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Stellaris - Paradox new sci-fi grand strategy game

Tyrr

Savant
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
921
The problem with starbases is that they are 100% binary. Either they defeat enemy fleets, autorepair in a month, and the enemy will repeatedly throw fleets at it endlessly until they've lost ever ship available. Or they get steamrolled and 90% of the enemy fleet survives due to the retreat mechanic and is fully healed up next month. If you're playing on easy difficulties it's usually the former and if you're playing on harder difficulties its usually the latter.

On the military side, no evasion really sucks and the additional military platforms are implemented completely retardedly since they are separate targets with very high DPS and very low HP that get targetted and killed because of no evasion. They are really not alloy-effective.

On the non-military side, there's a big problem IMO where only machines and hives can really benefit from starbases economically. Normal empire get trade, which is a very weak mechanic and you don't even need to build trade starbases if you have enough starbases to put on every planet. If you ARE a machine or hive then Unyielding is indeed blatantly overpowered, you can literally feed and power your whole early to midgame empire with 10-15 starbases.
Making defense platform more important would make starbase defense less binary. I read they already buffed them in the last patch (+100% hp & higher weapon bonuses), but I didn't tried it out myself.
Removing weapon slots on the starbase and in turn add more to the platforms could also be done. But you also had to lower the cost of the platform (at least the upkeep).
 

Axioms

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
645
Was it ever that great though? Paradox fell into the trap of "story based gameplay" but without history to back them up.

Rather, without writing to back them up. Making a procgen galaxy instead of a hand-crafted one was their main mistake.

No the opposite, just don't try to add stupid hand-crafted events in a procgen game. If I see that fucking teapot one more time... Well I don't play it anymore so I won't but you see my point.
 

Ravielsk

Prophet
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
731
No the opposite, just don't try to add stupid hand-crafted events in a procgen game. If I see that fucking teapot one more time... Well I don't play it anymore so I won't but you see my point.
The problem is that the "hand-crafted" stuff is also entirely RNG so whatever story you get is usually hodgepodge of random events that do not connect into anything of substance.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,289
No the opposite, just don't try to add stupid hand-crafted events in a procgen game.

Overall procgen worlds suck. Procedural generation can be a useful tool to speed up work or add minor variation to an overall handcrafted world (think Diablo 2 - procedural generation adds level variation but the overall Acts and general areas where dungeons are located are fixed) but having the world be entirely procedurally generated yields a world that is soulless and which feels artificial, because it is. That is the reason why 4X games are nowhere near as good as grand strategy games, and it is why making Stellaris a 4X instead of a GS was a mistake.
 

Riel

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
760
Location
Itaca
No the opposite, just don't try to add stupid hand-crafted events in a procgen game.

Overall procgen worlds suck. Procedural generation can be a useful tool to speed up work or add minor variation to an overall handcrafted world (think Diablo 2 - procedural generation adds level variation but the overall Acts and general areas where dungeons are located are fixed) but having the world be entirely procedurally generated yields a world that is soulless and which feels artificial, because it is. That is the reason why 4X games are nowhere near as good as grand strategy games, and it is why making Stellaris a 4X instead of a GS was a mistake.

This a 4X game, procedural generation of the world is almost a must in the genre. Another thing is that I agree that story driven and procedural generation do not mix well and that is probably the originall flaw in Stellaris design from the beginning. Anyway I never played it for the anomalies or the excavations, what I like about it is the Empire Design and enjoying the fantasy that it's going to actually matter. Sometimes it actually works for a time.
 

Axioms

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
645
No the opposite, just don't try to add stupid hand-crafted events in a procgen game.

Overall procgen worlds suck. Procedural generation can be a useful tool to speed up work or add minor variation to an overall handcrafted world (think Diablo 2 - procedural generation adds level variation but the overall Acts and general areas where dungeons are located are fixed) but having the world be entirely procedurally generated yields a world that is soulless and which feels artificial, because it is. That is the reason why 4X games are nowhere near as good as grand strategy games, and it is why making Stellaris a 4X instead of a GS was a mistake.

But the reason the handcrafted world works and is popular is because it is based on history. There's a reason they never make a game about a boring or poorly documented part of history. Plus you can blame history for bad stuff. Stellaris is a sci fi game. There's virtually no sci fi grand strategy games comparable to Paradox historical games.
 
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
1,874,626
Location
Belém do Pará, Império Brasileiro
Unyielding is weak as fuck, only good reason to get it as a Tradition, is if you've started next-door to Genocidals.


. Normal empire get trade, which is a very weak mechanic and you don't even need to build trade starbases if you have enough starbases to put on every planet.

You can get a lot of money from trade, but you have to make a nation built for it.
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
5,436
Location
Space Hell
Unyielding is weak as fuck, only good reason to get it as a Tradition, is if you've started next-door to Genocidals.
Yeah, so weak it can give 125k str starbases. This thing is almost mandatory both early game and end-game. We'll see how things will change with relays as bases was the main source of delaying enemy fleet to get your to chokepoint in time.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,289
No the opposite, just don't try to add stupid hand-crafted events in a procgen game.

Overall procgen worlds suck. Procedural generation can be a useful tool to speed up work or add minor variation to an overall handcrafted world (think Diablo 2 - procedural generation adds level variation but the overall Acts and general areas where dungeons are located are fixed) but having the world be entirely procedurally generated yields a world that is soulless and which feels artificial, because it is. That is the reason why 4X games are nowhere near as good as grand strategy games, and it is why making Stellaris a 4X instead of a GS was a mistake.

But the reason the handcrafted world works and is popular is because it is based on history.

Wrong, see Anbennar.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
11,584
Unyielding is weak as fuck, only good reason to get it as a Tradition, is if you've started next-door to Genocidals.
Yeah, so weak it can give 125k str starbases. This thing is almost mandatory both early game and end-game. We'll see how things will change with relays as bases was the main source of delaying enemy fleet to get your to chokepoint in time.

Unfortunately a 125k str starbase is probably worth more like ~80k in fleet power and grand admiral AIs can get that around 80ish years in. And if you're fighting any kind of crisis or fallen/awoken empire its nothing on any difficulty.

Also, you're spamming Ion Cannons to get that which are 2k alloys apiece. That's ~16000 alloys per star base and those ion cannons will be destroyed even if the starbase wins.
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
5,436
Location
Space Hell
lso, you're spamming Ion Cannons to get that which are 2k alloys apiece. That's ~16000 alloys per star base and those ion cannons will be destroyed even if the starbase wins.
Tradition:
−50%
Starbase Upgrade Cost
And plus rare techs that you will get by that time to get another -25% cost reduction and +50% build speed.
Crisis often move in fleets of either 125k or 36-55k - and starbases successfully fend off that small fleets, preventing incrusons into your territory.
 

Riel

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
760
Location
Itaca
I think people are mixing two things that are related but they are different: Space Bases and Weapon Platforms:

Military Space bases are incredibly cost effective for what they provide, in many situations they won't be enough to stop the enemy on their own but will provide huge support to a defending fleet via extra firepower and soaking damage.
Economic Star Bases provide extra stuff without having to invest POPULATION: food, energy, trade and fleet capacity, even some minerals and science as some ethics attraction that will result in higher happiness on planet -> stability -> planetary production.
Weapon Platforms, are almost guaranteed casualties in any serious battle this is why they are considered very expensive, it's not that they actually are but that compared to a fleet that will be mostly recovered even after a defeat losing all weapon platforms is a huge blow to accumulated alloy production.

That said, Unyielding is one of the top tradition now, because it doesn't just make for better and cheaper bases/weapon platforms but provides other very useful bonuses as well, like less War Exhaustion, Fire Rate in defensive War, extra base capacity which can be converted into energy, food and ship capacity almost for free. Most other traditions have nerfed so badly that this one is very easily one of the best available now if not the absolute best.
 

coldcrow

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
1,541
Concerning vanilla game: Indeed, I haven't played unmodded stellaris for so long, I shouldn't have said anything about vanilla traditions.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
11,584
lso, you're spamming Ion Cannons to get that which are 2k alloys apiece. That's ~16000 alloys per star base and those ion cannons will be destroyed even if the starbase wins.
Tradition:
−50%
Starbase Upgrade Cost
And plus rare techs that you will get by that time to get another -25% cost reduction and +50% build speed.
Crisis often move in fleets of either 125k or 36-55k - and starbases successfully fend off that small fleets, preventing incrusons into your territory.
Starbase upgrade cost doesn't apply to defensive platforms. Or, if it does, then the 2k alloys per ion cannon was after the discount.
A starbase without unyielding will still have ~90k fleet power and will perform exactly the same against a 125k (totally destroyed) and a 36-55k fleet (easy win.

That said, Unyielding is one of the top tradition now, because it doesn't just make for better and cheaper bases/weapon platforms but provides other very useful bonuses as well, like less War Exhaustion, Fire Rate in defensive War, extra base capacity which can be converted into energy, food and ship capacity almost for free. Most other traditions have nerfed so badly that this one is very easily one of the best available now if not the absolute best.

Less war exhaustion generally doesn't matter because you should just win.
Fire rate in defensive wars is so rarely used as to not matter.
Extra base capacity for food is pretty weak. It's 10 per platform. Energy is great (honestly kind of broken) for hiveminds and machines, but normal empires don't get it. Running out of ship capacity is really rare if all your starbases but 1 or 2 at chokepoints are upgraded to full energy production.

Also note that supremacy's effects apply to starbases.
 
Last edited:

Don Salieri

Literate
Joined
May 5, 2022
Messages
16
They removed Caucasians from the game. Now the UNE Humans are either a pajeet, a chink, or a nigger.
It's paracuck, what do you expect? In the leaked Victoria 3 beta you can see how they remove Europeans after management talk to the artists. Suddenly there's niggers leading European revolutions and people have their race changed to fulfill Martin Anward's cuckold fetish or something, or maybe the company moneykike demanded it.

vf7vfHX.jpg


You think you have it bad? Oh you ain't seen nothing, pal. Even if there were real humans in Stellaris it would still be piece of shit game not worth playing. Some guy who posts here made a remake of Master of Orion, carbon copy down to minute mechanics, impossible to fuck it up if you clone it right. Except the humans are the encyclopedia picture you get in the section on dysgenics. Look at this shit, makes you think those ugly brown monkeys the kikes jam into everything aren't so bad anymore. A poster child of racial hygiene, I don't care what race you are, nobody wants their kids to look that fucked up.

GE4mqyR.jpg
 

Kruno

Arcane
Village Idiot Zionist Agent Shitposter
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
9,620
They removed Caucasians from the game. Now the UNE Humans are either a pajeet, a chink, or a nigger.
It fits my vision perfectly!
You should go watch some interracial porn!
 
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
1,874,626
Location
Belém do Pará, Império Brasileiro
They removed Caucasians from the game. Now the UNE Humans are either a pajeet, a chink, or a nigger.

I was looking at their forums, the original files are still there.

Surprise surprise, Paradox bugged up
 

Kruno

Arcane
Village Idiot Zionist Agent Shitposter
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
9,620
They removed Caucasians from the game. Now the UNE Humans are either a pajeet, a chink, or a nigger.

I was looking at their forums, the original files are still there.

Surprise surprise, Paradox bugged up
it is a marketing trick
if it backfires they can just say it was a bug
this was intentional to see if they could drum up more sales by being woke
 

Kruno

Arcane
Village Idiot Zionist Agent Shitposter
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
9,620
lso, you're spamming Ion Cannons to get that which are 2k alloys apiece. That's ~16000 alloys per star base and those ion cannons will be destroyed even if the starbase wins.
Tradition:
−50%
Starbase Upgrade Cost
And plus rare techs that you will get by that time to get another -25% cost reduction and +50% build speed.
Crisis often move in fleets of either 125k or 36-55k - and starbases successfully fend off that small fleets, preventing incrusons into your territory.
They changed the AI and how fleets separate. I wonder if what you said still holds.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
11,584
Vassals are busted. All you need is to get them to like you through bribes/trust + have a decent navy and rather than invade people you just give them the most lenient vassalage agreement and they'll just accept. Then you get them to support you in wars and later on you get them to give you 75% of their research/resources, which includes the busted higher difficulty bonuses now. Fanatic Xenophile is probably the best build in the game now but I was able to do this with a hugs and kisses machine empire, my first 4 vassals just accepted the agreement without a fight despite them being massively stronger than me.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,289
No the opposite, just don't try to add stupid hand-crafted events in a procgen game.

Overall procgen worlds suck. Procedural generation can be a useful tool to speed up work or add minor variation to an overall handcrafted world (think Diablo 2 - procedural generation adds level variation but the overall Acts and general areas where dungeons are located are fixed) but having the world be entirely procedurally generated yields a world that is soulless and which feels artificial, because it is. That is the reason why 4X games are nowhere near as good as grand strategy games, and it is why making Stellaris a 4X instead of a GS was a mistake.

This a 4X game.

Yes, hence I said that making it a 4X was a mistake. They should have made it a grand strategy game.
 
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