The Dragon Age: Inquisition Thread

[nikolokolus]

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/12/15/Review-Dragon-Age-Inquisition

First off, it's worth explaining some historical context. Most of the worst things in the world come from Canada. Consider Shania Twain. Justin Bieber. Bryan Adams. Rufus Wainwright. Tom Green. Avril Lavigne. Michael Cera. Céline Dion. Nickelback. BioWare, developers of Dragon Age, are also Canadian.

CANADA!

I like the cut of his jib.

 

[Bleed the Man]

They realized the CoD audience isn't interested, so they're moving on to the Skyrim audience instead.

I'm someone who defends Skyrim on here as being "good for what it is" but Inquisition is still terrible. I don't think it gets anywhere close to capturing Skyrim's exploration, freedom or even quest design, which is really shockingly incompetent.

Whats the difference between "go to that cave and kill all draugrs" and "go to that outpost and kill all red templars"?
Replace draugrs with vampire/bandits/snow elves and red templars with tevinter/demons/venatori and you have 90% of quests in both games. I dont see a fucking difference between shitty Radiant Quests from Skyrim and shitty fetch quests for power points in DAI.
And dont even start with Skyrim quest design. Its fucking shit compared to fucking Oblivion.

Radiant quests aren't the only quests in Skyrim.

The thing is Skyrim at least puts a dungeon between your objective (a bad dungeon, but that's why its a shitty game), DAI I don't think it even has 10 dungeons in total, and they're extremely short.
That's my ponit of view anyway, as someone who despise both games, maybe DalekFlay can give you a better argument for that.

yes there are also guilds quests(thieves guild ) which are even shittier and than there is that masterpiece called "main quest" Compare it to Oblivions "Whodunit" quest

There are bigger dungeons in DAI like knights tomb in Emerald Graves or that elven temple. They are shit but compared to Skyrims "draugr+same shitty puzzle+draugr lord+chest+dragon word" its just different kind of shit. Like difference between stomach flu and diarrhea

I don't think this is woth talking about. You see it as different types of the same shit, i see them both as shit, just one slightly shittier than the other. Shittier or not, it's still shit.

Radiant quests aren't the only quests in Skyrim.

The thing is Skyrim at least puts a dungeon between your objective (a bad dungeon, but that's why its a shitty game), DAI I don't think it even has 10 dungeons in total, and they're extremely short.
That's my ponit of view anyway, as someone who despise both games, maybe DalekFlay can give you a better argument for that.

I'm going to get labeled a story fag for this, but an example of a great Skyrim quest was one where you returned a dagger from one priest to another in Whiterun.

The design of the quest was as "delivery boy" as you can get. NPC has an item, doesn't have time to take it where it needs to go, asks you, you run to another town, talk to an NPC, then return to the quest giver for a reward.

The part where this quest shines is the character development. The quest giver, Alessandra, starts out bitter and disappointed with her life, complaining that she hates the life her father left her, making her pick up the slack of being a priestess of the dead after he died suddenly. Out of contempt she did not return his dagger to the priesthood and gives the quest to you as more of a "whatever" in terms of priority.

Yet once you deliver the dagger, she talks about how she suddenly felt closure with her father and the life she now lives, saying she is read to embrace her role as being the support for those who have loved ones who pass away. Or some other business... the point? I felt like my character had changed the life of someone for the better, which is more than I can say to countless other quests; even larger quests like the Mages or Thieves guild.

To me, quest DESIGN doesn't even have to be complicated. Just make the reasons and development behind it more fulfilling and suddenly it becomes a quest worth doing, instead of just another item on the player's To Do list.

Well, you could say the same when you complete the fetch quests of the dalish clan of area "whatever" in order to get one of their members as an agent, and I didn't feel like I accomplished anything.

But I get your point, though. Thing is in Skyrim is easier to get that sensation because the world feels more alive. There's cities, villages, people you can talk that aren't even quest givers... while Inquisition is purely quest focused, just with grand empty spaces this time around.

 

[ZoddGuts]

Not only has DA:I bombed in the U.S. but also in the U.K. only charted in the first week only to never be seen again in the next week.

"There are more big new releases this week with a debut at No 5 for EA’s ‘Dragon Age: Inquisition’, selling almost exactly the same in week 1 as 2011’s ‘Dragon Age II’."
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=938809&highlight=pal+charts (First week)

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=947719&highlight=pal+charts (the next week's charts)

Same situation as the U.S. NPD Sales, sold about the same as DA2 despite having a higher budget, marketing and being on more consoles.

 

[Lhynn]

Seems like a lot of people just dont trust bioware anymore.

 

[Drakron]

No shit, Jesus I just seen how terrible bad fucking aweful the UI is ... good Lord, DA2 AT LEAST was playable ... this seems to be designed in compartments and assembled at the end, good Lord and if this is "this engine for everything" EA better find someone better that DICE because the engine is shiite.

Good Lord ...

 

[Franny Frogpill]

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/12/15/Review-Dragon-Age-Inquisition

Hilarious read and balm for the soul. Thanks.

 

[Abu Antar]

Euro charts are out for week 50. For the individual lists, Dragon Age: Inquisition does not make it into any of the countries I saw. It does make it if you look at the combine lists. Sounds like a disastrous result to me. I'm a bit surprised considering the reviews. But on the other hand, it's a sequel to Dragon Age 2.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

No shit, Jesus I just seen how terrible bad fucking aweful the UI is ... good Lord, DA2 AT LEAST was playable ... this seems to be designed in compartments and assembled at the end, good Lord and if this is "this engine for everything" EA better find someone better that DICE because the engine is shiite.

Good Lord ...

I know, it's beyond credulity. I was completely dismissive of this game's hype right up until a few weeks before release, but then I think it was on the codex that someone posted a video of the devs playing with the tactical camera and they were saying how PC focused the game is and how awesome tactics are going to be even more awesome than the awesome button. It brought me in to follow the game's progress further - have they really rediscovered the ol' Origins magic and actually managed to *shocks* improve upon it.

As the weeks went by, the hype was distinctly lacking anything other than action-only comabt previews, just that one video suggesting something engaging. And then the game hit, and I'm so glad I hadn't bought into the "developed as a PC game first and foremost" horseshit. The UI was horseshit and the tactical camera is basically a testicles camera. First patch did nothing to address any of this.

 

[nikolokolus]

Origins didn't have any "magic." It was competent if a little puerile, but at least it showed that Bioware was going to go back to telling "stories" with their games in a similar vein to BG I & II, but little did we know the asinine depths they would sink to in the name of pandering to SJW retards and Tumblrinas.

 

[Drakron]

Origins didn't have any "magic." It was competent if a little puerile, but at least it showed that Bioware was going to go back to telling "stories" with their games in a similar vein to BG I & II, but little did we know the asinine depths they would sink to in the name of pandering to SJW retards and Tumblrinas.

Origins was ... different, keep in mind Origins was after Mass Effect and Jade Empire that were console RPGs, it was a PC game that had part mechanics that fallen in disuse.

The "Magic" was a return to gameplay and storydrive mechanics that had vanished or were vanishing, remember it had multiple endings.

But it was likely the pet project of someone that left the company, it was also a long time in the making and EA likely pushed some console elements into it, them due to ME2 success it gone full into Mass Effect, its simply ... MassCreed: Inunity ... with SJW.

 

[Morality Games]

Euro charts are out for week 50. For the individual lists, Dragon Age: Inquisition does not make it into any of the countries I saw. It does make it if you look at the combine lists. Sounds like a disastrous result to me. I'm a bit surprised considering the reviews. But on the other hand, it's a sequel to Dragon Age 2.

RPGs don't sell well. I wish EA would realize that.

 

[nikolokolus]

With any luck they'll be so unhappy with the performance of DA:I they'll shutter Bioware.

 

[Morality Games]

With any luck they'll be so unhappy with the performance of DA:I they'll shutter Bioware.

Wouldn't describe that as 'luck'. Bioware sized demographics must look pretty good to Obsidian Entertainment.

Bioware soaks up the decline that would destroy other companies. The Grey Wardens are like, a metaphor for how Bioware takes in the taint so that Obsidian and inXile can survive.

 

[Azarkon]

Euro charts are out for week 50. For the individual lists, Dragon Age: Inquisition does not make it into any of the countries I saw. It does make it if you look at the combine lists. Sounds like a disastrous result to me. I'm a bit surprised considering the reviews. But on the other hand, it's a sequel to Dragon Age 2.

RPGs don't sell well. I wish EA would realize that.

Skyrim sold well. Witcher did average. DAO also did average. DA2 did terrible but was profitable for what it was. DAI, in case it does equally well/bad as DA2, is a catastrophe.

The picture is pretty bleak for RPGs, especially RPGs that aren't just action games repackaged as RPGs ala ME, but saying that it's just the genre is hyperbole. Bethesda in NA and CDProjekt in EU are both doing fine. The issue is the DA franchise - it's banal shit, and people are responding to that fact regardless of the amount of GOTYs EA buys.

 

[DeepOcean]

With any luck they'll be so unhappy with the performance of DA:I they'll shutter Bioware.

Some time from now on David Gaider twitter:

"Hey guys, I'm proud to announce I'm the new lead writer for Obsidian Entertainment. Pillars of Eternity 2 is going to have flamming head trans paladins, I can't wait."

 

[PhantasmaNL]

If it sells DA2 numbers it would indeed be poetic justice since its basically a reworking / even further dumbing of DA2. Good post on the unmentionable forums, where ts asks why BW took DA2 as a basis for DAI (since that was considered a failure) instead of DAO (which was seen as fairly good).

And of course it pretty hard to correctly interpret sales numbers, which are often incomplete etc. Im pretty sure it will make a profit though, if thats enough for the EA sharks is another matter.

 

[nikolokolus]

If it sells DA2 numbers it would indeed be poetic justice since its basically a reworking / even further dumbing of DA2. Good post on the unmentionable forums, where ts asks why BW took DA2 as a basis for DAI (since that was considered a failure) instead of DAO (which was seen as fairly good).

And of course it pretty hard to correctly interpret sales numbers, which are often incomplete etc. Im pretty sure it will make a profit though, if thats enough for the EA sharks is another matter.

Bean counters look at trends, if they see a declining trend, then chances are they see it as a long term loser.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

RPGs don't sell well. I wish EA would realize that.

?

I know the following games aren't monocled cRPGs, but they are recognisable firm RPG genre material that draws attention to and further interest in the genre:

From the Wiki list of best selling games OF ALL TIME (all platforms):

Skyrim
Diablo III

And browsing the by-platform lists:

Final Fantasy (lots of editions)
KOTOR
Morrowind
Guild Wars
World of Warfare

Basically all the titles you'd expect to see on the list. Bioware was on the verge with Baldur's Gate II, which apparently sold a cool 2 million copies, when 2 million was a very cool number, just out of reach of the all-time numbers, likewise The Witcher series with similar numbers and, of course, Everquest and Dragon Age, to name but a few from a couple of lists anyone can quickly search. Even the Black Isle titles amassed near a million sales and people often falsely parade these as under-performing titles, which is highly incorrect.

I don't think there's any proof at all that RPGs don't sell, quite the opposite in fact, which is why people keep making them. As Divinity: Original Sin recently proved, there's a good 1,000,000 people out there who will buy a decent to good RPG. If 1 million isn't enough to be considered more than "don't sell", then fuck what I'm drinking, I want what you're injecting!

 

[DragoFireheart]

So if I'm reading MicoSelva Lets Play of BG2 correctly, the awesome button in Bioware games has been around in some shape or form for quite some time now.

Ironic that Baldur's Gate 2 was the start of the decline considering how much praise it gets.

 

[Frozen]

You are confusing engine complexity with graphics. The Infinity Engine couldn't handle a game from today, but that's not strictly graphics involved. Games today have the ability for wider scripting, more intuitive AI, larger detection ranges, more complex physics interactions, cycles such as day/night or rain/sun and the ability to handle the animations and programming of more and more NPCs on one map.

It's not "graphics" that push the game limits. Not alone. Not by a long shot. The Nemesis system is not that complex in terms of processing requirements. It is more of a design, with a huge net of "if/then" statements that account for all the varying relationships. That's more work, not more GPU processing speed.

So, again... get out of here with that "graphics represent progress in the industry and consoles are holding us back" nonsense. There's many things you can attribute to console gaming and AAA development about the oversimplification of systems - "graphics not being more shiny" is not a valid one.

It was still a progress that made it possible, and progress is like it or not from a marketing standpoint pushed by shiny, by graphics.
We are still talking about kids entertainment at large. How it looks is the most important thing so you can sell it. And you need development in other departments to make it look better. If it didn't and tech capabilities where there, they would slap photorealistic world on DAI and it would sell 100 times more, people are morons.
Without shiny mmo and bad action games you wouldn't have technical capabilities for D:OS.
Is D:OS gameplay wise un upgrade to BG? I think it is. Combat is more fun.
Most games with real C&C that you can consider quality has it in a- leads to b or c, c leads to f or g.
If something can be created within a game engine to emulate GM than its progress. You have more variations . And for that you need more power etc. That would be fun and also an upgrade.

 

[Morality Games]

RPGs don't sell well. I wish EA would realize that.

?

I know the following games aren't monocled cRPGs, but they are recognisable firm RPG genre material that draws attention to and further interest in the genre:

From the Wiki list of best selling games OF ALL TIME (all platforms):

Skyrim
Diablo III

And browsing the by-platform lists:

Final Fantasy (lots of editions)
KOTOR
Morrowind
Guild Wars
World of Warfare

Basically all the titles you'd expect to see on the list. Bioware was on the verge with Baldur's Gate II, which apparently sold a cool 2 million copies, when 2 million was a very cool number, just out of reach of the all-time numbers, likewise The Witcher series with similar numbers and, of course, Everquest and Dragon Age, to name but a few from a couple of lists anyone can quickly search. Even the Black Isle titles amassed near a million sales and people often falsely parade these as under-performing titles, which is highly incorrect.

I don't think there's any proof at all that RPGs don't sell, quite the opposite in fact, which is why people keep making them. As Divinity: Original Sin recently proved, there's a good 1,000,000 people out there who will buy a decent to good RPG. If 1 million isn't enough to be considered more than "don't sell", then fuck what I'm drinking, I want what you're injecting!

That list of bestselling Holiday games? Far Cry is #6 of 10 and can expect like 10,000,000 sales.

 

[Frozen]

Too many missteps for one post.

Nor does turn based make it a good one. I'm all for the nostalgic fags and love D:OS but turn based is not upgrade to real time, it was part of technology restrictions of its time.

Pls fist urself and then die. kthxbai

Made me laugh, but the technology restrictions thing is old hat by now.

I'm not sure if everyone who spreads these views are trolls, though. It's a very widespread idea. If you hang around TBS games' forums on Steam you generally don't have to wait very long to see someone complaining about the fact that they're not real-time. It seems all the modern popamole wants is twitchy games that are easily processed by their mtn dew addled brains.

I really don't give a shit that for most of you dice roll and end turn are the best things since sliced bread and history should just stop there.Spare me the butthurt.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

That list of bestselling Holiday games? Far Cry is #6 of 10 and can expect like 10,000,000 sales.

So by that logic everyone should make Tetris or Minecraft games because, by comparison, everything else sells fuck-all... whoop-de-do, you found a game that sells better than a currently selling RPG, what, you want an RPG permanently in the top 10 or else you're going to cry doom and despair like a comedic parody character?

 

[Slow James]

It was still a progress that made it possible, and progress is like it or not from a marketing standpoint pushed by shiny, by graphics.
We are still talking about kids entertainment at large. How it looks is the most important thing so you can sell it. And you need development in other departments to make it look better. If it didn't and tech capabilities where there, they would slap photorealistic world on DAI and it would sell 100 times more, people are morons.
Without shiny mmo and bad action games you wouldn't have technical capabilities for D:OS.
Is D:OS gameplay wise un upgrade to BG? I think it is. Combat is more fun.
Most games with real C&C that you can consider quality has it in a- leads to b or c, c leads to f or g.
If something can be created within a game engine to emulate GM than its progress. You have more variations . And for that you need more power etc. That would be fun and also an upgrade.

Your point is terrible and your logic is circular.

Your original post - DA:I is shit and it has shit graphics due to consoles holding everyone back.

Your last post - graphics are the way the gaming industry gets paid, so don't bad mouth graphics or we wouldn't have RPGs.

By that same token, if we didn't have consoles, which outnumber PC game sales and which are the bread and butter of the industry, we wouldn't have RPGs either. Way to defeat your own original point.

Again - there's plenty to complain about in DA:I. And there's plenty to complain about with the consolification of the industry. But saying "this game would have had better graphics if not for consoles" is not a good argument, because shinier graphics for DA:I is just sprinkling powdered sugar on top of rank fecal matter. It's not enough to cover the stink, let alone make it taste good.

 

[Jick Magger]

After Dragon Age 2, which looked horrific and had the most laughably bad eyebrow animations I've ever seen without its HD patch, graphics are probably the smallest issue I have with the game. Only problem I really had with it was the hair still looks awful.