Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[Cael]

Okay this is funny on a whim I thought "wait has she not been getting enough kills to earn the PC's respect?"

And apparently it seems so I tried two encounters and just had her kill everything to see and the dialogue changed to "Looks like Siulajia trying very hard to impress some one. The rest of the part smiled and nodded in agreement."

I think on principal at this point I'll stick with killing her this playthrough.

General goldbox question for you after I finish with Treasures should I hop straight into Krynn?

Or is it fine to finish the Forgotten Realms set with FRUA? Some one once told me that once you start playing the custom campaigns it's hard to go back the regular Goldbox games.

Krynn is a different experience altogether. Less restrictions, much higher levels, more unique things to keep track of, and alignment matters for casters. It is pretty much the peak of Gold Box games.

 

[Desiderius]

(...as an aside, it's kind of funny that killing together is the only romantic activity approved of by the game. It makes sense in the context of a 1992 D&D game, but it sounds more Natural Born Killers (or Chaotic Neutral brigand band) than Lawful Good if you think about it. )

You know the Poz is out of control when peeps forget that killing bad guys is very much in the wheelhouse of LG.

You're not getting those moneychangers out of the temple by asking nicely.

 

[ProphetSword]

Or is it fine to finish the Forgotten Realms set with FRUA? Some one once told me that once you start playing the custom campaigns it's hard to go back the regular Goldbox games.

If you're talking custom campaigns, then going to FRUA is fine. If you're talking about the remakes of Pool of Radiance and Curse of Azure Bonds, you'll be fine if that's all you want to do...but if you want to do all four games, you're better off sticking with original Gold-Box games.

Also, I don't find it true that playing FRUA makes it hard to go back to the original games. I've played a lot of FRUA (like, a whole lot), but never have a problem going back to any of the originals, even Pool of Radiance (which I prefer in its original state over any of the remakes, which to me don't fully capture the game as well in my opinion).

 

[Deadyawn]

This quarantine has left me with a pretty shitty laptop so I figured it would be a great time to try one of these. Decided to go with Krynn for no particular reason. Thought I would restle with the interface a lot more than I did. Maybe it's because I've been playing Dwarf Fortress a lot recently. Anyways, here's my party:

Human Knight
Dwarf Fighter
Dwarf Fighter/cleric
Half-elf Ranger
Kender Thief
Human Mage

Didn't mod all their stats 18.Sleeping the clerics/mages made THROTL mostly effortless, so I'm feeling pretty confident with these guys. My question is:

Does this party work for the rest of this and other Krynn? Any major change I should consider?

I'm playing in veteran btw.

 

[octavius]

That party should work, but it could be improved.
I'd lose one of the Dwarves and make an Elf Fighter/Mage instead.
The Kender will be more effective as a Fighter/Thief or Cleric/Thief, single class Thieves being the weakest of all the classes in the GB games.

 

[Dorateen]

Are they Hill Dwarves or Mountain Dwarves? You gotta keep an eye on those Hill Dwarves. If that's the case, you can stand to lose one of them.

 

[Null Null]

Agree with Octavius: you want a multiclass thief, as single-class thieves suck in GB, and a second dwarf fighter or fighter/cleric isn't that useful--you definitely want another mage.
Human Knight, Dwarf Fighter, Elf Fighter/Mage, Elf Ranger/Cleric, Kender Cleric/Thief, Human Mage sounds reasonably true to your original ideas. (In particular you seem to like having a variety of races in your party.) I might change your dwarf fighter to a human paladin so you can turn undead in Death Knights.

Krynn party design is a different story than Pools series/Savage Frontier party design. Demihumans are useful, and muticlassing is as well. Also, you want to have both good and neutral mages as they get different spells, and in some cases both good and neutral clerics as well. In addition, Death Knights of Krynn has a higher need for clerics than most games due to the large numbers of undead. The game is tricky with less than three. I also take the contrarian position that a single-class mage is of great value in Dark Queen of Krynn, as there are numerous enemies with 50-90% magic resistance (MR), some which are spellcasters. A dual-class mage will level into the twenties, a single-class mage into the thirties by the end of Dark Queen--this will make a HUGE difference when you drop those fireballs (MR is calculated at 11th level for the caster, plus or minus 5% per level of the mage.)

Warning: do not use female demihumans as any type of fighter class (fighter, ranger, paladin, knight), you will run into strength limitations.
Warning: demihuman level limits are much laxer than the other games, but they still exist and can blindside you in later games. Elves can reach max level as clerics, rangers and mages, (and thieves for the Qualinesti), dwarves as fighters, half-elves as clerics and thieves (but can't be cleric/thieves for some weird reason, nor can elves), and kender as thieves. (So a dwarf fighter/cleric isn't a great idea...have the kender or half-elf pick up the mixed class instead). Kender in particular have very low level limits as fighters (5!).

So you should be looking at human knights, paladins, clerics, or mages, elvish fighter/mages, ranger/clerics and cleric/mages (or fighter/cleric/mages but this advances slowly in later games), dwarvish fighters, and for your thief you can go kender cleric/thief. Kender are limited to 12 as clerics, but what else are you going to do with that thief slot? (And you need a thief to finish one particular part of Dark Queen.) They also get the taunt (YELL), which makes enemies target them rather than more valuable characters, and are kind of a fun extra option you don't get in the other games.

Cleric god choice is a bit less of an issue. There are good and neutral gods, clerics of Majere turn undead as two levels higher, Mishakal get bonuses to healing, and Kiri-Jolith get a small THAC0 bonus. (All of these are good gods.) Also, clerics of neutrality get higher-level spells a little earlier--this is useful in Champions (where they get Hold Person at 2nd level) and Death Knights (where they can get access to 7th level spells, unlike their good siblings). Also, a 12th level neutral cleric gets 7th level spells but a good one doesn't, so neutral cleric (I like Shinare for the Charm Person spell) is a good pick for your kender. EDIT: kenders are limited to a 16 wisdom (no 6th or 7th level spells), so you may want to use this one as Majere (turning maxes out at 14th level, but 12+2=14; I can confirm 12th level Majere clerics act as 14th level for turning) and make one of the others a neutral if you want 7th level spells in Death Knights. Neutrals still get more 5th level spells, which is somewhat useful. It's kind of a tough call.

Red and white mages offer 2 choices but relatively higher stakes--they have different spells. Generally white mages get the debuffs (Charm and Hold) and defensive buffs (Minor Globe) and red mages get the offensive buffs (Mirror Image, Haste, Fire Shield), but there is a lot of weird overlap (Reds get Invisbility, Slow and Fear) and generally you need one of each. Red Robes get Fireball at 4th rather than 5th level, so if you have a single and a double-class mage there is a case for making the single a red mage. (Whites get delayed-blast fireball at 11th instead of 12th, but as this is less of a game-changer it is less of an issue.)


I'd say you need three clerics, two mages (one red and one white), at least three (preferably four) characters with a fighter class, and one thief. That's 9 characters, so multiclass as above. Knights can't multiclass but get Solamnic Plate and there's a quest in Champions you need a knight for, so putting a Human Knight in front is reasonable.


I beat all three with:
Human Knight
Elf Ranger/Cleric (Majere)
Elf Ranger/Cleric (Mishakal)
Kender Cleric/Thief (Kiri-Jolith; I would use Shinare)
Human White Mage
Human Red Mage

This had the disadvantage of not having seventh-level spells accessible in Death Knights, but demolishing draconians with delayed-blast-fireballs made up for it.

 

[Deadyawn]

Alright, this is how things are looking:

Human Knight: he stays, very decent frontliner.
Dwarf Fighter: he stays, he means bussiness.
Dwarf Figher/cleric: she goes. She turned undead like nobody's bussiness but having her in front where her casting can be interrupted is actually pretty fucking stupid. To be replaced with an Elf Fighter/mage(white)
Half-Elf Ranger: he stays for now. Depending on how things progress may be replaced with a ranger/cleric
Kender Thief: she goes. To be replaced with a Kender Thief/cleric. I'll go Shinare since higher level spells sound great, plus special charm person.
Human Mage: he stays, he's red so that's also good.

I'll roll with this for a while and see how it goes. If things get too dicey I'll come back and tell Null Null he was right all along.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

That party is fine. I prefer going a little more arcane magic heavy, and I also don't think kender's are that great. Thieves aren't all that useful either, but a fighter/thief is more surviveable. To power-game, I would tweak you're party like this:

Human Knight
Dwarf Fighter/Thief
Human Cleric
Elven Fighter/Mage
Human Mage
Human Mage

Having three caster's that can blow crowds of enemies away with fireballs and ice storms is a lot of fun. The fighter/thief and elven fighter/mage should be able to be decent enough at ranged attacks if need be. If you need to protect your casters, you can have the fighter/mage, cleric, and fighter/thief join the knight in the front row while the mages get a handle on things.

Again, it's just a preference. Your party is pretty balanced and would be perfect for a tabletop session, but the Gold Box games never made thieves an essential character, unfortunately. And I'm a tabletop player that prefers to play thieves.

 

[Cael]

Krynn is a very arcane and elf centric game, and the racial level limits are very oriented towards elves. Dwarves and Kenders get shafted big time, unfortunately, as they get unlimited levels in classes that don't need ultra high levels (fighter and thief). You can basically complete the game with 1 Knight, 1 Qualinesti F/T/M and 4 Qualinesti F/M/C if you really want to powergame, but it really isn't required as it isn't that difficult.

What would make your life easier is to have 1 single class red mage with max Dex. You really want at least one high level mage in Queen, and red has a lower XP requirement than white. Note that you will have level limits in Champions and Death Knights that a single class red will hit fairly quickly, though. It is Queen where you will really see the difference.

Note that Knights are a basically F/C multiclass with a Fighter's HP, Fighter weapon selection, unique armour and a limited but more than enough Cleric casting (which in GB games is just dispel magic, Hold and healing/cure poison/remove disease/etc.).

If you are going F/C or F/C/M, Kiri-Jolith is a solid choice due to the -1 THACO bonus. Coupled with elf + broad/longsword, and you get a -2 THACO bonus straight off the bat, and that is massive at the beginning of the game. His bonus spells aren't that bad, either, IIRC, but it is the THACO bonus you want.

 

[Null Null]

Ah, crap: kender wisdom is limited to 16, so you might not get those higher-level spells. Well, there's always the Gold Box Companion.

It's a game. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong about a game. If your optimized party creams the monsters and you have fun, great. If you enjoy scheming hour after hour to sneak your suboptimal party over the finish line and you have fun, great.

My big issue with DeuceTraveler's party is the lack of clerics for Death Knights of Krynn. You are going to have a hard time turning all those undead, which means the wights are going to hit you and you are going to be running back to the temple for resurrection.

Triple-classing your mages will hurt you in Queen when the, ah, extra-special draconians resist your fireballs. But 4 elf C/F/Ms are a lot of fun in Champions--I successfully charged the Kernen Gate without doing any of the sidequests.

 

[Desiderius]

That party is fine. I prefer going a little more arcane magic heavy, and I also don't think kender's are that great. Thieves aren't all that useful either, but a fighter/thief is more surviveable. To power-game, I would tweak you're party like this:

Human Knight
Dwarf Fighter/Thief
Human Cleric
Elven Fighter/Mage
Human Mage
Human Mage

C'mon, man, you gotta have a Kender to man the Hoopak!

 

[Cael]

Ah, crap: kender wisdom is limited to 16, so you might not get those higher-level spells. Well, there's always the Gold Box Companion.

It's a game. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong about a game. If your optimized party creams the monsters and you have fun, great. If you enjoy scheming hour after hour to sneak your suboptimal party over the finish line and you have fun, great.

My big issue with DeuceTraveler's party is the lack of clerics for Death Knights of Krynn. You are going to have a hard time turning all those undead, which means the wights are going to hit you and you are going to be running back to the temple for resurrection.

Triple-classing your mages will hurt you in Queen when the, ah, extra-special draconians resist your fireballs. But 4 elf C/F/Ms are a lot of fun in Champions--I successfully charged the Kernen Gate without doing any of the sidequests.

You are limited to 5th level spells with a Kender. Forever. That is why Kenders are not a good choice if you want to play the entire series, if you are someone who likes to see your characters grow. Their level limits are far too low compared to everyone elses'.

There is no right and wrong in how you play a game. There is only people's opinions as to which method is better. That is why I always qualify by suggestions by saying something like "from a powergaming point of view" and what might make your life easier.

A PC starting at level 16 F/M/C (level 14 but at XP cap for next two levels) will find Queen not as bad, but yes, it can get hairy if you don't know that trick.

 

[Jo498]

I just played Death Knights and my Kender Cleric did get the Heal spell which is 6th lvl, isn't it?
I used the same party for Champions and DKK and it was very good for the former, but not ideal for the latter (not exactly sure about Silv/Qual, from memory)

Human Knight
Human White Mage (the only female in the party)
Silvanesti Elf Ranger/Cleric of Mishakal
Qualinesti Elf Fighter/Red Mage
Qualinesti Elf Fighter/White Mage
Kender Thief/Cleric of Kiri-Jolith

I picked the White Mage for the single class because White advance more slowly. The party is totally fine for Champions and works well enough for Death Knights but it is somewhat short on Clerics, especially for the latter although the Knight can later change orders and cast some cleric spells, he can never turn undead. It would be better to have one Cleric of Majere with the better Turning ability and it would also be better to have one neutral cleric. So the combination Mishakal, Majere, Shinare is probably the best option (and I am pretty sure that I used this in earlier playthroughs). the +1 THAC0 is attractive, though, especially at low lvls. Another disadvantage is that in both games there is not much good gear for pure mages, so a mage/cleric could be an easier option.
I dislike the uncertain HP for multiclass when levelling up therefore I avoided triple class characters. The most annoying thing is that when reaching two levels at once they gain only one HP later on when they only receive fixed amounts of HP.

The Krynn games are fun for flexible and powerful parties but I don't think they are very good games (PoR, CotB and PoD are better). I love Champions for nostalgia and it is probably the best game for beginners because one is guided so well and it is so closely connected to the Dragonlance novels. It also has at least one rather unique quest (Knight's tomb) and a nice progression with the different sorts of draconians and dragons.
DKoK is not bad but it is flawed in several ways.

Spoiler

The obiligatory or minimal number of dungeons give a very short game and while it gets about twice as long with the optional ones, most of the optional ones are not connected very well to the main storyline and one can also get to them at a time when one is not strong enough (e.g. Kua toa, father of trees). Most of them are also kind of meh (I skipped the gnomes and could not find the dwarf with riddles). There are too few dragons in the game (and most of these encounters are optional) so the Dragonlance is devalued. There are only a bunch of Sivaks and overall hardly any draconians. There are also not enough Death Knights! I think there are one or two before the last dungeon which is somewhat disappointing. Of course there are plenty of annoying draining undead and unlike other games very few restoration scrolls, so it's power word reload

 

[Erebus]

Even putting aside racial level limits, it's not easy to design a party that will remain good throughout the entire series.

- A Knight is a must-have, if only because because of their ability to command the NPCs who'll join your team.

- A Cleric is absolutely necessary because there are no other reliable ways to heal your PCs : resting is super-slow and potions are extremely rare. Having two clerics is probably for the best (though they don't have to be single-classed) : if you have but one healer and he gets KOed during a fight, then you're in trouble. (Rangers and Knights eventually gain the ability to cast healing spells, but you can't count on that during the first game.)
The bonuses granted by deities are rather uneven. Mishakal increases the power of healing spells and that probably makes her the best choice.

- Thieves are by far the worst class in the Krynn games. Their backstab ability is strong, but you won't get to use it nearly as often as you think. Their non-combat abilities might as well not exist.

- Wizards are very strong, even before they gain access to fireballs (Stinking Cloud is going to be your best friend in the first game). I think you should have at least one single-classed wizard : he'll gain quicker access to higher-level spells and he'll be more effective against monsters with magic resistance.


My favorite party is as follow :

Knight
Ranger
Ranger/Cleric of Mishakal
Wizard/Cleric of Mishakal
White Wizard
Red Wizard

All humans, except for the multi-classed Clerics, who're elves.

 

[octavius]

I'd make one of the wizards an Elf Fighter/Mage.

Also, Knights become almost as good at spell casting as Clerics at advanced levels, so single class Clerics get relatively weaker the higher levels the party reach.

And a Kender Cleric/Thief good at lower level, and is the best character to deal with those pesky Skeletal Warriors in Death Knight. But becomes one of the weaker characters in Dark Queen.

 

[Erebus]

Also, Knights become almost as good at spell casting as Clerics at advanced levels, so single class Clerics get relatively weaker the higher levels the party reach.

True enough. While high-level Knights are good fighters and healers, high-level single-classed Clerics are largely useless in fights that don't involve undead. They have only one attack/round, less HP than fighters, a limited choice of weapon... And their few offensive spells aren't very impressive : Flame Strike is weaker than Magic Missile, Hold Person is no longer worth using because everyone has good saving throws, Blade Barrier inflicts decent damage but its range is very short.

Still, even for someone who only wanted to play DQK, I'm not sure putting two Knights and zero Clerics in your party would be a good idea. The Knight doesn't have access to the special bonus granted by Mishakal, that greatly increases the effectiveness of low-level healing spells, and it can really make a difference in big dungeons where you seldom get a chance to rest.

 

[ProphetSword]

I got through all three games pretty easily with this party:

Human Knight
Human Ranger
Half-Elf Fighter/Cleric of Mishakal/White Mage
Kender Fighter/Thief
Human Cleric of Mishakal
Human Red Mage

The Knight is needed for commanding NPCs and for the quests that revolve around the Knight. The Ranger is great against any giant-based creatures you encounter. The Fighter/Cleric/Mage covers the spells that the Red Mage doesn't get, acts as a back-up healer and is a fighter capable of wearing heavy armor and using any weapon. The Kender Fighter/Thief hits more reliably with backstab and can use a Hoopak and taunt the enemies (Kender taunt should not be overlooked). After that, the single class Cleric is good for healing and various other tricks and the single class mage is your go-to damage dealer.

Didn't have any issues with this party, even at high levels.

 

[Cael]

I just played Death Knights and my Kender Cleric did get the Heal spell which is 6th lvl, isn't it?
I used the same party for Champions and DKK and it was very good for the former, but not ideal for the latter (not exactly sure about Silv/Qual, from memory)

Human Knight
Human White Mage (the only female in the party)
Silvanesti Elf Ranger/Cleric of Mishakal
Qualinesti Elf Fighter/Red Mage
Qualinesti Elf Fighter/White Mage
Kender Thief/Cleric of Kiri-Jolith

I picked the White Mage for the single class because White advance more slowly. The party is totally fine for Champions and works well enough for Death Knights but it is somewhat short on Clerics, especially for the latter although the Knight can later change orders and cast some cleric spells, he can never turn undead. It would be better to have one Cleric of Majere with the better Turning ability and it would also be better to have one neutral cleric. So the combination Mishakal, Majere, Shinare is probably the best option (and I am pretty sure that I used this in earlier playthroughs). the +1 THAC0 is attractive, though, especially at low lvls. Another disadvantage is that in both games there is not much good gear for pure mages, so a mage/cleric could be an easier option.
I dislike the uncertain HP for multiclass when levelling up therefore I avoided triple class characters. The most annoying thing is that when reaching two levels at once they gain only one HP later on when they only receive fixed amounts of HP.

The Krynn games are fun for flexible and powerful parties but I don't think they are very good games (PoR, CotB and PoD are better). I love Champions for nostalgia and it is probably the best game for beginners because one is guided so well and it is so closely connected to the Dragonlance novels. It also has at least one rather unique quest (Knight's tomb) and a nice progression with the different sorts of draconians and dragons.
DKoK is not bad but it is flawed in several ways.

Spoiler

The obiligatory or minimal number of dungeons give a very short game and while it gets about twice as long with the optional ones, most of the optional ones are not connected very well to the main storyline and one can also get to them at a time when one is not strong enough (e.g. Kua toa, father of trees). Most of them are also kind of meh (I skipped the gnomes and could not find the dwarf with riddles). There are too few dragons in the game (and most of these encounters are optional) so the Dragonlance is devalued. There are only a bunch of Sivaks and overall hardly any draconians. There are also not enough Death Knights! I think there are one or two before the last dungeon which is somewhat disappointing. Of course there are plenty of annoying draining undead and unlike other games very few restoration scrolls, so it's power word reload

No. Kenders can't get level 6 spells, so no Heal for him, unless he was modified to have 18 Wisdom. This is going off DQK, though. DKK might have a slightly different cleric spell progression.

If you want single class mage, pick Red. Faster progression is good as you want the levels in DQK for a variety of reasons.

Ironically, at levels 10+, a triple class gain more HP than just about any other class due to the minimum of 1 hp gained per level (3 classes = 3 hp per "level"). Only Fighters and Paladins/Rangers (one of them, I forgot which) will match that.

Ranger/Cleric is a trap. Looks good on paper, but the absurd XP requirements for Ranger means that you will lag behind even a Knight of the Rose (who has a 500k XP/level table, the highest in the game). You would be better off getting a F/C/M than a R/C.

 

[Cael]

I got through all three games pretty easily with this party:

Human Knight
Human Ranger
Half-Elf Fighter/Cleric of Mishakal/White Mage
Kender Fighter/Thief
Human Cleric of Mishakal
Human Red Mage

The Knight is needed for commanding NPCs and for the quests that revolve around the Knight. The Ranger is great against any giant-based creatures you encounter. The Fighter/Cleric/Mage covers the spells that the Red Mage doesn't get, acts as a back-up healer and is a fighter capable of wearing heavy armor and using any weapon. The Kender Fighter/Thief hits more reliably with backstab and can use a Hoopak and taunt the enemies (Kender taunt should not be overlooked). After that, the single class Cleric is good for healing and various other tricks and the single class mage is your go-to damage dealer.

Didn't have any issues with this party, even at high levels.

Half-Elf maxes fighter at 9. Qualinesti max out at 14, just enough for the second attack.

Kender Fighter/Thief is a good option, giving the thief a far better armour and weapon selection and higher HP, all for fewer levels in Thief, which doesn't really matter as you will max it out in the first two games anyway, and in the third, higher levels for Thief doesn't really matter. Using the same logic, though, a Dwarf Fighter/Thief might be better for the higher HP, saves and number of attacks.


Mind you, your party is very similar to this one.

 

[Jo498]

My WIS 16 kender cleric definitely got Heal in Death Knights, despite what it says in the journal that he should not be able to get it. I don't hink that I have a modified/hacked version as it still has the double copy protection with both journal and manual questions (and I have had this lying around on some harddrive before GoG made the games readily available again).

And the single class mage should be of the type that advances more slowly because as the only single class character besides the knight s/he will advance more quickly than anyone else anyway and max out before the end of the game.
I agree that a Ranger/Cleric is not as good as he should be but very useful for the first two games. A pure ranger maxes out rather early in Champions and the giant bonuses make him very good in DKK where he is most effective against both the zombie/skeletal giants and the golems. He will do about twice the damage here compared to a normal fighter type.
As I already said above that the party was not ideal for DKK, I am not recommending it for all three games. But DQK would also be playable with them. The first two Krynn games are among the easiest ones in all Goldbox, and DQK is one of the hardest. I think one should not restrict oneself by what would be ideal for 3rd or 4th games in a series when creating a fun party for a low or midlevel game. This also applies to PoR vs. PoD.
When I first played Champions albout 28 years ago, I think we had Human Knight, Human Ranger, kender Cleric/thief Elf fighter/red mage and one elf cleric/mage (who should have been good/white, but I am not sure) and one elf or half-elf cleric/fighter/mage (again not sure about alignments). IIRC this also worked fine for both champions and DKK.

 

[Desiderius]

we

We were hotseating that bad boy with eight dudes.

Jocks playing D&D! Good times.

 

[Cael]

My WIS 16 kender cleric definitely got Heal in Death Knights, despite what it says in the journal that he should not be able to get it. I don't hink that I have a modified/hacked version as it still has the double copy protection with both journal and manual questions (and I have had this lying around on some harddrive before GoG made the games readily available again).

And the single class mage should be of the type that advances more slowly because as the only single class character besides the knight s/he will advance more quickly than anyone else anyway and max out before the end of the game.
I agree that a Ranger/Cleric is not as good as he should be but very useful for the first two games. A pure ranger maxes out rather early in Champions and the giant bonuses make him very good in DKK where he is most effective against both the zombie/skeletal giants and the golems. He will do about twice the damage here compared to a normal fighter type.
As I already said above that the party was not ideal for DKK, I am not recommending it for all three games. But DQK would also be playable with them. The first two Krynn games are among the easiest ones in all Goldbox, and DQK is one of the hardest. I think one should not restrict oneself by what would be ideal for 3rd or 4th games in a series when creating a fun party for a low or midlevel game. This also applies to PoR vs. PoD.
When I first played Champions albout 28 years ago, I think we had Human Knight, Human Ranger, kender Cleric/thief Elf fighter/red mage and one elf cleric/mage (who should have been good/white, but I am not sure) and one elf or half-elf cleric/fighter/mage (again not sure about alignments). IIRC this also worked fine for both champions and DKK.

DQK is where you want the higher levels in your mage as it directly affects your ability to punch through magic resistance. And you won't reach level limit, trust me on that one. Not even Thieves reach level DQK limit.

Knights will have to be Rose rank to go above level 18. Once you do that, it is 500k/level, and he will level as slowly as a multiclass character (but still faster than the Ranger), if not slower.

My standard party is 1 Knight + 5 Qualinesti F/C/M (all Kiri-Jolith), but I know the games backwards, so it is easier for me to swing this kind of party.

 

[Jo498]

we

We were hotseating that bad boy with eight dudes.

I was basically hotseating with my brother and occasionally another friend but I think that for convenience we did not strictly stick to it (I play knight, kender, white mage, you the rest) but rather changed every half hour or so.

 

[Dorateen]

Our party's cleric was a follower of Majere, which grants a bonus to turning undead. That was a welcome boost.