The Witcher 3 GOTY Edition

[jackofshadows]

True, but TW3 also has much more C&C in terms of quest resolutions and what not

С&C are nice but again, they're not depend on progression system in any way. Besides, TW3 don't have even any stripped down reputation/morale ME-like system, you can be a total asshole one second and then save a kitten next, the game still won't care. The whole role-play experience would be happening only in the player's head like in any sandbox game, basically.

It allows for more maybe, but both have it. TW3 on the other hand also has a real combat system and an equipment & inventory system which is much better integrated into the game's mechanics and much more fleshed out. From this perspective, TW3 allows both for the more theatrical part of roleplay (C&C and what not) and the more wargamey part which combatfags define as the quintessential aspect of a CRPG.

I cannot speak for combatfags but I doubt they're satisfied with the fact that combat's outcome more relies on their own skills than on game's systems.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Creating a character concept and expressing it through your choices.

How am I to express my character concept in a game sans combat dammit.

Well, you are playing an adventure where the GM is expecting more investigation and less combat and is limiting the combat through plot setup and NPCs.

What do you do in a PnP game? You persist on trying to fight people your GM doesn't want you to - oh look, a general insurrection began in the neighbourhood and now you can't proceed with the investigation, what pity, game over. Or, you conform to the limitation and play along with the GM's plot. If you wanted an adventure with combat, then you need a different adventure.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

True, but TW3 also has much more C&C in terms of quest resolutions and what not

С&C are nice but again, they're not depend on progression system in any way. Besides, TW3 don't have even any stripped down reputation/morale ME-like system, you can be a total asshole one second and then save a kitten next, the game still won't care. The whole role-play experience would be happening only in the player's head like in any sandbox game, basically.

You should check out that recent thread about dialogue systems for a more in-depth take on what I am about to say, but basically this is a non-issue for a game like TW3. The way in which roleplaying is done via dialogue in TW3 is not meant to shape your PC (as is the case in the ME trilogy, DA2 and PoE 1&2), but rather to reinforce the preexisting identity of Geralt. In other words, roleplay comes in as a means through which you decide upon Geralt's line of reasoning and the decision it ultimately results in. In that sense, the fact that the game doesn't 'care' doesn't amount to a schizophrenic portrayal since these choices aren't rooted in alignment. You yourself can be good to a person and bad to another in a matter of minutes.

It allows for more maybe, but both have it. TW3 on the other hand also has a real combat system and an equipment & inventory system which is much better integrated into the game's mechanics and much more fleshed out. From this perspective, TW3 allows both for the more theatrical part of roleplay (C&C and what not) and the more wargamey part which combatfags define as the quintessential aspect of a CRPG.

I cannot say for combatfags but I doubt they're satisfied with the fact that combat's outcome more relies on their own skills than on game's systems.

Eh, that player skill is still predicated upon the game's systems. The fact that it is action oriented doesn't invalidate the build choices you have, especially on higher difficulties.

I should also add that, for all its faults, I personally enjoyed it.

 

[AwesomeButton]

True, but TW3 also has much more C&C in terms of quest resolutions and what not, while DE's strong point is that it gives you an overabundance of textual flavor.

C&C alone isn't "RPG enough" in my opinion. Fantasy setting alone neither. Twitch action combat doesn't even count. Why should the three put together make a videogame an RPG?

It allows for more maybe, but both have it. TW3 on the other hand also has a real combat system and an equipment & inventory system which is much better integrated into the game's mechanics and much more fleshed out. From this perspective, TW3 allows for both the more theatrical part of roleplaying (C&C and what not) and the more wargamey part which combatfags define as the quintessential aspect of a CRPG.

"real combat system" - see above.
"equipment and inventory system" - If we consider how much equipment matters ingame, Disco Elysium's matters more than Witcher 3's.
"better integrated into the game's mechanics and much more fleshed out" - I don't know what you mean by this.
"wargamey part" - Witcher 3 and wargames :D If there are "combatfags" who would announce even an action game is an RPG as long as it has any combat system, I wouldn't even argue with them.
"TW3 allows for both the more theatrical part of roleplaying (C&C and what not)" - Character expression is much more constrained in Witcher 3 because that's not the game's focus while in DE it is the game's focus, even if both games have pre-determined protagonists.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

True, but TW3 also has much more C&C in terms of quest resolutions and what not, while DE's strong point is that it gives you an overabundance of textual flavor.

C&C alone isn't "RPG enough" in my opinion. Fantasy setting alone neither. Twitch action combat doesn't even count. Why should the three put together make a videogame an RPG?

But what makes an RPG?

It allows for more maybe, but both have it. TW3 on the other hand also has a real combat system and an equipment & inventory system which is much better integrated into the game's mechanics and much more fleshed out. From this perspective, TW3 allows for both the more theatrical part of roleplaying (C&C and what not) and the more wargamey part which combatfags define as the quintessential aspect of a CRPG.

"real combat system" - see above.
"equipment and inventory system" - If we consider how much equipment matters ingame, Disco Elysium's matters more than Witcher 3's.
"better integrated into the game's mechanics and much more fleshed out" - I don't know what you mean by this.
"wargamey part" - Witcher 3 and wargames :D If there are "combatfags" who would announce even an action game is an RPG as long as it has any combat system, I wouldn't even argue with them.
"TW3 allows for both the more theatrical part of roleplaying (C&C and what not)" - Character expression is much more constrained in Witcher 3 because that's not the game's focus while in DE it is the game's focus, even if both games have pre-determined protagonists.

Still a real combat system with skills to choose from and tactics to employ (thought admittedly these tend to be restrained to a few optimal rotations).

On the issue of inventory, you have plenty of more items that influence the (combat) gameplay (from concoctions to runes), you have a crafting system and the equipment itself is integrated within a character build, while items only affect skills in the case of DE (to which I'd also include the two health stats) rather than gameplay. And in DE your clothing doesn't shape a certain build, but rather the items serve as items of convenience to pass this or that skill check.

And yeah, 'wargamey' in the sense of the divide between traditional roleplaying as theatrical performance and as a game based upon mechanics.

And as for both having pre-determined protagonists, that's true. Yet DE's protagonist (akin to PST's TNO) is nonetheless left as a blank slate for you to shape, while Geralt has a preestablished personalty even with his amnesia. But yeah, these games offer two different types of roleplaying your character.

 

[Dedicated_Dark]

TW3 on the other hand also has a real combat system and an equipment & inventory system which is much better integrated into the game's mechanics and much more fleshed out.

Did we play the same game? Are you joking? The Witcher 3's combat system balancing is a joke with prevalent cheese tactics, the inventory and equipment systems are even bigger jokes with leveled items and everything you ever pick up being junk. Fleshed out your ass you damn monkey, the Alchemy was dumbed down to incredibly stupid standards. The world leveling is a joke as well. The mechanics manage to make no sense from an immersion perspective as well, with your lvl 4 drowners & your lvl 20 drowners.. The quest and exp systems are broken as well, with 1 & 2 exp being rewarded for low level quests and your character going up 3 levels without ever participating in combat in the main story. You have got to be kidding me! Don't make me punch you through the screen you nutcrack! The game is so incredibly poorly balanced & poorly thought out that I have to wonder if the designer is genuinely retarded.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

You have got to be kidding me! Don't make me punch you through the screen you nutcrack! The game is so incredibly poorly balanced that I have to wonder if the designer is genuinely retarded.

I was comparing it to Disco Elysium, whose combat system happens to be... nonexistent.

 

[Dedicated_Dark]

I was comparing it to Disco Elysium, whose combat system happens to be... nonexistent.

Hmm.. you win on that front. Atleast Witcher 3 has the pretense of having gameplay I guess.. whereas Disco is Telltale made by & for non-retarded people.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Well, you are playing an adventure where the GM is expecting more investigation and less combat and is limiting the combat through plot setup and NPCs.

What do you do in a PnP game? You persist on trying to fight people your GM doesn't want you to - oh look, a general insurrection began in the neighbourhood and now you can't proceed with the investigation, what pity, game over. Or, you conform to the limitation and play along with the GM's plot. If you wanted an adventure with combat, then you need a different adventure.

I will point that even less combat is still combat. And unless the system employed is some ultrastoryhomo thing that has no space for combat, the scenario you propose is a stretch.

 

[jackofshadows]

You should check out that recent thread about dialogue systems for a more in-depth take on what I am about to say, but basically this is a non-issue for a game like TW3. The way in which roleplaying is done via dialogue in TW3 is not meant to shape your PC (as is the case in the ME trilogy, DA2 and PoE 1&2), but rather to reinforce the preexisting identity of Geralt. In other words, roleplay comes in as a means through which you decide upon Geralt's line of reasoning and the decision it ultimately results in. In that sense, the fact that the game doesn't 'care' doesn't amount to a schizophrenic portrayal since these choices aren't rooted in alignment. You yourself can be good to a person and bad to another in a matter of minutes.

I honestly admire CDPR's ability to offer a wide variety of possible consequences while they would still fit whithin Geralt's reasons. Problem is, the game doesn't change his "range of reasons" over the cource of itself. All exceptions I can think of are: the very possiblity of a romance with Triss (I mean, line of specific choices to make, otherwise doens't matter what you say at a crucial moment) and of course, the whole chain of choices with Ciri. But on a regular basis you're free to choose anything at a given moment. Well, outside of combat that is. It would be far-fetched to say "where game's focus actually lies" but I wish there was more "some choices are locking others" sort of thing or something else entirely in order to feel it in Geralt himself other than simple reflection on other characters and the end slides in general. While in DE, well, you don't need me to tell you that there it feels much more personal and it tied up to the skill system at the same time.

Eh, that player skill is still predicated upon the game's systems. The fact that it is action oriented doesn't invalidate the build choices you have, especially on higher difficulties.

I agree and I'm with the other people who are claiming that "the game meant to be played on the highest difficulty". Only there it much more sence to spend some time working on gear, learning which expendables one should use when etc instead of few more clicking along the way.

 

[AwesomeButton]

On the issue of inventory, you have plenty of more items that influence the (combat) gameplay (from concoctions to runes), you have a crafting system and the equipment itself is integrated within a character build, while items only affect skills in the case of DE (to which I'd also include the two health stats) rather than gameplay. And in DE your clothing doesn't shape a certain build, but rather the items serve as items of convenience to pass this or that skill check.

Yes, Yes, DE's usage of items is pretty simplistic, but TW3's combat in turn is too easy (on Normal) for 95% of the build and equipment choices to matter. I went through Witcher 3 on Normal with barely any use of the crafting system and blindly clicking at enemies for the first 1/3 of the game until I learned to use the horrendous console-inspired targeting system.

So we are comparing the lack of a system in one game with the forgiving superficial implementation where your choices don't change much if anything.

 

[Slaver1]

GOAT game especially if you put in a couple of essential mods to complete the experience.

• GHOST for combat. (Death March difficulty alongside that has a great leveling balance)
• STLM 2
• Erikas Opulent Reshade Preset
• Halk Hogans Textures
• Immersive Cam to zoom Geralts perspective in

 

[Danikas]

but TW3's combat in turn is too easy (on Normal) for 95% of the build and equipment choices to matter.

This is true for almost every game if you are playing on normal.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

That said I haven't even played Disco Elysium, but I assume you can RP and solve quests in various ways through dialogue choices.

that makes it an adventure game.

But what makes an RPG?

Exploration, combat, and character elements, of a particular sort.

Both exploration and combat are almost entirely absent from Disco Elysium, so it is at most a digital gamebook, i.e. a CYOA with some RPG elements (character customization/progression, inventory, equipment) added.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Well, now I know Eric Cartman was right about gingers....

 

[cretin]

GOAT game especially if you put in a couple of essential mods to complete the experience.

• GHOST for combat. (Death March difficulty alongside that has a great leveling balance)
• STLM 2
• Erikas Opulent Reshade Preset
• Halk Hogans Textures
• Immersive Cam to zoom Geralts perspective in

why not just enhanced edition and skip all that merging shit. GHOST doesnt fix witcher's popamole combat from what little i played of it.

 

[Slaver1]

GOAT game especially if you put in a couple of essential mods to complete the experience.

• GHOST for combat. (Death March difficulty alongside that has a great leveling balance)
• STLM 2
• Erikas Opulent Reshade Preset
• Halk Hogans Textures
• Immersive Cam to zoom Geralts perspective in

why not just enhanced edition and skip all that merging shit. GHOST doesnt fix witcher's popamole combat from what little i played of it.

It's very quick & easy to mod. Just drag and drop into a folder- even if you have to use the Script Merger. As for the combat, it might never be the games strong suit, but at least GHOST makes you think about how you're playing a bit.

 

[Danikas]

Total of copies sold:

TW3 sales in units

2015: ~9.471.830
2016: ~4.190.140
2017: ~4.401.408
2018: ~3.591.549
2019: ~6.619.718

Total: ~28.274.645

Bitcher 3 reaches Skyrim numbers.

 

[Ezeekiel]

It's that popular on ps4? Huh.

 

[RepHope]

Total of copies sold:

TW3 sales in units

2015: ~9.471.830
2016: ~4.190.140
2017: ~4.401.408
2018: ~3.591.549
2019: ~6.619.718

Total: ~28.274.645

Bitcher 3 reaches Skyrim numbers.

Jesus that’s impressive considering the first two combined didn’t even sell more than 10 million. I’m actually wondering what the top selling RPG games are outside of shit like Pokémon or the Mario spin offs.

 

[Danikas]

Jesus that’s impressive considering the first two combined didn’t even sell more than 10 million. I’m actually wondering what the top selling RPG games are outside of shit like Pokémon or the Mario spin offs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

Diablo 3, Skyrim and Witcher 3.

 

[RepHope]

Jesus that’s impressive considering the first two combined didn’t even sell more than 10 million. I’m actually wondering what the top selling RPG games are outside of shit like Pokémon or the Mario spin offs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

Diablo 3, Skyrim and Witcher 3.

Thanks wasn’t sure how up to date this was.

 

[Ezeekiel]

Jesus that’s impressive considering the first two combined didn’t even sell more than 10 million. I’m actually wondering what the top selling RPG games are outside of shit like Pokémon or the Mario spin offs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

Diablo 3, Skyrim and Witcher 3.

Thanks wasn’t sure how up to date this was.

It's missing like 8.2 million witcher 3 sales.

Diablo 3 also has the sales of the basegame and expansion added together according to the table... Not sure about Witcher 3.

 

[Rahdulan]

I just want to know how the hell Asia outsold North America.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I just want to know how the hell Asia outsold North America.