Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Blaine]

I believe light armored characters need to invest extra to justify being so effective. Tbh i dont mind and i play as one.

You must not have played as a heavily-armored commando yet. Rest assured, they are just as effective, if not more so in some cases. Similarly, I'm playing pure psi now and have no need for either armor or Evasion/Dodge (although, pure psi uses three offensive skills, so there's some balance there) while nerve stapling an entire base full of miscreants, often without even taking a single hit.

Fuck off with that, crafting is perfect in this game.

No, you fuck off. The crafting system is great, yes. It's nuanced, complex, and versatile, many blueprints are highly modular, etc., but an energy shield 5x better than anything you can buy or loot is fucking absurd.

Evasion and Dodge should be rolled into one skill, or given immense synergy percentages. There, I said it. Fuck you.

No, fuck you. they are clearly diffferent skills, the heavy investment to make a character that doesnt rely on heavy armor has effective defenses is both coherent and flavorful. Why would people bother carrying armor if just not being where the bulllet/point stick was easier?
This is coming from someone that spent 150 hours playing as a lightly armored melee character.

No, fuck you. This is coming from someone who spent 100+ hours playing a lightly armored crossbow character, AND 100+ hours playing a heavily-armored melee character, AND 100+ hours playing a pure psi character. Again, heavy armor guys can rape enemies and weather punishment just as effectively as squirrelly, faggy little hiding cowards.

Nope, i think social skills should disappear, or have combat applications only.

Go fuck yourself.

 

[Lhynn]

You must not have played as a heavily-armored commando yet. Rest assured, they are just as effective, if not more so in some cases. Similarly, I'm playing pure psi now and have no need for either armor or Evasion/Dodge (although, pure psi uses three offensive skills, so there's some balance there) while nerve stapling an entire base full of miscreants, often without even taking a single hit.

That isnt hard, i cleared fort apogee without taking a hit.

No, you fuck off. The crafting system is great, yes. It's nuanced, complex, and versatile, many blueprints are highly modular, etc., but an energy shield 5x better than anything you can buy or loot is fucking absurd.

That isnt a problem with the crafting system.

No, fuck you. This is coming from someone who spent 100+ hours playing a lightly armored crossbow character, AND 100+ hours playing a heavily-armored melee character, AND 100+ hours playing a pure psi character. Again, heavy armor guys can rape enemies and weather punishment just as effectively as squirrelly, faggy little hiding cowards.

How is that of any relevance?

Go fuck yourself.

No u, social skills always felt like retarded arbitrary shit in this game. They should be escorted outside and fucking shot, because they serve absolutely no purpose.

 

[Durandal]

There's so little Persuasion and Intimidation options in the dialogue compared to other cRPG's that aren't as dungeon crawler-ish like Underrail where you are constantly in some combat situation, that Styg could've just as well turned Persuasion and Intimidation into a feat.

 

[NotAGolfer]

Heavy Armor/Sledgehammer really is becoming insufferable.
You got two attacks at the most, (not counting Adrenaline) one which will always miss despite having 95% to-hit. That is, if you can even get to your target.
As if being naturally slow as fuck isn't enough, EVERYONE has a slow. Freeze, Knee-cap,Tackles, Stuns into Daze etc. Then there's nets. Due to low evasion these always land, and you cant do shit about it. Crossbowers like to chain these on you indefinitely.
And the worst offender of all, Crippling Strike. No other ability counters a build so hard. Even if there was an ability that lowered dexterity or perception you'd still be able to atleast move. Not so with Strength, since wearing the heaviest armor and wielding the heaviest weapon already has you on the brink of encumbrance. And not only does it govern your to-hit, but also your weapon
prerequisite, so you're now wielding a weapon you don't have the stats for which lowers to-hit even further. One Crippling Strike and I'm down to 10% to-hit.
All of which would be inconsequential if you had a rifle or psi powers. The game clearly hates this build...

I'm playing a heavy armored sledgehammer wielding guy with no evasion and dodge atm.
Don't have the problems you mention, except maybe for the one with crippling strike. But then again I picked pack rathound as a feat so I don't get encumbered so easily. And if an enemy uses that ability then I simply stun him or kill him first or entangle him with a net and move a bit away at the end of each turn. There are many tricks in the book.
I also use combat gloves and grenades to get rid of the trash mobs, sledgehammer alone would indeed suck.

 

[Blaine]

How is that of any relevance?

I don't give a shit if it's "coherent and flavorful." That justification could be used to defend any number of inadvisable game mechanics. They are an unwarranted drain on the skill point pools of certain types of characters.

 

[Blackmill]

Are there any vendors in the Deep Caverns? Particularly ones selling Ampules and Jackhammers (or something else to break walls). I entered low on supplies and with no way to access all those walled off areas.

 

[Mystary!]

Heavy Armor/Sledgehammer really is becoming insufferable.
You got two attacks at the most, (not counting Adrenaline) one which will always miss despite having 95% to-hit. That is, if you can even get to your target.
As if being naturally slow as fuck isn't enough, EVERYONE has a slow. Freeze, Knee-cap,Tackles, Stuns into Daze etc. Then there's nets. Due to low evasion these always land, and you cant do shit about it. Crossbowers like to chain these on you indefinitely.
And the worst offender of all, Crippling Strike. No other ability counters a build so hard. Even if there was an ability that lowered dexterity or perception you'd still be able to atleast move. Not so with Strength, since wearing the heaviest armor and wielding the heaviest weapon already has you on the brink of encumbrance. And not only does it govern your to-hit, but also your weapon
prerequisite, so you're now wielding a weapon you don't have the stats for which lowers to-hit even further. One Crippling Strike and I'm down to 10% to-hit.
All of which would be inconsequential if you had a rifle or psi powers. The game clearly hates this build...

I'm playing a heavy armored sledgehammer wielding guy with no evasion and dodge atm.
Don't have the problems you mention, except maybe for the one with crippling strike. But then again I picked pack rathound as a feat so I don't get encumbered so easily. And if an enemy uses that ability then I simply stun him or kill him first or entangle him with a net and move a bit away at the end of each turn. There are many tricks in the book.
I also use combat gloves and grenades to get rid of the trash mobs, sledgehammer alone would indeed suck.

But you appear to have psi powers so you atleast have ranged options. If I get netted/rooted/slowed the only thing I can do is toss a grenade or two.

 

[Zetor]

Are there any vendors in the Deep Caverns? Particularly ones selling Ampules and Jackhammers (or something else to break walls). I entered low on supplies and with no way to access all those walled off areas.

If you look around the warehouse area, you may find something to help you with the wall-breaking problem.

 

[Zetor]

Heavy Armor/Sledgehammer really is becoming insufferable.
You got two attacks at the most, (not counting Adrenaline) one which will always miss despite having 95% to-hit. That is, if you can even get to your target.
As if being naturally slow as fuck isn't enough, EVERYONE has a slow. Freeze, Knee-cap,Tackles, Stuns into Daze etc. Then there's nets. Due to low evasion these always land, and you cant do shit about it. Crossbowers like to chain these on you indefinitely.
And the worst offender of all, Crippling Strike. No other ability counters a build so hard. Even if there was an ability that lowered dexterity or perception you'd still be able to atleast move. Not so with Strength, since wearing the heaviest armor and wielding the heaviest weapon already has you on the brink of encumbrance. And not only does it govern your to-hit, but also your weapon
prerequisite, so you're now wielding a weapon you don't have the stats for which lowers to-hit even further. One Crippling Strike and I'm down to 10% to-hit.
All of which would be inconsequential if you had a rifle or psi powers. The game clearly hates this build...

I'm playing a heavy armored sledgehammer wielding guy with no evasion and dodge atm.
Don't have the problems you mention, except maybe for the one with crippling strike. But then again I picked pack rathound as a feat so I don't get encumbered so easily. And if an enemy uses that ability then I simply stun him or kill him first or entangle him with a net and move a bit away at the end of each turn. There are many tricks in the book.
I also use combat gloves and grenades to get rid of the trash mobs, sledgehammer alone would indeed suck.

But you appear to have psi powers so you atleast have ranged options. If I get netted/rooted/slowed the only thing I can do is toss a grenade or two.

Do you have enough dex for the Escape Artist feat? Otherwise, if you're a tailor, you can make infused siphoner boots to make you immune to immobilization.

 

[Lhynn]

How is that of any relevance?

I don't give a shit if it's "coherent and flavorful." That justification could be used to defend any number of inadvisable game mechanics. They are an unwarranted drain on the skill point pools of certain types of characters.

They are still powerful characters with that drain in their skill point pool, and its a perfectly acceptable drain, plus tons of builds only invest in one of the two because they dont plan on finding themselves in situations were they need the other. Why dont you just ask for more skillpoints to play with? at the end of the day its what you are asking for anyway "crafting skills too good, i dont want to invest in them, dodge/evasion need to be merged i dont want to invest on them".
Also you yourself defend other mechanics because its flavorful and feels "right", like the merchants or the lack of map.

 

[epeli]

There's so little Persuasion and Intimidation options in the dialogue compared to other cRPG's that aren't as dungeon crawler-ish like Underrail where you are constantly in some combat situation, that Styg could've just as well turned Persuasion and Intimidation into a feat.

Mhm. I can't help but wonder how Underrail would feel if it had more social skill checks. I heard the first drafts of some towns had tons more, but Styg made the writer cut them down during their internal testing. So the way things are is a deliberate design decision.

 

[Blaine]

But you appear to have psi powers so you atleast have ranged options. If I get netted/rooted/slowed the only thing I can do is toss a grenade or two.

I played heavy armor/sledgehammer/throwing guy in Early Access too for around 100 hours and considered it my easiest playthrough... until I tried full psi branched into stealth (yet, shadowpsi doesn't have the defense and endurance to steadily cull heavily populated screens, say the top floor of of Coretech; heavy hammer guy does).

Spoiler

git gud skrub

Crippling Strike is the Achille's heel of sledgehammer whompers, yes. You can find me bemoaning it as well over a year ago in the original Early Access thread.

 

[Tigranes]

It's kind of weird - I don't think they should be cut out completely, because they synergise well with stealth and oddities. Underrail is almost entirely about combat, but at the same time it is not a game about running in and shooting everybody in the face, not unless you want to. So having per/int ways out of sticky situations I feel works with the game.

At the same time, the skills are never really worthwhile to take - I took Persuasion on a lark this time and the few times you use it really is nowhere near a decent payoff. Yet if there were more such checks, it wouldn't really add to the gameplay - I don't think Underrail would be particularly enjoyable as a classic 'talker' who tries to avoid most fights.

Per/Int as perks would have been an interesting solution, actually, maybe with Will/Int and Will/Str as prerequisites, respectively.

Blaine am considering full psi, any quality of life tips?

 

[Mystary!]

Siphoner boots

Heavy Armor/Sledgehammer really is becoming insufferable.
You got two attacks at the most, (not counting Adrenaline) one which will always miss despite having 95% to-hit. That is, if you can even get to your target.
As if being naturally slow as fuck isn't enough, EVERYONE has a slow. Freeze, Knee-cap,Tackles, Stuns into Daze etc. Then there's nets. Due to low evasion these always land, and you cant do shit about it. Crossbowers like to chain these on you indefinitely.
And the worst offender of all, Crippling Strike. No other ability counters a build so hard. Even if there was an ability that lowered dexterity or perception you'd still be able to atleast move. Not so with Strength, since wearing the heaviest armor and wielding the heaviest weapon already has you on the brink of encumbrance. And not only does it govern your to-hit, but also your weapon
prerequisite, so you're now wielding a weapon you don't have the stats for which lowers to-hit even further. One Crippling Strike and I'm down to 10% to-hit.
All of which would be inconsequential if you had a rifle or psi powers. The game clearly hates this build...

I'm playing a heavy armored sledgehammer wielding guy with no evasion and dodge atm.
Don't have the problems you mention, except maybe for the one with crippling strike. But then again I picked pack rathound as a feat so I don't get encumbered so easily. And if an enemy uses that ability then I simply stun him or kill him first or entangle him with a net and move a bit away at the end of each turn. There are many tricks in the book.
I also use combat gloves and grenades to get rid of the trash mobs, sledgehammer alone would indeed suck.

But you appear to have psi powers so you atleast have ranged options. If I get netted/rooted/slowed the only thing I can do is toss a grenade or two.

Do you have enough dex for the Escape Artist feat? Otherwise, if you're a tailor, you can make infused siphoner boots to make you immune to immobilization.

No dex. But I wish I had known about those boots like 50 hours ago...

 

[Lhynn]

There's so little Persuasion and Intimidation options in the dialogue compared to other cRPG's that aren't as dungeon crawler-ish like Underrail where you are constantly in some combat situation, that Styg could've just as well turned Persuasion and Intimidation into a feat.

Mhm. I can't help but wonder how Underrail would feel if it had more social skill checks. I heard the first drafts of some towns had tons more, but Styg made the writer cut them down during their internal testing. So the way things are is a deliberate design decision.

Would feel like shit. A reptutation mechanic + the quality of your armor and weapon would work very well for intimidate. As for persuade, just use the personality of the character you are talking to as a baseline, and give the player options to answer to them based on it, some things you can say he will like and share with you, others will not, you know, make dialogue actually feel more like dialogue. It would encourage players to actually read, which is never a bad thing.

Or maybe make them stat checks, as Tigranes pointed out, i liked the Str/Will/Agi checks trough the game, rare as they were.

 

[Goral]

Are there any vendors in the Deep Caverns? Particularly ones selling Ampules and Jackhammers (or something else to break walls). I entered low on supplies and with no way to access all those walled off areas.

There is a jackhammer in one place (won't tell you where though) and there are at least 10 TNT charges on shelves if you go past Faceless.

 

[Blaine]

Part of the problem with Persuasion is that there are sometimes ways to circumvent it entirely.

For example, you can use Persuade to convince Gorsky to give you the GMS Compound keycard; or you can tattle on him to the science teacher like a nerdy little homo and coerce him into giving you the card, no Persuasion required.

 

[Nines]

There's so little Persuasion and Intimidation options in the dialogue compared to other cRPG's that aren't as dungeon crawler-ish like Underrail where you are constantly in some combat situation, that Styg could've just as well turned Persuasion and Intimidation into a feat.

Probably the best solution, that is, if Styg will want to do some kind of Enhanced Edition. Considering that Mercantile is the most useless skill in the game, it should be also combined with Salesman.

For example, you can use Persuade to convince Gorsky to give you the GMS Compound keycard; or you can tattle on him to the science teacher and coerce him into giving you the card like a nerdy little homo, no Persuasion required.

You can just talk with Gorsky later. He will, of course, tell you that he will kill you if something will happen, but gives you they key anyway.

 

[Tigranes]

Oh? When I found Gorsky in Core City he told me he lost the key.

 

[epeli]

you know, make dialogue actually feel more like dialogue. It would encourage players to actually read, which is never a bad thing.

That is easy to achieve, simply hide the meta [skillcheck] tags from player's replies.

 

[hell bovine]

And they've said perfect murder doesn't exist...

Spoiler

 

[Nines]

Oh? When I found Gorsky in Core City he told me he lost the key.

Styg was lazy enough and didn't implement key chain, so that's not surprising. Also, I assume Gorsky has like 3 points in Intelligence.

 

[bati]

And they've said perfect murder doesn't exist...

Spoiler

Goggles on the portrait are a nice touch :mrpresident:.

In other news, http://steamspy.com/app/250520 .

Seriously, what the fuck. Even if we assume +-2k that means ~5k people refunded the game .

 

[Blaine]

They went back to Fallout 4 where they belong.

If we include GOG, Underrail may already be at around 40,000 copies sold (or may be eventually), which frankly far exceeds what I expected. Taking into account Steam's/GOG's cut and cheaper early access copies, Styg must have pulled in something like $250,000+ for his share (not sure what his assistant developers' shares may be).

Serbia's cost of living is approximately half the cost of living the US, so I assume that's a very livable amount of money.

 

[bati]

Half? As far as I know people in Serbia get ~400-500€ (after tax) per month on average and somehow manage to live with that. In any case, I hope he got enough to seriously consider UnderRail 2 or another game with similar mechanics. Best fucking game I've played in years (I reserve the right to pull this comment once I actually experience Deep Caverns - at the rate I'm rerolling, sometime in the next decade).

Also, I just got Shock Bullets recipe - no thanks to you, Blaine. Step up your shop game, even SGS traders are better stocked. Smgs are crazy fun, I've settled on a 5mm Smart Rapid Jaguar for the midgame (currently level 20) because I get 5 (!!) bursts per turn with 12 dex (got 13 but apparently it only lowers AP on even numbers).