Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (new From Software game)

[Great Deceiver]

Another one of those "oh sold ONLY 2 million units, not good enough for Bobby Kotick" casualties

 

[Wunderbar]

I got an impression that Sekiro was a prestige title. Basically, Activision saying "see, we're not just a call of duty publisher, we fund niche games too!".

The DLC was scrapped in favor of Elden Ring, most likely. The game was too big, and they had troubles managing the development because of covid.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I'm starting to try this again and I dislike it a lot less than I did the first time around. I think there are a few things that make all the difference:

1) NJClaw had made a comment earlier about how positioning doesn't really matter in the way it does in Souls games. Since my Souls playstyle leans pretty heavily into positioning and spacing, this helped things click for me. (Ironically, it also makes it feel even more like DDR, but whatever.)
2) I think the higher frame rate and resolution on the PC is helping since I can see things coming a bit more clearly than I could on the PS4.
3) I basically knew what to expect since I played it before, so it wasn't the same adjustment it was the first time I tried it.
4) The first time I played, between play sessions, I had gotten it in my head that there was a different kanji for sweeps and thrusts and it was pissing me off that they all looked the same to me. Now that I understand it's just a general warning that you have to check their animations to judge, I'm not sitting there going which one is that!?

It still hasn't sunk its teeth into me the way it has for some of you (but it might), but I at least have gotten past several of the things that were pissing me off the first time around.

 

[NJClaw]

1) NJClaw had made a comment earlier about how positioning doesn't really matter in the way it does in Souls games. Since my Souls playstyle leans pretty heavily into positioning and spacing, this helped things click for me. (Ironically, it also makes it feel even more like DDR, but whatever.)

A playstyle reliant on positioning is still viable against monster-type enemies (basically anything that doesn't wield a weapon). Even better, against those enemies, positioning is even MORE important, because dodges have very few invincibility frames.

 

[Multidirectional]

4) The first time I played, between play sessions, I had gotten it in my head that there was a different kanji for sweeps and thrusts and it was pissing me off that they all looked the same to me. Now that I understand it's just a general warning that you have to check their animations to judge, I'm not sitting there going which one is that!?

So you were pissed off it wasn't an actual QTE? Weren't you one of the people shitting on Sekiro for "QTE gameplay"? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

 

[mediocrepoet]

4) The first time I played, between play sessions, I had gotten it in my head that there was a different kanji for sweeps and thrusts and it was pissing me off that they all looked the same to me. Now that I understand it's just a general warning that you have to check their animations to judge, I'm not sitting there going which one is that!?

So you were pissed off it wasn't an actual QTE? Weren't you one of the people shitting on Sekiro for "QTE gameplay"? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

Who knows? I post a lot of stuff. Sometimes it's even serious.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Actually, to address your actual point Multidirectional:

It probably is something I posted as well as other posters. Either way, the irritation wasn't with whether or not it was an actual QTE prompt, it was thinking it was an actual specific prompt that I couldn't decipher rather than a generic prompt of blah attack. Tbh, at least at the points of the game I've experienced, I think it would be better without it and just things like the blade glints, etc. Perhaps later when enemies are faster and more aggressive it's more of a necessity to help keep the game intelligible, but I have no idea at this point.

Since I'm not sure I explained it well, it's basically irritation thinking it was basically a QTE as you point out but with unintelligible directions (i.e. you need to push this specific button on your controller, but the indicator of what it is cannot be identified) as opposed to a general prompt that provides the information in a different way. I should also point out that I don't often play my consoles regularly, so I may have a lot of downtime on a game if it doesn't suck me in, at which point I have to basically relearn it if I'm not already solid on the mechanics - which is part of what happened with Sekiro.

 

[Andnjord]

Another argument in favour of the Kanji not being a QTE prompt, is that you don't actually have to respond to it solely in the one specific way you're supposed to. For the thrust attacks, you could Mist Raven yourself behind the enemy, deflect (although the timing is very tight as you can't whiff your timing and get away with a block), sidestep (again, with tight timing) and counterattack or interrupt some opponents with a sword strike or your firecrackers. The reason being that the mikiri counter only does posture damage but some bosses have such high posture recovery at full health that it might be worth it to focus on vitality damage early in the fight to degrade their posture recovery if you're not too comfortable in staying up close and pressuring them constantly or against some bosses like Owl who really like to create distance all the time.

Point being, it's not actually a case of 'Press this One Button or die'.

 

[Shackleton]

Did they make this easier with the GOTY edition? My old man reflexes couldn't get past Genichiro when I played on release and in frustration I abandoned it after a couple of days of trying and accepted it wasn't for me. Fast forward to after Elden Ring and seeking another From fix, I thought I'd try again with the GOTY edition. This time I'm finding it much easier. Beat Genichiro in just an hour or so of trying and so far it's all seemed less like I need to stop thinking about lightning fast reflexes and more about stopping myself panic mashing buttons.

Have I in fact, got gud? Or did they nerf things slightly? Whichever, I'm loving it now and see why a lot of you say it's From's best game. That swordplay, :chef's kiss:

 

[Andnjord]

more about stopping myself panic mashing buttons.

I think the reality is that there's very few attacks in the entire game that actually demand superhuman reflexes, but what causes most normal humans to face difficulties is precisely that button mashing. I don't think your reflexes have gotten measurably better compared to before, but rather that your brain has to spend less time analyzing and finding the correct response to what's happening on screen.

Also, I think most people get better at the game through unconsciously absorbing the timing of various threats, to the point that you unconsciously know that that sword is coming down 0.5 seconds after beeing lifted up and thus know when to press L1 to parry it rather than actually reacting to when you see the sword actually coming down. Which is why new enemies with differently timed attacks can often throw us for a loop, we never really developped better reflexes, we just learned to fight other enemies through rote memorisation.

TLDR: You got gud, but not because of reflexes.

 

[Brickfrog]

more about stopping myself panic mashing buttons.

I think the reality is that there's very few attacks in the entire game that actually demand superhuman reflexes, but what causes most normal humans to face difficulties is precisely that button mashing. I don't think your reflexes have gotten measurably better compared to before, but rather that your brain has to spend less time analyzing and finding the correct response to what's happening on screen.

Also, I think most people get better at the game through unconsciously absorbing the timing of various threats, to the point that you unconsciously know that that sword is coming down 0.5 seconds after beeing lifted up and thus know when to press L1 to parry it rather than actually reacting to when you see the sword actually coming down. Which is why new enemies with differently timed attacks can often throw us for a loop, we never really developped better reflexes, we just learned to fight other enemies through rote memorisation.

TLDR: You got gud, but not because of reflexes.

It's definitely the pattern recognition and repetition that makes you strong and not the reflexes. I agree.

 

[Dhaze]

Actually, to address your actual point Multidirectional:

It probably is something I posted as well as other posters. Either way, the irritation wasn't with whether or not it was an actual QTE prompt, it was thinking it was an actual specific prompt that I couldn't decipher rather than a generic prompt of blah attack. Tbh, at least at the points of the game I've experienced, I think it would be better without it and just things like the blade glints, etc. Perhaps later when enemies are faster and more aggressive it's more of a necessity to help keep the game intelligible, but I have no idea at this point.

During my umpteenth playthrough, I used a mod that allowed for the complete removal of any kanji from perilous attacks: Subtle Visual Effects And Kanji on NexusMods.

And it made for much better, clearer fights. Especially against foes who can use more than one type of perilous attack, and whose animations were often partially obscured by said kanji (think human-sized enemy combined with awkward camera positioning), making it somewhat difficult to see exactly what they were doing.

As far as I'm concerned there's precious little wrong with the combat in Sekiro, but the fact perilous attacks are systematically announced by a kanji has always felt off, somehow.

 

[Nirvash]

So... i'm at the big farting monkey and the ghosts at cursed village, getting my ass kicked.
Most tool upgrades are not avaliable, i guess i look at a guide...

I MISSED 4, FOUR, IV FAKEARM TOOLS, wtf.

Now gotta farm shinsengumi for confetti.

 

[Machocruz]

Finally got around to this, got it on sale on the PS store. Haven't played a game this simultaneously aggravating and addicting since the original NA release of DMC3. Haven't yelled Bullshit! and Fuck Ooooff! at the screen this much since the arcade days. And while there is some questionable design here, I know that failure is 98% my fault, my brain having trouble wrapping itself around mechanics and enemy behavior.

The game seems designed to punish any habits you may form. Trying to be aggressive and beat the enemy down? Take this hyper-armor, bitch. Think you're just gonna stand there and deflect everything? Here's an instant Perilous you don't have time to react to because you're too close (and sometimes because you can't see because of the camera). Wanna play pussy and dodge? Enjoy more tracking than a VHS tape.

I still don't really grasp the step dodge, I get hit the vast majority of times I try to evade an attack. Am I supposed to dodge to the side, back, towards? I know it's not as powerful as the BB dodge, but it seems to be nearly useless for anything that isn't a heavy vertical attack/have insane tracking. But at the end of the day, I know it's me and that other people are out there dodging every attack that can be dodged.

My last reeming came from Lone Shadow Longsword. Probably took me at least 15 attempts, most ending with me getting raped in a corner or against the wall, the last thing I saw being a red kanji filling up most of the screen. The nigga just keeps going! Couldn't even get enough space to heal half the time. The encounter really shows you how tight your deflecting skills are, because his kicks and combos will push your posture to breaking if you are imprecise, which apparently I was. And I'm still crap at distinguishing between multiple perilous attacks up close, I often get caught using the wrong counter measure, or I panic and hit the wrong button.

But when you finally beat someone, they then seem very obvious and easy.

FromSoft/Muh'zaki level design continues to impress. I was expecting a more linear game, and maybe it is in terms of story route, but there are plenty of paths within areas. In fact I'm often overwhelmed with the amount of directions I can go at some points.

Art direction is majestic. This is one of the most sumptuous depictions of Japanese feudal era and folklore/fantasy of all time. FS are master character and environmental artists at this point, and Sekiro may be their high watermark. It's the epitome of what's beautiful and cool with the theme and setting, just like they did with Bloodborne. Their color choices are amazing, like master painter level.

I've seen a lot of people on the internet criticizing this game for not having "builds", or good character progression, etc.....

IT ISN'T THAT KIND OF FUCKING GAME, retards. What don't you fucking understand?! And that kind of game was never promised. They didn't say this was going to be Koga Souls. This is their character action game, so to speak. You can criticize it by that standard for it's lack of weapon selection, but since I remember a time when action games only gave you one kind of main weapon, it doesn't bother me one bit. All games don't have to follow the same designs standards, philosophies, or specs. What a boring world that would be. I think calling all these games "Souls" or "Souls-like" does them a disservice in that way, just because Miyazaki likes to repeat certain elements in his games, which a lot of developers do hello.

 

[Silverfish]

You can criticize it by that standard for it's lack of weapon selection, but since I remember a time when action games only gave you one kind of main weapon, it doesn't bother me one bit.

As someone who spammed shurikens and the axe to an absurd degree, I wouldn't even agree with people who say Sekiro doesn't have variety in its weapons.

 

[Multidirectional]

But at the end of the day, I know it's me and that other people are out there dodging every attack that can be dodged.

I settle for dodging every attack that cannot be blocked/deflected or jumped over. You are right about the game punishing habits. Especially Souls habits. First playthrough was a nightmare for me because I wouldn't let go of dodging habits until really late in the game, I vomited butthurt rage all over this thread back then.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

I still don't really grasp the step dodge

It's not very usefull.

 

[Machocruz]

I watched Distortion2, who is really good at bosses in FS games. He makes dodging look effortless, like flowing water. So clean

 

[Deflowerer]

Focus on parrying and jumping instead.

 

[SumDrunkGuy]

Why is this even in the jRPG subforum? Bloodborne and Dark Souls make sense but this is literally straight action.

 

[Ivan]

Why is this even in the jRPG subforum? Bloodborne and Dark Souls make sense but this is literally straight action.

out of respect for the lineage

 

[Tse Tse Fly]

Hello,
Currently studying the blade in this game. Quite enjoying the combat so far, despite it being somewhat less versatile compared to the Souls games. I just really like to watch how enemy's posture gauge slowly fills up in response to my successful deflecting. The stealth mechanics on the other hand do seem undercooked to me, one of my issues with stealth here is that it's too easy to recover if you fuck up, you can cheese your way out of almost any tricky situation by just running away and waiting out half a minute, and the enemies will soon forget about you, even though you might have left a bunch of dead bodies lying around. Still, it is fun time and time again to arrive to a new location and explore it to find the most efficient way to dispatch the enemies standing in the way between you and the boss, and oftentimes there are more than 1 way to get to him. The world structure at first glance seems more linear than in DkS1 for instance, but it is not like there isn't anything to discover, though the semi-hidden loot I've found so far is almost exclusively just consumables, which I generally tend to save up for last in such games (only to never actually use them in the end...). The prosthetics seem interesting but as far as I can see they are not much helpful outside of boss battles. Despite these apparent shortcomings, it's a very enjoyable game, much more so than Elden Ring for instance.

The fight with the Guardian Ape

Spoiler

I knew something was off when his body didn't disappear and I didn't receive the reward for boss fight, but I certainly didn't expect the fucker to rise from the dead, take that very blade you had beheaded him with and start dancing around holding the blade in one hand and his severed head in the other. Good job.

 

[Matador]

Good review. I enjoy Sekiro much more than the ER. For sure.

 

[Ivan]

Guardian Ape is my favorite FromSoftware moment ever.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

mediocrepoet NJClaw Zed Duke of Banville get your granny panties on, boys, Porky is BACK!

Porkmeister pwning one of the hardest bosses in Sekiro, Genichiro, Way of Twatmoe: