Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

[Gruncheon]

Interesting point. Looking at those names I can't help but think of (of all titles!) the red-headed stepchild that was Icewind Dale II:

JE Sawyer (lead!), plus Avellone and Maldonado AND Stephen Bokkes (VtMB + PST) AND John Deiley (PST).

It was a bizarrely mishapen game, an ungainly combination of 3E rules stuffed into an ageing 2E game engine and held together by twine and chewing gum. It was also so lovingly written and packed with memorable encounters and locales and with a wonderful slow-building heroic crescendo to its structure. Even today it's a game it'd still rather replay than POE or WL2.

Wow, the writing in that short snippet is very good. Is the rest of IWD2 as good as that? Is it worth a playthrough?

 

[Cyberarmy]

Is the rest of IWD2 as good as that? Is it worth a playthrough?

It has good parts but ıt has boring parts also. Worth a playthrough though imho. It has some good encounters.

 

[cvv]

Icewind Dale II: It was also so lovingly written and packed with memorable encounters and locales and with a wonderful slow-building heroic crescendo to its structure. Even today it's a game it'd still rather replay than POE or WL2.

IWD2 was one of the tiny handful of RPGs I've never finished. I faintly remember the appalling repetitive grind finally wore me out in the frozen wasteland, where you had to burn the mobs with fire. Due to my obsessiveness I usually feel compelled to finish even the most terrible games (I'm looking at you Dungeon Siege 3) but IWD2 was too stronk.

 

[Schizophrenic monolog]

Downloading on GOG...

Don't forget to install all the mods....

 

[Luckmann]

Interesting point. Looking at those names I can't help but think of (of all titles!) the red-headed stepchild that was Icewind Dale II:

JE Sawyer (lead!), plus Avellone and Maldonado AND Stephen Bokkes (VtMB + PST) AND John Deiley (PST).

It was a bizarrely mishapen game, an ungainly combination of 3E rules stuffed into an ageing 2E game engine and held together by twine and chewing gum. It was also so lovingly written and packed with memorable encounters and locales and with a wonderful slow-building heroic crescendo to its structure. Even today it's a game it'd still rather replay than POE or WL2.

Wow, the writing in that short snippet is very good. Is the rest of IWD2 as good as that? Is it worth a playthrough?

IWD2 varies, in my opinion, between a slog and amazing. I realize that the IWD games were always intended more as linear dungeon crawls, but I always lamented that they weren't narratively stronger, storyfag as I am. That being said, I always liked IWD2, for many different reasons, and yes, it's absolutely worth a playthrough.

I wonder why the fuck developers stopped doing those exposition-screens. I always loved the narrated dream sequences in Baldur's Gate 1 and the chapter narration in Icewind Dale 2, especially. It gives a sense of continuity and eerie storytelling, as if you're part of an unfolding story, a narrative being told within the context of a greater world, rather than just a free agent doing something because whatever. For example, I think that Pillars of Eternity could've really used these relatively simple screens to play up the fact that the player is supposedly going insane and how that is supposed to serve as a motivator, which promptly gets forgotten and muddled, leaving the player wondering why he's doing this shit, especially between Od Nua and getting an understanding of the Leaden Key.

After that it gets even more forgotten, but at least you sorta get a new motivation - but only sorta.

 

[Pirata Alma Negra]

P:T EE incoming, with MCA help of course.

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

P:T EE incoming, with MCA help of course.

don't forget Story mode! Ow and SJW!

 

[Chris Avelltwo]

Obsidian's Josh Sawyer misses having Chris Avellone around: "He's a machine"

Well, too late, asshole. You didn't let him design anything, and now you want him back to increase your pedigree using his work ethics as an excuse?

Or maybe, unlike what the Codex likes to believe, Sawyer had nothing to do with Avellone's departure and the two of them were never at war with each other.

But I guess, it's easier to believe that the Evil Overlord Sawyer intentionally robbed poor Chris of all the lead roles on their games and eventually drove him out of the company, even if he never had that kind of power since he was and is just an employee (albeit an important one), while Avellone was one of the co-founders and co-owners and therefore ranked higher on the hierarchy. That seems a very likely scenario, sure.

I think they both need one another. One is like the ying to the other's yang, and when they're together there is balance and harmony. But when they are ripped away from one another it leads to problems. I have no doubt T:ToN would have turned out a lot better if Sawyer had been involved and supervised the gameplay mechanics. That is where the game is really lacking. The writing itself is stellar, but writing in itself doesn't make a game.

Similarly, without Avellone's involvement, Deadfire might end up with the opposite problem of having great balanced gameplay but less than stellar writing. I think that's less of an issue, because gameplay is more important to a game than the writing, but nevertheless, I fear that Deadfire will feel like it is lacking something without Avellone's input. Durance was my favorite companion in POE, and of course he's out, and unless Avellone returns to Obsidian he may never appear again. Same goes for the Grieving Mother, and everything else Mr. Avellone wrote; not to mention the advice and supervision he gave to all the other writers, the lack of which will have an impact that will be difficult to measure, but when people play Deadfire they might sense something is missing and maybe not be able to put their finger on it... that missing something is Chris Avellone.

So these two men need one another. Josh Sawyer for the gameplay mechanics and balance; Chris Avellone for the writing. THEY are the real Pillars of Eternity. CRPG greatness rests collectively on their shoulders, but neither one of them can bear this burden alone - they need each other. So I hope and pray this feud between them will one day be healed and they will be reunited once more. Until that happens, their respective projects will be like hollowborn children - lacking in a crucial element which only the other could have provided.

That being said, it's a shame Mr. Sawyer has his hands full atm with Deadfire, because he is just the man inXile could use to clean up Colin McComb's mess, and bring balance to the Tides.

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

Obsidian's Josh Sawyer misses having Chris Avellone around: "He's a machine"

Well, too late, asshole. You didn't let him design anything, and now you want him back to increase your pedigree using his work ethics as an excuse?

Or maybe, unlike what the Codex likes to believe, Sawyer had nothing to do with Avellone's departure and the two of them were never at war with each other.

But I guess, it's easier to believe that the Evil Overlord Sawyer intentionally robbed poor Chris of all the lead roles on their games and eventually drove him out of the company, even if he never had that kind of power since he was and is just an employee (albeit an important one), while Avellone was one of the co-founders and co-owners and therefore ranked higher on the hierarchy. That seems a very likely scenario, sure.

I think they both need one another. One is like the ying to the other's yang, and when they're together there is balance and harmony. But when they are ripped away from one another it leads to problems. I have no doubt T:ToN would have turned out a lot better if Sawyer had been involved and supervised the gameplay mechanics. That is where the game is really lacking. The writing itself is stellar, but writing in itself doesn't make a game.

Similarly, without Avellone's involvement, Deadfire might end up with the opposite problem of having great balanced gameplay but less than stellar writing. I think that's less of an issue, because gameplay is more important to a game than the writing, but nevertheless, I fear that Deadfire will feel like it is lacking something without Avellone's input. Durance was my favorite companion in POE, and of course he's out, and unless Avellone returns to Obsidian he may never appear again. Same goes for the Grieving Mother, and everything else Mr. Avellone wrote; not to mention the advice and supervision he gave to all the other writers, the lack of which will have an impact that will be difficult to measure, but when people play Deadfire they might sense something is missing and maybe not be able to put their finger on it... that missing something is Chris Avellone.

So these two men need one another. Josh Sawyer for the gameplay mechanics and balance; Chris Avellone for the writing. THEY are the real Pillars of Eternity. CRPG greatness rests collectively on their shoulders, but neither one of them can bear this burden alone - they need each other. So I hope and pray this feud between them will one day be healed and they will be reunited once more. Until that happens, their respective projects will be like hollowborn children - lacking in a crucial element which only the other could have provided.

That being said, it's a shame Mr. Sawyer has his hands full atm with Deadfire, because he is just the man inXile could use to clean up Colin McComb's mess, and bring balance to the Tides.

Finally someone who liked Durance, tried to write that on Steam and everyone called me crazy because I only liked Durance and Grieving Mother.

 

[Gruncheon]

I think they both need one another. One is like the ying to the other's yang, and when they're together there is balance and harmony. But when they are ripped away from one another it leads to problems. I have no doubt T:ToN would have turned out a lot better if Sawyer had been involved and supervised the gameplay mechanics. That is where the game is really lacking. The writing itself is stellar, but writing in itself doesn't make a game.

Similarly, without Avellone's involvement, Deadfire might end up with the opposite problem of having great balanced gameplay but less than stellar writing. I think that's less of an issue, because gameplay is more important to a game than the writing, but nevertheless, I fear that Deadfire will feel like it is lacking something without Avellone's input. Durance was my favorite companion in POE, and of course he's out, and unless Avellone returns to Obsidian he may never appear again. Same goes for the Grieving Mother, and everything else Mr. Avellone wrote; not to mention the advice and supervision he gave to all the other writers, the lack of which will have an impact that will be difficult to measure, but when people play Deadfire they might sense something is missing and maybe not be able to put their finger on it... that missing something is Chris Avellone.

I think your assessment of PoE combat as being "great balanced gameplay" might be the first time those adjectives have been deployed together sincerely on the Codex.

 

[Harry Easter]

That being said, it's a shame Mr. Sawyer has his hands full atm with Deadfire, because he is just the man inXile could use to clean up Colin McComb's mess, and bring balance to the Tides.

Not a bad point, especially since Numenera feels like it lacks a lot of focus. I am finally playing through Wasteland 2 and it is a very different experience, than Numenera. It kust knows what it wants to be (Fallout 2 with modern graphics and a cowboy-theme) and I like the story more, because there is a lot more happening AND my group drives the plot, while I am only a traveller in Numenera.

 

[Stokowski]

IWD2 was one of the tiny handful of RPGs I've never finished. I faintly remember the appalling repetitive grind finally wore me out in the frozen wasteland, where you had to burn the mobs with fire. Due to my obsessiveness I usually feel compelled to finish even the most terrible games (I'm looking at you Dungeon Siege 3) but IWD2 was too stronk.

The Ice Temple and the Time Loop were areas that really stretched your patience. Especially with lovely old Infinity Engine pathfinding quirks doing their best to drain your will to live.

 

[Stokowski]

I think your assessment of PoE combat as being "great balanced gameplay" might be the first time those adjectives have been deployed together sincerely on the Codex.

But ... just what is an RPG adjective?

 

[Luckmann]

[...]

Finally someone who liked Durance, tried to write that on Steam and everyone called me crazy because I only liked Durance and Grieving Mother.

Durance is probably the most contentious character, with people either really liking him or really hating him if they're sensitive little fuckwads that can't appreciate a good character unless it conforms with their world-view. Durance is amazing, and I'm not just saying that because he's an abrasive shitlord.

 

[Surf Solar]

Think I've done everything possible in Sagus cliffs except for that stupid lazaret quest which i think I'll simply skip.

Is there a way to get into the Council building or is it just for show? What's with the 'bridge' on northeastern part of sagus cliffs where that ghost posessed girl stands, is that just scenery? And finally, is there a way to reach the area behind/down from the rogue Stichus at the bottom of the cliffs?

 

[FeelTheRads]

You can just run and turn off those drones. Don't bother trying to kill them.

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

Think I've done everything possible in Sagus cliffs except for that stupid lazaret quest which i think I'll simply skip.

Is there a way to get into the Council building or is it just for show? What's with the 'bridge' on northeastern part of sagus cliffs where that ghost posessed girl stands, is that just scenery? And finally, is there a way to reach the area behind/down from the rogue Stichus at the bottom of the cliffs?

that's cut content right there. I was also wandering, but I think you can't do shit with that bridge
In my sanely mind I thought, maybe I will come back later to open that door, but no...

 

[Belegarsson]

You can ask the stichus in Underbelly to bring you there for 10 shins.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

These on the other hand, you would have a very hard time remembering their names.

Actually, no.

 

[cvv]

You can just run and turn off those drones. Don't bother trying to kill them.

This. What a stupid fight. Such fun fighting mobs with 80% evasion.

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

Journey to Earth one billion years into the future to find there Tybir is gay and the only love quest in the game is that of 2 males.
That and a huge sphincter.

Why they didn't include that in that propaganda chart?

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

You can ask the stichus in Underbelly to bring you there for 10 shins.

but you can't go to the other side of the bridge right?

 

[Prime Junta]

Not for the whole game at least, but it's worth it going thief for a bit.

Yep by all means switch to a thief when you need it. It's just that DEX is kind of the least useful attribute and if on top of that you dump WIS, INT and CHA you're kind of fucked from the start. Speccing for wizard or fighter with occasional trips into thief-land is all good fun.

(Don't dump WIS though.)

 

[Prime Junta]

Is there a way to get into the Council building or is it just for show? What's with the 'bridge' on northeastern part of sagus cliffs where that ghost posessed girl stands, is that just scenery? And finally, is there a way to reach the area behind/down from the rogue Stichus at the bottom of the cliffs?

(1) no (2) not sure about that one, I think it is possible to get on the other side somehow but don't remember how, didn't do it this time around, (3) yes

 

[FeelTheRads]

Not for the whole game at least, but it's worth it going thief for a bit.

Yep by all means switch to a thief when you need it. It's just that DEX is kind of the least useful attribute and if on top of that you dump WIS, INT and CHA you're kind of fucked from the start. Speccing for wizard or fighter with occasional trips into thief-land is all good fun.

(Don't dump WIS though.)

Well, I mean for the specific content which there isn't much, but it's worth it for the interactions with Annah where you actually get to teach her some thieving stuff.