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The Codex of Roguelikes

Fenix

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
6,450
Location
Russia atchoum!
I am trying to get to Crawl/DCSS but it seems that the latest changes are not well received.

If I want to experience good old Crawl journey, from the older patches, on which patch should I start? Should I then try to play the old version one by one? Or is there a definitive old edition lists? I understand there is fork but I want to experience the original vision before delving into forks etc

Try the one with item weight, where monsters could pick up weapon, uncurse scrolls were more meaningful etc, I think 0.14 or something.
 

Irata

Learned
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
255
https://ptrefall.itch.io/horde-survivors

Personally, I wouldn't consider this a roguelike, but it fits the genre more than nearly everything else that claims to be one nowadays. It's a turn-based Vampire Survivors type game. I think more works needs to be done on balancing the difficulty (it is too easy), but guy the only had seven days to make it for one of itch.io's contests.
 

Saark

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
1,954
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
What do you mean by complete? Killing Kolmi? Because that's about 5% of the game. Collecting all Secrets? You need a PHD in 3 different sciences to have a shot at doing so.

 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Sad Loser
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
23,701
I am trying to get to Crawl/DCSS but it seems that the latest changes are not well received.

If I want to experience good old Crawl journey, from the older patches, on which patch should I start? Should I then try to play the old version one by one? Or is there a definitive old edition lists? I understand there is fork but I want to experience the original vision before delving into forks etc

Try the one with item weight, where monsters could pick up weapon, uncurse scrolls were more meaningful etc, I think 0.14 or something.
I had the most fun when it was called Linley's Dungeon Crawl.
 

ptrefall

Barely Literate
Joined
May 24, 2022
Messages
1
https://ptrefall.itch.io/horde-survivors

Personally, I wouldn't consider this a roguelike, but it fits the genre more than nearly everything else that claims to be one nowadays. It's a turn-based Vampire Survivors type game. I think more works needs to be done on balancing the difficulty (it is too easy), but guy the only had seven days to make it for one of itch.io's contests.
Thank you for the shout out Irata! :cool:
 

Morblot

Aberrant Member
Patron
Joined
Aug 30, 2014
Messages
1,971
Location
Finland
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
I am trying to get to Crawl/DCSS but it seems that the latest changes are not well received.

If I want to experience good old Crawl journey, from the older patches, on which patch should I start? Should I then try to play the old version one by one? Or is there a definitive old edition lists? I understand there is fork but I want to experience the original vision before delving into forks etc

Try the one with item weight, where monsters could pick up weapon, uncurse scrolls were more meaningful etc, I think 0.14 or something.
I had the most fun when it was called Linley's Dungeon Crawl.

It's still available: http://www.dungeoncrawl.org/

Version 3.3.0 is the last one that still had Linley Henzell as the lead developer. It's the version I play when I get the itch to crawl. I've never even come close to any sort of success in it. :D
 

MWaser

Arbiter
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Messages
564
Location
Where you won't find me
I have fairly fond memories of the early versions of Crawl I played (0.7, 0.8 and 0.12) but the modern versions of DCSS make me cringe, basically everything past 0.17/0.18 (don't remember which version it was exactly)
 

Brickfrog

Learned
Joined
Aug 28, 2020
Messages
787
.17 is my favorite.
Curious, can you elaborate?
.17 has some modern conveniences without going too far in stripping out old content. Item weigh doesn't exist but hunger does. it's also late enough in the dev cycle to have some of the more interesting and creative Gods and Unrandom artifacts.

For me, 0.17-18 hit the right balance of stripping out old and obnoxious mechanics while maintaining hunger and spell lists that I prefer over the modern updates.

I think almost all of my wins are in 0.17 or 0.18, so it's also somewhat nostalgic for me.

.19 is also pretty ok if I remember correctly. I think that's when Uskayaw was added.
 
Last edited:

Brickfrog

Learned
Joined
Aug 28, 2020
Messages
787
Honestly, as a long time player, I don't really hate modern crawl as much as most people seem to. Especially since we can easily download and play our preferred branches.

To a new player, I might even recommend starting with the current version. Youl get to focus on learning how skill growth works and strategies for fighting monsters while not having to worry about hunger. If you want a beefier challenge and a more classic rogue like experience, you can always download the older patches from the website.

I don't think anyone who's new to crawl and plays the latest version is going to think to themselves "this game would be a lot better if it had hunger and item weight mechanics!" That stuff only matters to people like us who have some nostalgia for it.
 
Last edited:

MWaser

Arbiter
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Messages
564
Location
Where you won't find me
Honestly, as a long time player, I don't really hate modern crawl as much as most people seem to. Especially since we can easily download and play our preferred branches.

To a new player, I might even recommend starting with the current version. Youl get to focus on learning how skill growth works and strategies for fighting monsters while not having to worry about hunger. If you want a beefier challenge and a more classic rogue like experience, you can always download the older patches from the website.

I don't think anyone who's new to crawl and plays the latest version is going to think to themselves "this game would be a lot better if it had hunger and item weight mechanics!" That stuff only matters to people like us who have some nostalgia for it.
it's not that I miss item weight (but hunger was definitely a preferred mechanic to the retarded Zod timer), but the key aspect of the Crawl dev cycle that makes it annoying is the formula which I like to call
"patch out mechanics, patch in damage"
Because all the new versions seem to make the game more difficult not by virtue of any mechanical complexity but by removing player choice (spells, reliable panic buttons escape mechanics like wands and god skills) and placing everything in the hands or RNG whether you will be able to succeed or not. I have a total of 4 wins because I never played Crawl that much, but I have 1 win each in 0.8 (played 0.7 but didn't get a win then), 0.12, 0.17 and 0.23. Played it some in 0.26 but I got tired and bored of the game before I managed to win (always tried Deep Elf Wizard because magic was one of the few unique things I actually enjoyed about DCSS). But I think the patch where they removed hunger and added in the dumb timer was really the breaking point of my tolerance with the devs. I was already annoyed enough when they removed Haste from the game. And then Wands of Haste later.
 

Matador

Arcane
Joined
Jun 14, 2016
Messages
1,244
Haste also removed? Jesus.

They are destroying the game, whether they know or not.

The endgame is having only the tab key and the god activation skill. And One god, Okawaru, dropping ammo and buffing combat.

Everything else is accessory, not optimal, tedious from these psychos perspective.
 

Irata

Learned
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
255
Mainframe Defenders 80% off.

I've not played it, but it has 90% rating. There is a demo too. The pictures make me think of Steam Marines or Bionic Dues.
 

PapaPetro

Omniscient
Patron
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
390
Location
Everywhere and Anywhere
Haste also removed? Jesus.
They are destroying the game, whether they know or not.

The endgame is having only the tab key and the god activation skill. And One god, Okawaru, dropping ammo and buffing combat.

Everything else is accessory, not optimal, tedious from these psychos perspective.
DCSS has been the Ship of Theseus in reverse.
They're pealing off mechanics and seeing if the game still is essentially DCSS.
 

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