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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
When I tried that one a few months ago it didn't click for me, though my current dex build is basically a derivative of it. I think I like the 7 STR cushion compared to maxxing out AGI even though the latter may be superior.

With a Sword... even at 5% for the first flurry to miss, the first flurry is going to miss several dozens of times throughout the game. Unless you wish to go on a reload tour, you basically have to approach all encounters as if the first flurry misses. OK, let's say it misses, then what? At this point you don't have enough to kill them with a sword in this round. @Tigranes gave his solutions, and he is not totally impressed with the safety of his build. The situation is very different to the one with knives.

Swordboy wasn't great for the native invasion fight, though I don't see that as some damning indictment of the whole build - that comes with the territory for a lot of different builds. (In terms of actual play experience, I wonder how often a sniper build reloads after a miss vs a flurry build, and if the flurrier reloads more, by how much?) But certainly knives and fists have more versatility - as I said, knives were the versatility fallback for my swordboy.
 

CHEMS

Scholar
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
1,694
When I tried that one a few months ago it didn't click for me, though my current dex build is basically a derivative of it. I think I like the 7 STR cushion compared to maxxing out AGI even though the latter may be superior.

With a Sword... even at 5% for the first flurry to miss, the first flurry is going to miss several dozens of times throughout the game. Unless you wish to go on a reload tour, you basically have to approach all encounters as if the first flurry misses. OK, let's say it misses, then what? At this point you don't have enough to kill them with a sword in this round. @Tigranes gave his solutions, and he is not totally impressed with the safety of his build. The situation is very different to the one with knives.

Swordboy wasn't great for the native invasion fight, though I don't see that as some damning indictment of the whole build - that comes with the territory for a lot of different builds. (In terms of actual play experience, I wonder how often a sniper build reloads after a miss vs a flurry build, and if the flurrier reloads more, by how much?) But certainly knives and fists have more versatility - as I said, knives were the versatility fallback for my swordboy.
A lot of reloads, a lot. Never finished with a sniper too. Missing one shooting spree is a insta-reload. I think you can make things better with flurry if you invest in throwing for nets and stingballs, you'll already have eletronics for the shock swords so there's a taser... Throwing Knives with crawler poison too. Maybe you can use the wicked hook to cut throat on the go, too. Might give it a try.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Sniper builds are obviously not my favorites for similar reasons (and I only played them in my early days), but at least they have a couple of advantages as compared to swords. First, they don't have to be close to the enemies whenever they fail. And, as far as I remember, there is nothing stopping them from being seriously tanky.
 

CHEMS

Scholar
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
1,694
Since we're talking about swords, maybe i'll try a build. I'm curious about the Claymore, which gives you sweep hability and then there's the chainsword, that finally let you use a chainsaw in the game. They're both sound good weapons. Also, the wiki says that the Glaive Lurker coats his weapon with poison. Can you actually do that with swords and spears now?
 

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
Iam trying this again and plan to hopefully finish this time. I started as a hammer wielding guy and worked my way until depot a, evrything went more or less fine and if it didnt I started throwing grenades around. I noticed a few things I didnt like and want to change so I have to ask for advice again. I want to make use of persuasion and intimidation and that probably means having high willpower. I also want to try a stealth build so i thought maybe a pure psi stealth character?

I could also go for any other weapon as long as I get what I want with stealth and the two mentioned skills. I am unsure how to put my stat points, is it correct that the stats only serve as tresholds for the feats? I what exactly the game expects of me aside from the fact that it isnt friendly to people that skill to much at once. I dont need a full min maxed build but a few pointers what works would be great. I will be playing on normal again.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
13,164
its also why I enjoyed pairing knives with lazor guns. Awesome experience of just picking melee/ranged depending on combat needs, in many situations you didnt even have to plan.
Spend half of AP in melee > looks dicey, might not finish all enemies > retreat > spend rest of AP pew pew
Spend half of AP in melee > front line of enemies down > not enough movement to get in range to enemy snipers > pew pew > break los/retreat
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
is it correct that the stats only serve as tresholds for the feats?

That's a big part of what stats do, but there is more to them. For example, there are direct stat checks in the game. Eg, if you have PER 8, you can see a door that you wouldn't see otherwise, if you have AG Y, you can jump over a specific river, STR allows you to wield certain weapons and wear certain armors, DEX reduces the AP cost of light weapons like pistols, fists, knives etc.

But another very important aspect of ability stats is that each stat helps specific skills. For example, AG helps Stealth, Dodge, Evasion. So when you invest 10 skill points in Stealth, your effective Stealth (ie, the 2nd column on the skills screen) is greater when your AG is greater. This is very important for your weapon of choice as well: PER helps Guns skill, DEX helps Throwing, certain guns, and certain melee weapons, Will helps Psi etc. Sledgehammers, for instance, benefit from STR.

It is a lot to take in, and I think the best way to go about it is to see in action in your playthrough. But I suggest you make sure the stats and skill that affect your main weapon are attended to. This is the most important bit.

I what exactly the game expects of me aside from the fact that it isnt friendly to people that skill to much at once. I dont need a full min maxed build but a few pointers what works would be great.

Well, one way to go about it is to pick a decent build from the web and see how it goes. In my view, new players should pick something simple, not something too elaborate. I generally suggest stealthy SMG for early runs (it supports a commando playing style: get in, grenade, finish them off with SMG), but not everyone is going to like the same thing.

But if you want to do it yourself, then try to come up with something and post it here for feedback. It may be hilariously wrong, but that's OK, you are going to learn by the answers. Like I said, make sure the main stats and skills that affect your main weapon are attended to.

As for the other skills, you have several ways to go about it.
A) You are going to be getting 40 skill points/level after level 1, and you can invest 5 skill points/level in any skill (again, after level 1). So pick 8 skills you want to care about, and max them every level. This is not necessarily optimal, but it is a decent way to start.

B) Choose some skills you care about and invest just enough so that the effective skill increases 5 points per level. How much you need to invest for this to happen depends on your ability stats. Exception: Always max the skill that affect your main weapon. This is generally a decent way to think of what is expected of you regarding skill investment, even if it is not always optimal. The game *generally* expects your attended skills to increase by 5/level in terms of effective skill, and it also expects your main weapon skill to always be maxed.
 
Last edited:

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Iam trying this again and plan to hopefully finish this time. I started as a hammer wielding guy and worked my way until depot a, evrything went more or less fine and if it didnt I started throwing grenades around. I noticed a few things I didnt like and want to change so I have to ask for advice again. I want to make use of persuasion and intimidation and that probably means having high willpower. I also want to try a stealth build so i thought maybe a pure psi stealth character?

I could also go for any other weapon as long as I get what I want with stealth and the two mentioned skills. I am unsure how to put my stat points, is it correct that the stats only serve as tresholds for the feats? I what exactly the game expects of me aside from the fact that it isnt friendly to people that skill to much at once. I dont need a full min maxed build but a few pointers what works would be great. I will be playing on normal again.

I think the most straightforward way is to pick one or two defining traits, and then work downstream from there, instead of trying to do 5 things at once or consider every variable.

E.g. "I want to be a stealthy psi guy" is pretty clear. You're a mage. So you probably want 10 WILL or at least very high. You're stealthy and probably not really a tank. So CON isn't a big deal for now. We can see from chargen that we should use high WILL + SPs to pump our psi skills; at that point we can also look around feats (use Underrail.info/build) and see what kind of offensive feats would shape our main weapon. Again, we would want to stay focused: e.g. if Thought Control is our big deal, then we find cool feats like Locus of Control. Downstream from all that, we would make other decisions - e.g. STR and PER don't seem to do much for our cave wizard.

Persuasion & Intimidate aren't really that extensive in Underrail. Take them if you like, no problem on Normal, but no big deal if you skip them. If you look at how many SPs you get per level and divide that by 5, you can sort of see how many skills you're meant to pump - can't really max 10 different skills. Psi wizard would constantly max their key psi skills as that's their weapon skill, probably max stealth for a while given that's what you want to focus on. Then you're choosing from utility skills like Hacking, Lockpicking, crafting, Mercantile.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Looks cool. PER 4 ain't gonna do much for you - it's kind of like going 7 CHA instead of 6 in D&D or something. You don't need to aim guns and you ain't detecting anything at 3 or 4.

Doctor and Pack Rathound are QOL feats. Nothing wrong with that, but you should lock in the big "this is how this character kills shit / survives" feats first and then see what room you've got left. Otherwise it's like packing your gum before you've packed the meat and water.
 

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
The question now would be where to put that 1 point, seems like intelligence would be good a bit extra in skills.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Yeah, that's a promising start.
So you are going Psi, you have got WILL which is the main stat, you have got INT which is the psi secondary stat (and also helps with crafting), and you also have AG for Stealth and some feats it will allow you to take. That's pretty decent.

PE 4 is not going to do much for you, like Tigranes also said, so take that away and put it somewhere else. INT is an obvious choice, although there are many different things you can do.

Sprint is a very strong feat. You are allowed to take it, because you have AG. You might want to replace Doctor with it. Doctor won't turn out to be that helpful here.

ADVANCED:
I see your main weapons are going to be Thought Control and Metathermics. Thought Control is a lot of fun, but it doesn't work on robots. Psychokinesis is great for robots. Personally, I would go Thought Control/Psychokinesis (instead of Metathermics), but others love Metathermics. I haven't played Metathermics in a long time, so I don't know. Get opinions on how this is going to work against robots.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Also, Chemistry... I don't love it. I 'd probably try to increase Mechanics and Tailoring instead. Crafting is a huge investment as you can see (but it is helped by your INT), so you can try to increase Mechanics, Electronics, Bio, Tailoring slowly. Chemistry is probably going to be the least important for you.
 

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
also I noticed bonuses to skills dont stack? I have 44 lockpick an MK2 which gives me +5 and equipped a jackknife which should give me another 7 thats 56 in total but I cant open a 55 lock.

I am an idiot. Seems like only Mainhand weapon counts
 

CHEMS

Scholar
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
1,694
Sword really isn't very different from dagger/fist/hammer melee, if you run out of AP in the open you're toast. Play very similarly too.

Less clicking though.
Not on early game, if you count electro ones. More stabby, more shocking, more damage. Also i think it's better for fancy footwork, no? Does flurry gives me 3 MP bonus, assuming all land, or i get only one?
 

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
Tried the new build and instantly went back to hammering. I cant do it again, run away shoot one or 2 cold spells run again have no hp etc. Now me and my trusty hammer, which is new because I build a spiked one, running through depot A and fucking up filthy mutants, no fancy skills no special tactics, just walk through everything, toss grenades if there are to many, and hammer whatevers still standing afterwards. Although I just tossed a grenade beside an exploding barrel for double the boom if that counts as tactic and I also use sprint from time to time since I am not very fast.

I also saw that you can get a spell in metathermics that makes the earth you walk burn, it would be awesome if I could combine my hammering with some righteous burning but I dont think thats in the cards with the mechanics as they are. I have a lot of fun but I think I am to old and lazy for all that fancy char building min maxing and tacticing around.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
normie, what is your intention with Survival Insticts? This and Recklessness look a bit out of place for me (especially the latter).
 

CHEMS

Scholar
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
1,694
Using SI and Reckless for just opportunity seems like a waste of feat to me. I get those to build around them. But in the late game you'll feel confortable running around with 29% HP, so i guess it's ok. Really worth it thinking about crits with a hammer? If you go full STR with them, a regular hit will already kill most things in one hit.

Also styg cucked Balors Hammer. Can't pummel with it for free anymore.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
The problem with Recklessness is that you are a tank and are going to be getting hit a lot, so the 3% increase of you getting critted will probably suck. I would never take Recklessness for tanks, tbh.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Critical power only affects a couple of the unique sledgehammers (the ones with crit damage bonus >100%). If you are planning to use those then OK. Otherwise it won't do anything.

I would consider taking Thermodynamicity (depending on how you want to use Metathermics) or Quick Pockets instead. (The lifting belt only has 2 utility slots, and you will probably appreciate one more slot.)
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
Patron
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,241
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Just completed the Gray Army quest. Poor lunch lady :negative:

Great quest, I regret not doing it on my first playthrough. At what level do people usually tackle this? I ask because my build is a complete disaster that's trying to do everything and failing at it. I'd like to gauge just how much of a disaster it is.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
Patron
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
5,387
Location
Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Just completed the Gray Army quest. Poor lunch lady :negative:

Great quest, I regret not doing it on my first playthrough. At what level do people usually tackle this? I ask because my build is a complete disaster that's trying to do everything and failing at it. I'd like to gauge just how much of a disaster it is.
I always take Persuasion in my builds so once I hit 70 Persuasion I go ahead and do it. I don't know what level you'd have to be to fight your way through the base, but I'd assume you'd have to be at least 15 on Dominating with a good build, and perhaps even higher.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
I definitely do the Grey Army Base before going to the Expedition (which usually happens at lvl 20-22 for me), because I want to have the Juice in the dlc. I usually do the GAB at around lvl 18-20.
 

Ghulgothas

Arcane
Joined
Feb 22, 2020
Messages
1,610
Location
So Below
Just completed the Gray Army quest. Poor lunch lady :negative:

Great quest, I regret not doing it on my first playthrough. At what level do people usually tackle this? I ask because my build is a complete disaster that's trying to do everything and failing at it. I'd like to gauge just how much of a disaster it is.
After Rail Crossing and Camp Hathor, Pre-Core City Factions. So around... 15 to 18? Maybe a level or two earlier, I view it as the second-and-final stress test for build efficiency after Depot A.
 

BanEvader

Guest
At what level do people usually tackle this?
For all the crying that the PSI nerf brought, pure PSI is still probably the most OP build in the game with the best power curve.
You get Locus of Control and laugh your way through the base at level 14.
I will now proceed to roll a pure PSI build yet again, and showcase the overpowered retardation that is pure PSI (Styg should have nerfed it way more).
 

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