hand getting that to happen is undeniable. Roberts may be ambitious, but history is littered with the broken remains of those who reached too high. His ceiling is oh-so-lofty, but his potential for disaster is like a yawning black pit to ruin. His detractors would fill the internet to capacity with trolololing for years.

I wonder how in the hell the guy can get to sleep at night. Propofol?

The funny thing is that Elite Dangerous will have beaten him to the punch even if he manages to release anything. They're adding multi-crew ships and create-a-captain after planetary landings. They already have the flying, the trading, the shooting and the multiplayer. The only thing they're missing for the full Scam Citizen feature list is a first person shooter. The differnce is that instead of doing it all at once in one ginormous clusterfuck, they've rolled the systems out one at a time.

I mean, it's still not very good - mainly because there is nothing to strive for and mission vareity is meh. But they're still making all the things Scam Citizen promises for a fraction of the funds.

 

[Metro]

All this hack had to do was remake Wing Commander in 2013-15 graphics/tech. How hard was that? Scam Citizen, indeed.

 

[Zarniwoop]

All this hack had to do was remake Wing Commander in 2013-15 graphics/tech. How hard was that? Scam Citizen, indeed.

They would need another $2 billion for that.

 

[buzz]

The differnce is that instead of doing it all at once in one ginormous clusterfuck, they've rolled the systems out one at a time.

Isn't that what SC does too, with the modules and shit?

If anything, it's the weird order of modules to develop that fucked them up. Whose bright idea was to do the shooter and social modules first and then the actual space sim parts like the SP campaign or the persistent universe? It should've been the other way around.

But of course, that probably required for them to lock the design on ships and shit, so that meant putting a stop to the cow milking.