Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[Jo498]

Yes, the PC versions that are the most common nowadays with DOS box and don't need working old Amigas or C64s are usually worst as far as the interface goes.
But the masses of weak opponents are mostly a feature of PoR and to some extent Champions. Although huge numbers of opponents and some tedious battles are a feature of these games. For starters, Champions is probably the best games. I can hardly imagine having fun starting a high lvl when unfamiliar with these games. I was quite frustrated when I played PoD in 92 or so although I had played PoR, CoK and DKoK before.

I think "sweep" is restricted to the weakest opponents. There should have been some scaling, say with a 7th lvl fighter type becoming able to sweep slightly stronger characters and again at 11th or 15th lvl for the high lvl games.

 

[octavius]

Yes, the PC versions that are the most common nowadays with DOS box and don't need working old Amigas or C64s are usually worst as far as the interface goes.

Amiga versions often had better UI. In Curse of the Azure Bonds you could stack scrolls, in PoR or Curse you could load from camp unlike the DOS version, and you got custom avatars in the Krynn games.

 

[rezaf]

The great thing about all the weak opponents is how it really really really makes you cherish the moment when your mage(s) finally learn the Fireball spell.
But until then, Sleep is a loyal companion.

Also, who cares about optimal play? These early games tend to give you enough leeway when you're dealing with chaff enemies.

 

[Jo498]

PoR is mostly forgiving in the early game and even has the scaling of mass battles according to party strength. It is somewhat tedious because one has true lvl 1 characters at the beginning and very little magic. One need to get all the best loot from the first two slum sections to get decent stuff and lots of travelling between slums and civilized section. One can try the famous "Troll fight" too early but there is no need for this, one can wait until later. The gang in the well is not that hard and doable at lvl 2, certainly at lvl 3. Sokal keep has one huge and tough fight but one could hire assistance here. And one can leave Sokal keep without problems, I think, if one is too weak. The main point where one can get stuck badly early is the library. One should always keep alternate saves. Later on one can go to the Graveyard too early but will recognize this usually quickly. And one can have bad luck with some tough wilderness encounters.
Overall, the mix between openness and guidance is pretty good, better than in many other games. There are a few faults, e.g. the overland missions first given are harder than some of the later ones. And the endgame is somewhat anticlimactic.

 

[ProphetSword]

Yes, the PC versions that are the most common nowadays with DOS box and don't need working old Amigas or C64s are usually worst as far as the interface goes.

You say C64s and Amigas are old, like DOS machines aren’t equally as old. There are emulators for C64 if you don’t have a real one...you know, like how DOSBox is an emulator?

The C64 has the same interface as the DOS version, except it’s easier to navigate with a joystick and the sound is far, far, far, far better.

I think "sweep" is restricted to the weakest opponents. There should have been some scaling, say with a 7th lvl fighter type becoming able to sweep slightly stronger characters and again at 11th or 15th lvl for the high lvl games.

As has been mentioned before in this thread, the Gold Box games are a recreation of AD&D and adhere to those rules. In fact, part of what I love about these games is that they are such faithful recreations, given the limitations of the time in which they were made.

 

[Null Null]

'Sweep' is restricted to zero-level opponents (kobolds, goblins, giant rats, and giant centipedes). You can sweep one enemy per fighter level.

The way to avoid huge mobs at the beginning of Pool of Radiance is suboptimal characters (don't mod them all to 18); also try to avoid having too many mages, or armor classes below zero. Pool of Radiance is also forgiving to smaller parties. If you don't want to transfer them to Curse or later, multiclassing is useful. You can get away with five without too much trouble. The old cluebook suggests having four characters who can fight well, two mages, two clerics, and one thief, so if you go fighter/mage, fighter/mage, fighter/cleric, fighter/thief you can get down to four. Smaller than that is only recommended for obsessives.

Reuse of assets: This was pretty amusing, with many of the pics in the PC icons in FRUA and DQK recognizable as generic enemies from Curse (the flail-wielding High Priest from Curse returns as the neutral male cleric). I made a list when researching a FRUA game if anyone is curious.

 

[ProphetSword]

I’d be curious to see that list.

 

[Null Null]

I’d be curious to see that list.

The Royal Guard from Curse is recolored as the Dark Elf Fighter, gets an upgrade to be most of the BC Fighters (Trooper, Veteran, Lord) in Secret, gets decked out in VGA as the Zhentil Warrior, and winds up demoted to lesser-sidekick as the Road Guard in FRUA.

The Dark Elf Lord from Curse changes complexion to become the Elvish Killer of Champions.

The all-purpose Fighter, Zhentil Fighter, and Zhentrim Fighter becomes Skyla in Champions and the Dread Guard from Secret.

The Red Plume from Curse becomes a Dark Lord in FRUA. The Dragon Master from Champions seems inspired by him.

The generic Curse mage in purple and blue (used with slight variants for the Zhentil Mage and Zhentrim Mage) gets reused in Champions (as the Zhentrim Mage variant), recolored in Death (black and blue for the black robe mages, yellow and blue for the Rogue Mage High) and finally in red as the Male Neutral Human Mage PC icon in FRUA.
(The Zhentil Mage is recolored to have black hair, whereas the Zhentrim Mage's body gets turned from blue to black with blue highlights but retains the white hair. This reflects the Zhentrim Mage's higher level and presumably greater age vis-a-vis the Zhentil Mage. The sort of nice minor touch that fell off as the series went on.)

Secret's goat-wearing Black Circle Mage becomes a Banite Cleric in Pools, and stays clerical as a Thenol Priest in Dark Queen and a Dark Disciple in FRUA.

The Vaasan Mage from Pools gets a two-pixel bust and a color change to red to become the Neutral Human Female Mage PC in FRUA.

Marcus from Pools of Darkness fills out a little to become the Evil Human Male Mage PC (and his recolored bald red counterpart, who isn't a default) in FRUA.

The Red Mage from Pools gets ported directly as FRUA's Master Wizard.
The Black Mage from Pools gets ported as FRUA's Necromancer.
The Blackrobed Spy from Treasures becomes FRUA's Magician.
The Thenol Wizard from Queen gains a beard to be FRUA's Wizard.
The Dark Wizard from Queen loses his frizzy hair and most of his levels to be FRUA's Theurgist.
Lord Manshoon from Pools (who you can't actually fight) becomes the High Priest from FRUA (if you wondered why they made a new icon), losing his magic ball.

The Evil Knight from Pools takes off the mask and becomes FRUA's High Thief.
The Dark Warrior from Pools gets ported directly in more or less a similar role as FRUA's Dark Knight.

The Vaasan Warrior from Pools gets a cape and plume change from yellow to red in Queen to be a Thenol Overlord. He then goes into FRUA in his original yellow as a Master Thief, and gets a shield with his red incarnation as the Dark Overlord.

The Zhentil Captain from Treasures gets a promotion to Dark Warlord for FRUA.
The Lordsman from Treasures gets ported directly as the Evil Champion for FRUA.

The Zhentrim Cleric from Curse becomes the generic fighter in Champions, is recolored a bit to be the generic fighter in Death, and is turned whitish-blue but still recognizable as the Human Male Good PC Cleric in FRUA.

The Zhentil Cleric from Curse fairly naturally becomes the Banite in Secret, but that's as far as he goes.
The Cultist and Priest of Bane from Curse (in green and black respectively) are recognizable as the Banite Cleric in Gateway and become the Human Female Good and Neutral Clerics (recolored to whitish-blue and purple-blue) in FRUA.

Curse's High Priest is demoted to a standard cleric in Champions but is quite recognizable with his flattop haircut as the standard Human Male Neutral Cleric in FRUA (which made me take a doubletake).

The Moander Cultist from Pools, on the other hand, takes a serious demotion and class change as the Warrior in FRUA. He doesn't have stink lines anymore, though.

Strangbourn from Champions becomes the Solamnic Knight in Death.

Curse's Looter is recognizable as Secret's Townsman.
Curse's Thief pretty naturally becomes the standard thief in Secret.
Muthtur from Gateway becomes the Master Thief from Pools.
Pools' Rogue becomes a Black Rogue in Queen, and the Thief and (recolored) Goon in FRUA.
Traned from Pools becomes a recognizable extra icon in Queen.

Pools' Brimwulf gets a recolor to join the living, and a shield, and becomes a Human Male Fighter in Queen and FRUA.
Vala from Secret and Pools is the basis for the Human Female Fighter from FRUA.
Shal from Pools becomes, oddly, the dwarf female fighter from Queen.
The Myth Knight from Pools becomes the basis for the human female fighter from Queen and the human female paladin from FRUA.
Skomp from Death is pretty clearly the base for Storm in Pools and FRUA, who looks an awful lot like the Dwarf Male Fighter from Queen and FRUA.

Nacacia from Pools is the base for the Human Male Ranger from Queen and FRUA.
Raizel from POD is the base for the Elf Female Fighter from Queen and FRUA.

/autism

 

[smaug]

Joonas GBC can’t detect my GB games in my games folder :C) drive, does it need to be in program files?

 

[Joonas]

Joonas GBC can’t detect my GB games in my games folder :C) drive, does it need to be in program files?

If you mean the "Setup GOG" button, select the main folder where your GB games are installed (e.g. "C:\Games\"). It expects that the games are installed to folders that GOG creates by default.

Otherwise you need to point the games to their folders, one by one. The game folders can be on any drive / folder, no need to be on C: or in "Program Files".

It should find non-GOG versions as long as the games are under these folders (note the POOLRAD under Pool of Radiance):

Pool of Radiance\POOLRAD
Curse of the Azure Bonds
Secret of the Silver Blades
Pools of Darkness
Champions of Krynn
Death Knights of Krynn
The Dark Queen of Krynn
Gateway to the Savage Frontier
Treasures of the Savage Frontier
Unlimited Adventures

 

[smaug]

Never mind, I restarted and saves were detected, thanks Joonas

 

[Bara]

So I'm playing through the forgotten realms series so far and am currently at Treasures of the Savage frontier.

Siulajia goes on about how she loves one of the party members but knows that he dose not love her and leaves the party? I'm confused as to whats causing that.

 

[Cael]

So I'm playing through the forgotten realms series so far and am currently at Treasures of the Savage frontier.

Siulajia goes on about how she loves one of the party members but knows that he dose not love her and leaves the party? I'm confused as to whats causing that.

It is a random chance. Nothing (much) you can do about it, IIRC.

 

[ProphetSword]

From the website Giant Bomb:

Depending on several factors, an NPC may fall in love with a party member (normally the 'lead' character in the party). If the character is male, the NPC Siulajia may fall in love with him. If female, Jarbarkas may fall for them. While this may not has as much on an impact on the main story, it does have lasting effects on how well a particular character performs in battle.

Certain actions in combat also determine the suitability of the character. By not participating as often in battle, they may not earn the respect of the NPC. By performing evil deeds such as cruelty to those they meet, this may destroy any chance of romance.

This directly affects a character's ability to fight if they become involved with an NPC. Characters that are in love fight much stronger and more effectively when their paramour is in the same party. However, if the NPC is dropped from the party, that character's abilities also suffer to reflect their feeling of loss. This persists throughout the entire game.

When romance is declared, the party must give their blessing to the couple to continue their journey together. If not, the NPC will leave and the abandoned character will suffer as a result for the rest of the game.

Conversely, if the NPC is knocked out or killed in combat, the character that is in love with them with go into an uncontrollable, berserk rage for the rest of the fight.
https://www.giantbomb.com/shows/631-doom-nuts-and-bolts/2970-20138

 

[Cael]

From the website Giant Bomb:

Depending on several factors, an NPC may fall in love with a party member (normally the 'lead' character in the party). If the character is male, the NPC Siulajia may fall in love with him. If female, Jarbarkas may fall for them. While this may not has as much on an impact on the main story, it does have lasting effects on how well a particular character performs in battle.

Certain actions in combat also determine the suitability of the character. By not participating as often in battle, they may not earn the respect of the NPC. By performing evil deeds such as cruelty to those they meet, this may destroy any chance of romance.

This directly affects a character's ability to fight if they become involved with an NPC. Characters that are in love fight much stronger and more effectively when their paramour is in the same party. However, if the NPC is dropped from the party, that character's abilities also suffer to reflect their feeling of loss. This persists throughout the entire game.

When romance is declared, the party must give their blessing to the couple to continue their journey together. If not, the NPC will leave and the abandoned character will suffer as a result for the rest of the game.

Conversely, if the NPC is knocked out or killed in combat, the character that is in love with them with go into an uncontrollable, berserk rage for the rest of the fight.

I am not sure if that would result in what he described, in that Siulajia is in love with the PC but he doesn't respond to her, but I haven't played the game in years.

 

[Grauken]

From the website Giant Bomb:

Depending on several factors, an NPC may fall in love with a party member (normally the 'lead' character in the party). If the character is male, the NPC Siulajia may fall in love with him. If female, Jarbarkas may fall for them. While this may not has as much on an impact on the main story, it does have lasting effects on how well a particular character performs in battle.

Certain actions in combat also determine the suitability of the character. By not participating as often in battle, they may not earn the respect of the NPC. By performing evil deeds such as cruelty to those they meet, this may destroy any chance of romance.

This directly affects a character's ability to fight if they become involved with an NPC. Characters that are in love fight much stronger and more effectively when their paramour is in the same party. However, if the NPC is dropped from the party, that character's abilities also suffer to reflect their feeling of loss. This persists throughout the entire game.

When romance is declared, the party must give their blessing to the couple to continue their journey together. If not, the NPC will leave and the abandoned character will suffer as a result for the rest of the game.

Conversely, if the NPC is knocked out or killed in combat, the character that is in love with them with go into an uncontrollable, berserk rage for the rest of the fight.

I am not sure if that would result in what he described, in that Siulajia is in love with the PC but he doesn't respond to her, but I haven't played the game in years.

I played it in 2018 and following the above advice I got the romance, though it might be that if you don't follow the advice the NPC might still fall in love but the flag for getting the option to proceed with it doesn't deploy, or it might be random chance as you said whether the NPC likes/dislikes you in this case

 

[octavius]

Discussing romances in the Gold Box thread.

 

[Bara]

Tried reloading an earlier save file and forced random encounters and camp events to see if its random chance and dosen't apapre to be so. Same dialogue events of "Siulajia starts to talk with X as you make camp. When X turns away after a few moments Siulajia sighs and sits alone." and "Silajia sids and stares at X, who looks very uncomfortable." Till it eventually leads to the woe is me you won't love me back stuff.

Ah well just wanted to see all the dialogue in the game for my first time through. Shame I can't kill her and loot back the few pieces of equipment I gave her.

 

[Cael]

Tried reloading an earlier save file and forced random encounters and camp events to see if its random chance and dosen't apapre to be so. Same dialogue events of "Siulajia starts to talk with X as you make camp. When X turns away after a few moments Siulajia sighs and sits alone." and "Silajia sids and stares at X, who looks very uncomfortable." Till it eventually leads to the woe is me you won't love me back stuff.

Ah well just wanted to see all the dialogue in the game for my first time through. Shame I can't kill her and loot back the few pieces of equipment I gave her.

If you have a Paladin in the party, you get to control NPCs in combat, IIRC.

Reload the last save, get into a random encounter, send her forward and abuse attacks of opportunity until she is dead. Loot her afterwards.

 

[Null Null]

NPC killing? Just cast Hold Person (or Monster) on them at the start so an enemy's attack takes them down. I used it to loot Vala's Ring of Blinking back in Pools of Darkness a while ago.

As for luv: I loaded a Pools of Darkness party (remove characters and copy into Treasures directory) and ran off on my own on various random encounters (I was curious to see what the game would throw at the party in the deep forests). Siulajia soon got a hissy fit and left.

Also, on GOG forums, it's been reported effect $83 gets added to both Siulajia and her potential paramour.

Note that since having Siulajia die makes the character go nuts in combat and out of your control (requiring you to invest effort in protecting Siulajia), and the character is apparently dejected if she dumps him, you could argue tactically it's wisest to keep her from falling in love with you in the first place.

 

[Cael]

NPC killing? Just cast Hold Person (or Monster) on them at the start so an enemy's attack takes them down. I used it to loot Vala's Ring of Blinking back in Pools of Darkness a while ago.

As for luv: I loaded a Pools of Darkness party (remove characters and copy into Treasures directory) and ran off on my own on various random encounters (I was curious to see what the game would throw at the party in the deep forests). Siulajia soon got a hissy fit and left.

Also, on GOG forums, it's been reported effect $83 gets added to both Siulajia and her potential paramour.

Note that since having Siulajia die makes the character go nuts in combat and out of your control (requiring you to invest effort in protecting Siulajia), and the character is apparently dejected if she dumps him, you could argue tactically it's wisest to keep her from falling in love with you in the first place.

Not to mention experience points gain is better with lesser number of characters.

 

[Bara]

Okay this is funny on a whim I thought "wait has she not been getting enough kills to earn the PC's respect?"

And apparently it seems so I tried two encounters and just had her kill everything to see and the dialogue changed to "Looks like Siulajia trying very hard to impress some one. The rest of the part smiled and nodded in agreement."

I think on principal at this point I'll stick with killing her this playthrough.

General goldbox question for you after I finish with Treasures should I hop straight into Krynn?

Or is it fine to finish the Forgotten Realms set with FRUA? Some one once told me that once you start playing the custom campaigns it's hard to go back the regular Goldbox games.

 

[octavius]

You can't. There's only PoR and Curse that has been remade, and some hard coded things could not be implemented.

 

[Null Null]

The guy who remade PoR actually commented he had started on Secret, found the mod to be a pain in the ass, and then realized that was true of the original game.

Ironically Pools of Darkness would require very few hacks as the item and effect lists are almost the same and you could destroy all-but-drow equipment with a few bytes changed.

Gateway has some battles at the end that can't really be done in FRUA. Treasures has the romance, the crystals, and the weather.

The Krynn games are basically impossible to do in FRUA--you'd have to add classes, and the separate spell tables for good and neutral clerics and mages can't be done using any of the hacks now known (though apparently they are in there as unused code). Also none of the draconian death effects are in FRUA.

(...as an aside, it's kind of funny that killing together is the only romantic activity approved of by the game. It makes sense in the context of a 1992 D&D game, but it sounds more Natural Born Killers (or Chaotic Neutral brigand band) than Lawful Good if you think about it. )

 

[Cael]

Okay this is funny on a whim I thought "wait has she not been getting enough kills to earn the PC's respect?"

And apparently it seems so I tried two encounters and just had her kill everything to see and the dialogue changed to "Looks like Siulajia trying very hard to impress some one. The rest of the part smiled and nodded in agreement."

I think on principal at this point I'll stick with killing her this playthrough.

General goldbox question for you after I finish with Treasures should I hop straight into Krynn?

Or is it fine to finish the Forgotten Realms set with FRUA? Some one once told me that once you start playing the custom campaigns it's hard to go back the regular Goldbox games.

Krynn is a different experience altogether. Less restrictions, much higher levels, more unique things to keep track of, and alignment matters for casters. It is pretty much the peak of Gold Box games.