World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[rusty_shackleford]

the deus ex game where you travel through prague by crawling through vents was 100% accurate though

 

[Gargaune]

You gotta link the best version bruh.

Infinitron, the Codex needs a What A Shame button.

 

[Zombra]

so is the argument immersion or that it kills player innovation wait where are you going with that goalpost dude stop stop the goal was right here what are you doing

You talking to me?

The argument is that traveling by vent makes no sense in any context except "it's a thing that happens in video games". It's not realistic. It doesn't fit into any setting. It's not a common trope in any genre of fiction. Even as a gameplay thing, it only makes sense as "a thing that is a thing because it is a thing". If someone had put a Simon Says lock on 60% of doors instead of having vents back in the day, we would have Simon games instead of vents and people would be defending them with just as much validity. "But Simon Says has always been in video games, it's an alternate way to achieve goals." So what, it's still idiotic.

 

[Grunker]

Zombra no I was replying to wesp

 

[Zombra]

Zombra no I was replying to wesp

*blushes, steps off of soapbox*

Carry on then bros

 

[Ninjerk]

so is the argument immersion or that it kills player innovation wait where are you going with that goalpost dude stop stop the goal was right here what are you doing

You talking to me?

The argument is that traveling by vent makes no sense in any context except "it's a thing that happens in video games". It's not realistic. It doesn't fit into any setting. It's not a common trope in any genre of fiction. Even as a gameplay thing, it only makes sense as "a thing that is a thing because it is a thing". If someone had put a Simon Says lock on 60% of doors instead of having vents back in the day, we would have Simon games instead of vents and people would be defending them with just as much validity. "But Simon Says has always been in video games, it's an alternate way to achieve goals." So what, it's still idiotic.

Vent scenes are generally pretty contrived, but not unique to videogames.

Spoiler

 

[Zombra]

Ninjerk You're not wrong, but we can stop talking about this now, I got what I came for

 

[Joggerino]

Is there anything better than spying on conversations while crawling through a vent? I don't think so.
EDIT: I'll also just mention the sweet utilization of vents in alien vs predator games.

 

[DeepOcean]

Vents = more ways to navigate a level.
More ways to navigate a level = good.
Dunno the issue with them. Is the lack of realism of going through them?
Dont care about realism on RPGs, if a design makes gameplayer better, realism should lose every time.
Only situation I see realism should win if is the game mechanics clash hard with the fiction and this was never a problem for vent crawling.
Besides, if you can turn into mist, going through vents is a non-issue.

Personally I was afraid that the game's design would be formulaic. Going through the vents as mist is one of the three basic abilities you got in Hardsuit's BL2. All three of which were related to exploration. Telekinesis let you open doors, turning into a bat let you glide over a long gap and becoming a mist was for vents. If it turned out that every single level from then on would have 1 door, 1 gap and 1 vent. Well, that would feel kinda shitty wunnit?

Yes and no, I agree with you that Hard Suit Labs certainly are fags enough to take the laziest way possible but there isnt anything inherent to vents that turn them formulaic, as you said doors, gaps and etc would be as formulaic if not more, formulaic is a design decision. Thi4f doesnt have vents and it is as formulaic as it can get.

 

[Delterius]

Vents = more ways to navigate a level.
More ways to navigate a level = good.
Dunno the issue with them. Is the lack of realism of going through them?
Dont care about realism on RPGs, if a design makes gameplayer better, realism should lose every time.
Only situation I see realism should win if is the game mechanics clash hard with the fiction and this was never a problem for vent crawling.
Besides, if you can turn into mist, going through vents is a non-issue.

Personally I was afraid that the game's design would be formulaic. Going through the vents as mist is one of the three basic abilities you got in Hardsuit's BL2. All three of which were related to exploration. Telekinesis let you open doors, turning into a bat let you glide over a long gap and becoming a mist was for vents. If it turned out that every single level from then on would have 1 door, 1 gap and 1 vent. Well, that would feel kinda shitty wunnit?

Yes and no, I agree with you that Hard Suit Labs certainly are fags enough to take the laziest way possible but there isnt anything inherent to vents that turn them formulaic, as you said doors, gaps and etc would be as formulaic if not more, formulaic is a design decision. Thi4f doesnt have vents and it is as formulaic as it can get.

I agree. There's nothing wrong with vents. But I forgot one detail: remember how I said telekinesis was for doors and mist was for vents? Well, what's keeping you from misting through a door as well? Nothing except the game's design.

 

[Justicar]

the deus ex game where you travel through prague by crawling through vents was 100% accurate though

You would know since you were created in Prague.

 

[Caim]

Pretty sure that if the people you suspect are up to no good are unleashing clay monsters upon your population said people will be in for a very bad time in the near future.

 

[Silverfish]

Why isn't disguising yourself as an innocent chicken not a part of 60+% of all games?

Because the objective of most games isn't getting to the other side.

 

[Fenix]

Deus Ex invented this system and has been using it with success in several game! The Werewolf game released lately did the very same thing only even more obvious...

And this is what bothred me most in nuDX, honestly. I'm playing it right now (sorta). This shit isn't as genius as it look for first 15 minutes.

 

[jackofshadows]

Is there anything better than spying on conversations while crawling through a vent? I don't think so.

Watching other people have sex while crawlng through a vent.

 

[Zombra]

Why isn't disguising yourself as an innocent chicken not a part of 60+% of all games?

Because the objective of most games isn't getting to the other side.

I love this, and obv not a serious argument, but so often it really is about getting to the other side. So many games are about "reach Point B" it's surprising when you think about it.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

This seems to be a problem with the Unreal engine. I haven't seen one Unreal engine game yet with facial animations as good as those of the old Source engine! The only thing coming close are the faces of Cyberpunk 2077...

Is Unreal also why the facial animations in TOW were also pretty bad/plastic?

 

[Wesp5]

so is the argument immersion or that it kills player innovation wait where are you going with that goalpost dude stop stop the goal was right here what are you doing

I don't quite understand that question, but my impression is that since Deus Ex invented the "vent-alternative", too many games rely on it instead of coming up with better and more realistic solutions.

 

[Fenix]

Infy just likes posting news.

But why? R Reynolds jpg.

Also Thief 2 managed to feel more realistic with level design, then nuDX. While maintaining similiar level of movement freedom.

 

[J1M]

if it's just about variety and throwing realism out the window then you might as well add magic portals and hand-dug tunnels

Semi realistic destructible environments would be nice. Most walls in a real building could be plowed through by any character with augmented strength. Noisy though.

Might be interesting if the alternative traversal wasn't the stealthy option for once, and stealth was more about blending in, tailgating, etc.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

if it's just about variety and throwing realism out the window then you might as well add magic portals and hand-dug tunnels

Semi realistic destructible environments would be nice. Most walls in a real building could be plowed through by any character with augmented strength. Noisy though.

Might be interesting if the alternative traversal wasn't the stealthy option for once, and stealth was more about blending in, tailgating, etc.

you should probably play the new deus ex games

 

[Roguey]

Is Unreal also why the facial animations in TOW were also pretty bad/plastic?

TOW uses FaceFX, yes. It's the same quality as New Vegas, but what makes TOW look more off-putting is the uncanny valley affect of the higher polycount character models.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Infy just likes posting news.

But why? R Reynolds jpg.

If I had to wager - boredom, brofists and the occasional dev freebies for his stakhanovite efforts.

 

[Latelistener]

Normal doors and hallways.

But the point is to provide an alternative path to those.

 

[Nano]

But the point is to provide an alternative path to those.

Dimension Door.