Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Zed]

I agree with others. The 'critically wounded beep beep hurry up' shit is bad. I let my character die and continued with 3 characters because I couldn't be arsed fiddling with the cumbersome UI under time-pressure.
One of the strengths of turn-based gameplay is the sense of calm and peace; you can take your time and strategically make informed choices. This kind of shit completely defeats that.

Anyway, these are my Notepad alt-tab notes from tonight. The following (inside the spoiler) is not constructive feedback. It's all negative, and I purposely left out any positives, although there could be a suggestion or two. It's stuff I jotted down as I played. It reflects my frustrations and annoyances. I also wrote it quickly and shoddily, as I was pretty pissed most of the time.

Spoiler

Character Creation:

You don't get to spend enough skill points at creation to make any meaningful choices. You can't be like "oh this guy come from eastern europe and he's a survivalist and is a demolisionist kamikazee combatant" because you won't have enough points to define him.
Perhaps weapon and social/survival/knowledge/whatever skills could to be separated, so that each character could allocate both combat shit AND fun stuff.
I don't know, it just feels like I'm either choosing "bad combatant" or "good combatant", and only the "bad combatants" can be 'fun' characters. Any 'good combatant' only gets 1 skill to spend in the more character-defining skills. Wheee.

The portraits are way too few. The starting place had two people looking the same as characters in my party.

I don't understand some of the face textures. Are they supposed to be dirty? Bad shaving? Are they Zombies? Are those wounds? Shitty graphics is one thing, not being able to make something out is another.

I just keep thinking Fallout has a better character creation screen because you can see everything on one screen, it's all in one place and it's consistent with what you see in-game when you bring up the character sheet. It's much easier to adjust points and 'perfect' your character.

Non-combat Gameplay:

Would it be a lot of work to remove keywords, take all the full strings and put them in a descending, vertical order instead? I honestly can't be arsed to hover over each keyword and select stuff in a two-step manner. Such a bad presentation. Can't use 1-2-3-4 etc. either, must use mouse or type the words.

I wanted to turn off the automatic follow-the-characters camera shit but there wasn't an option for it. Was this something added in the patch? I don't remember the camera being this annoying before, and I hated it already. Worst camera since Dungeon Siege 3.

Still don't understand the purpose of the water resource in travel mode. What does it add to the game? No sense of 'survival', and definitely nothing fun. Oases are everywhere anyway.

Using skills feel extremely slow. Either super slow animations (using inventory items) or having to wait for this abstract logo to finish glowing up (toaster repair, lockpick etc).

The following bits of the interface are way too small: icons/action bar, dialogue window, minimap.

B for backpack, I guess? Fuck that, bind I (as in intentory) to backpack. F5 to save, F9 to load, C for character sheet and I for inventory. Those are the CRPG standards fffffffffffffssss.

Combat/post-combat Gameplay:

The wounded system sucks ass. What the fuck is this realtime countdown doing in a game with turn-based combat? Having to stress through a clunky fucking interface as a clock is beeping is stupid. What insanely horrible design. You know what I did? I let the critically wounded person die as I took my time to heal all the other non-stressing people, because fuck that stupid stuff. I carried on playing with a 3 man party.
Too bad the person who died was my only viable combatant because the character system sucks.

Characters miss way too fucking much. 80% to hit? More like 80% to completely miss.

In short: I actually dislike the game. Systems, writing, and especially presentation - nope, nothing really sticks for me. Everything feels so fleeting and... cheap, as if I wouldn't get anything from investing my time into the game. That's alright. Every single game is not for everybody. I'm just surprised at my distaste for it. It's a pre-beta, beta, alpha, whatever - yes, but there's enough in here for me to safely say I simply don't like it, and won't like any future iterations either. It's not just presentation and UI. I don't like the character system, camera, combat, dialogue, areas, characters, writing. It's not a game for me.

BTW, I assume this is a graphics bug or something? The desert ground texture looked like this everywhere.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Yeah, Zed. I don't feel quite as strongly as you but what I thought we'd get and what we got is pretty goddamn disappointing to me too. And I feel like it's just well beyond hoping anything can in any way improve enough to make a difference. Comparing this to something like Underrail, a beautifully rendered, low-budget and up until recently one-man-project and it's not even remotely hard to tell the lack of creative direction and control on this thing. Fargo was so goddamn worried about selling this thing he forgot to make it, y'know, good. Here's the game, for better or worse, and while I'm sure some tweaks will be made for the better...this is what we get. *sigh*

Anyway: "Angela Deth loses control!"

*hides behind rock, loads ammo, end turn*

Fucking lol.

 

[Zed]

I don't feel very strongly, I just try to express myself clearly

 

[tuluse]

Zed for character creation I've never found a combat skill needed more than 2 points to start. I default to 2 skill points for all starting skills. That lets you define your character while still being competent enough at the beginning.

 

[sea]

Have the maps 'opened up' since the alpha was originally released, or are they the same pseudo-corridors? I don't mean to rehash an old discussion, but I haven't seen any patch notes re: those kind of map changes.

Not really, though some stuff has been redesigned with respect to combat, and Rail Nomads has seen significant new additions that make it bigger (though doesn't really overhaul the core design entirely).

 

[Excidium]

But it's on the plans right?

 

[Roguey]

They're not going to change level design that already exists.

 

[agris]

Have the maps 'opened up' since the alpha was originally released, or are they the same pseudo-corridors? I don't mean to rehash an old discussion, but I haven't seen any patch notes re: those kind of map changes.

Not really, though some stuff has been redesigned with respect to combat, and Rail Nomads has seen significant new additions that make it bigger (though doesn't really overhaul the core design entirely).

Thanks sea. Here's hoping some of the maps have a much more open layout.

 

[Grotesque]

Have the maps 'opened up' since the alpha was originally released, or are they the same pseudo-corridors? I don't mean to rehash an old discussion, but I haven't seen any patch notes re: those kind of map changes.

This was for me the most anticipated redesign choice I hoped for from this update.
And I do want to rehash an old discussion because playing in a bucket gives me claustrophobia.

 

[sea]

But it's on the plans right?

Not counting Rail Nomads, I believe that the maps in the beta are some of the more straightforward/linear in the game.

I think the design for Highpool and Ag Center already works fine considering the goals/scope of them and I'm not sure if there are any plans to change the designs fundamentally (though obviously new content will be an ongoing addition).

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Levelling is actually even more annoying than before the patch, it was already a mess, but now it's just awful. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but the arrows to put up the skill rarely show up for me, I tend to have to move my mouse all over the place before anything actually happens. I'd much prefer if the level up arrows were constant and didn't just appear when you hover over them.(Mostly because they don't actually appear more than half the time.)

 

[sea]

Levelling is actually even more annoying than before the patch, it was already a mess, but now it's just awful. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but the arrows to put up the skill rarely show up for me, I tend to have to move my mouse all over the place before anything actually happens. I'd much prefer if the level up arrows were constant and didn't just appear when you hover over them.(Mostly because they don't actually appear more than half the time.)

Yeah I think that's just buggy/WIP stuff.

 

[Zombra]

I haven't tried this build yet ... but the true master race solution would allow tab/shift+tab to scroll through skills, and arrow keys to increase/decrease values.

 

[MLMarkland]

Levelling is actually even more annoying than before the patch, it was already a mess, but now it's just awful. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but the arrows to put up the skill rarely show up for me, I tend to have to move my mouse all over the place before anything actually happens. I'd much prefer if the level up arrows were constant and didn't just appear when you hover over them.(Mostly because they don't actually appear more than half the time.)

Yeah I think that's just buggy/WIP stuff.

Yes, bug.

They're not going to change level design that already exists.

This is incorrect.

The Prison map underwent wholesale revisions to the point where the level was split into two separate scenes. The new Prison map is a lot more non-linear now.

Sea, I think you are unaware of this because you never played the original Prison.

Creating level content at this point in development is closer to the creation of an expansion pack because the base game and tools are stable (mostly) now. And while Unity has some optimization and resource management issues, it is a technology that is particularly supportive of rapid design iteration. In some regards, I think it's the engine that is most supportive of rapid iteration of all of the technologies I've worked with.

Have the maps 'opened up' since the alpha was originally released, or are they the same pseudo-corridors? I don't mean to rehash an old discussion, but I haven't seen any patch notes re: those kind of map changes.

This was for me the most anticipated redesign choice I hoped for from this update. And I do want to rehash an old discussion because playing in a bucket gives me claustrophobia.

The totality of the game is, and the majority of maps and half of the currently released beta levels are, very open. And even in regards to the somewhat more linear Ag Center and Highpool levels, there's more fine-grained variance in outcomes in those two levels than in most entire games.

Spoiler

Additionally, consider just the beginning of the game... Coming out of Ranger Citadel you can go to Ag Center, you can go to Highpool, you can ignore both distress calls and go to Rail Nomads, you can go grind random encounters and buy a SAW before going to any of the main maps and tear people apart with your heavy weapons specialist, you can probably do a bunch of other things too.

 

[Daedalos]

I'm really not liking the character UI screens. Ugh.

Too much mess of information thrown together, and too much redundant tabs and bars with the same information. It feels cumbersome and clunky to actually level up, and select skills.

Navigation through the character ui should be alot more smooth and easy, and as others have mentioned, the dossier tab could have stuff about your playthrough..

What about a karma/reputation system? Is that going to be in, in some form?


I'm through Highpool and AgCenter now, onwards to railways and prison.. so far the C&C is somewhat okay.. better than last time.. and the little subquests are good. Haven't see alot of reactivity yet, but some, which was good. I except more, when I play a lil more through railways, Ranger Citadel and Prison.

AgCenter interiors could be vastly improved though. They are very cumbersome, and hard to make out. Especially inside the main compound of AGCenter. You have to constantly zoom in and out with the mouse... it's confusing at times.. and annoying, because the spaces are so small and you might miss details.

This goes for Highpool basement level too..


Also currently, the difficulty strikes me as incredibly easy. You level up very fast, and you got an abundance of skills. I think the difficulty of picking locks and a safe.. along with all other skill checks, should be raised significantly. I literally just mow through most of the stuff.

There's something very cool about not being able to get ALL the stuff through 1 playthrough, because you didn't have the adaquate skills, because you couldn't choose all the skills, because you didn't have enough xp at that time..

Gives a feel of real choice, being limited and gives more unique playthroughs..



The death animations are pretty cool, explosions too and stuff like that.. but I'm still waiting for more awesome animations.. fallout style.. like limbs flying off.. and more gruesome deaths when you critical hit somebody... Also targeted fire should be interesting with that mechanic down the road.

Overall, I'm enjoying myself alot more with this lastest patch than the previous ones. The visuals have also improved, and it shows. The camera is still somewhat clunky, and annoying at times, because of all the zoom in/out requirements to make stuff out and get a view.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

You don't deserve a fanboy tag.

 

[FeelTheRads]

This is a great idea and I approve wholeheartedly.

Remember that Fargo kept advertising that biography thing in the Kickstarter. So I guess they NEED to have it, like a pointlessly configurable interface.

Believe me, nobody will ever type anything in there. NOBODY. It's pointlessly wasted space and if you really want it it should be a button somewhere that opens a separate window. Where you will never type anything ever.

 

[MicoSelva]

Also currently, the difficulty strikes me as incredibly easy. You level up very fast, and you got an abundance of skills. I think the difficulty of picking locks and a safe.. along with all other skill checks, should be raised significantly. I literally just mow through most of the stuff.

So, this hasn't changed since the initial build. I mowed through Ag Center using only rudimentary combat skills, or even less than that. I switched to melee weapons after a couple of fights, even if only half of my chars had any skills in bladed/blunt, and barely had any problems winning a fight, not counting Robots!.

But this is to be expected, balancing usually comes last in development. I just hope the main quest path does not stay easier than the rest of the game, you know, for people who only want to breeze through the game, as it seems to be the case now (random encounters can be challenging at times).

This is a great idea and I approve wholeheartedly.

Remember that Fargo kept advertising that biography thing in the Kickstarter. So I guess they NEED to have it, like a pointlessly configurable interface.

Believe me, nobody will ever type anything in there. NOBODY. It's pointlessly wasted space and if you really want it it should be a button somewhere that opens a separate window. Where you will never type anything ever.

Not true, LPers could write something there, especially if the party is composed of forum users who you make jabs at.
You could also make notes there, I guess, if the field is editable during the game.

 

[Infinitron]

Game got a 30 megabyte hotfix today. Apparently it addresses the "infinite loading" issue.

 

[Roguey]

This is incorrect.

The Prison map underwent wholesale revisions to the point where the level was split into two separate scenes. The new Prison map is a lot more non-linear now.

Sea, I think you are unaware of this because you never played the original Prison.

Creating level content at this point in development is closer to the creation of an expansion pack because the base game and tools are stable (mostly) now. And while Unity has some optimization and resource management issues, it is a technology that is particularly supportive of rapid design iteration. In some regards, I think it's the engine that is most supportive of rapid iteration of all of the technologies I've worked with.

We've seen the prison area and a rough map of it from the video made last year, someone make a new map to compare.

 

[Lhynn]

This is a great idea and I approve wholeheartedly.

Remember that Fargo kept advertising that biography thing in the Kickstarter. So I guess they NEED to have it, like a pointlessly configurable interface.

Believe me, nobody will ever type anything in there. NOBODY. It's pointlessly wasted space and if you really want it it should be a button somewhere that opens a separate window. Where you will never type anything ever.

I vow to make a tranny and name it FeelTheRads, then copy a selection of your most inane posts and chuckle every time i read it as i play the game. you are invited to do the same, but i doubt my entire post history will fit. Then we will both feel good, because i proved you wrong and because you got to use that feature.

 

[Brother None]

But this is to be expected, balancing usually comes last in development.

Pretty much this but please do keep posting feedback and we'll keep tweaking. I think the balance is better now in the sense that there's more consequences to using different weapon varieties, better enemy AI and encounter design and armor is no longer a broken mechanics, but there's still a long way to go, and I did notice while testing myself that it was rather easy.

This is a great idea and I approve wholeheartedly.

Remember that Fargo kept advertising that biography thing in the Kickstarter. So I guess they NEED to have it, like a pointlessly configurable interface.

Believe me, nobody will ever type anything in there. NOBODY. It's pointlessly wasted space and if you really want it it should be a button somewhere that opens a separate window. Where you will never type anything ever.

Not true, LPers could write something there, especially if the party is composed of forum users who you make jabs at.
You could also make notes there, I guess, if the field is editable during the game.

It's not for everyone but I've seen shots and videos with people using that feature and nothing is harmed by keeping it in. I do like the idea of vanity stats if it's easy to do, I'll bounce that idea around the office.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Agreed with BN, I've used that space for that very purpose(Making fun of friends on Let's plays.), although if I had to choose one or the other the stats would obviously be my choice. Not that there needs to be a choice between the two.

 

[aris]

So is this game good yet?

 

[Lhynn]

So is this game good yet?

Its getting there.