Grand Strategy Victoria 3

[Catacombs]

Are there any other economic grand strategy games for Victoria 3 to really take inspiration from?

Not grand strategy, but another "economics" game that comes to mind is Offworld Trading Company, which focuses on manipulating markets.

 

[Delterius]

its a bad idea with magic global market buying goods from producers.

yep.

everyone knows about how 'china breaks the economy', but they don't seem to realize why. start the game as a weak country like congo and you'll understand. the magic global market means that kongo will sell off everything it produces and will be unable to buy anything. mods can only go so far by cheating with extra money (due to the public debt erases money problem) and by greatly increasing commodity production via tech. but then you run into the 1 RGO type per province issue.

play a chill game and industrialize china. you'll see how there's 3 types of countries in the world. your spherelings, who prosper. other GP spherelings who, hopefully, also prosper (unless the AI subsidized 50 levels of unproductive factories everywhere). and then everybody else, who's starving to death. that is because china breaks both the standard game and the mods' solutions as well, due to the massive amounts of farmers who overproduce tea that ends up being both profitable and destroyed every month. thats even worse with india.

love vicky2, and its a beautiful experiment. but it's not definitive in any way. i also wish modders would experiment with decreasing the MTTH for RGO change events, but I think that's problematic because they sometimes hire people too slowly when they happen.

 

[Average Manatee]

Vic3 had a fix with the "goods substitution" idea, they just fucked everything else up. For all intents and purposes Vic3 doesn't even have an economy, there are no actual goods being bought or sold ever.

 

[what am i doing]

Are there any other economic grand strategy games for Victoria 3 to really take inspiration from?

Victoria II

V2, despite all the years and work, still does not have a working economy system its kept afloat by cheating. Also bugged to hell. Wouldn't call it a good inspiration.

V2 was made in about a year, and the expansions didn't change anything fundamental about the economy. What modders can do is limited. So I wouldn't say that makes it a bad inspiration, it's a lot of good ideas and a decent prototype and something that should have been built on.
Of course, modders haven't been able to fix it, they don't have access to the source code. So saying, well, this mod couldn't fix it or that mod couldn't fix it is utterly meaningless.

Bad implementation != bad idea.

Vic2 economy fundamentally does not work and it never worked, thats my issue tho. Its not even a good idea that wasn't implemented, its a bad idea with magic global market buying goods from producers.

The only good thing Victoria series had was population being represented, growing and dying and working in farms and factories to produce actual goods for the economy, the rest is not implemented.

See that's a problem with it having a global market, not with the system overall. You can't point at specific flaws it had and say therefore the whole system is bad and shouldn't be used as a basis to work from.

 

[Malakal]

Are there any other economic grand strategy games for Victoria 3 to really take inspiration from?

Victoria II

V2, despite all the years and work, still does not have a working economy system its kept afloat by cheating. Also bugged to hell. Wouldn't call it a good inspiration.

V2 was made in about a year, and the expansions didn't change anything fundamental about the economy. What modders can do is limited. So I wouldn't say that makes it a bad inspiration, it's a lot of good ideas and a decent prototype and something that should have been built on.
Of course, modders haven't been able to fix it, they don't have access to the source code. So saying, well, this mod couldn't fix it or that mod couldn't fix it is utterly meaningless.

Bad implementation != bad idea.

Vic2 economy fundamentally does not work and it never worked, thats my issue tho. Its not even a good idea that wasn't implemented, its a bad idea with magic global market buying goods from producers.

The only good thing Victoria series had was population being represented, growing and dying and working in farms and factories to produce actual goods for the economy, the rest is not implemented.

See that's a problem with it having a global market, not with the system overall. You can't point at specific flaws it had and say therefore the whole system is bad and shouldn't be used as a basis to work from.

That was just an example, I can list a ton.

Victoria created a nice idea of a game for me and many other people but in the end it is fundamentally broken and always was. No reason to jump on V3 just because of that.

 

[what am i doing]

Are there any other economic grand strategy games for Victoria 3 to really take inspiration from?

Victoria II

V2, despite all the years and work, still does not have a working economy system its kept afloat by cheating. Also bugged to hell. Wouldn't call it a good inspiration.

V2 was made in about a year, and the expansions didn't change anything fundamental about the economy. What modders can do is limited. So I wouldn't say that makes it a bad inspiration, it's a lot of good ideas and a decent prototype and something that should have been built on.
Of course, modders haven't been able to fix it, they don't have access to the source code. So saying, well, this mod couldn't fix it or that mod couldn't fix it is utterly meaningless.

Bad implementation != bad idea.

Vic2 economy fundamentally does not work and it never worked, thats my issue tho. Its not even a good idea that wasn't implemented, its a bad idea with magic global market buying goods from producers.

The only good thing Victoria series had was population being represented, growing and dying and working in farms and factories to produce actual goods for the economy, the rest is not implemented.

See that's a problem with it having a global market, not with the system overall. You can't point at specific flaws it had and say therefore the whole system is bad and shouldn't be used as a basis to work from.

That was just an example, I can list a ton.

Victoria created a nice idea of a game for me and many other people but in the end it is fundamentally broken and always was. No reason to jump on V3 just because of that.

Nah, I think it's a great reason to shit on Victoria 3, they abandoned a good system that had some flaws in favour of something that didn't even try to be a simulation.

 

[Frumentum]

Are there any other economic grand strategy games for Victoria 3 to really take inspiration from?

Victoria II

V2, despite all the years and work, still does not have a working economy system its kept afloat by cheating. Also bugged to hell. Wouldn't call it a good inspiration.

V2 was made in about a year, and the expansions didn't change anything fundamental about the economy. What modders can do is limited. So I wouldn't say that makes it a bad inspiration, it's a lot of good ideas and a decent prototype and something that should have been built on.
Of course, modders haven't been able to fix it, they don't have access to the source code. So saying, well, this mod couldn't fix it or that mod couldn't fix it is utterly meaningless.

Bad implementation != bad idea.

Vic2 economy fundamentally does not work and it never worked, thats my issue tho. Its not even a good idea that wasn't implemented, its a bad idea with magic global market buying goods from producers.

The only good thing Victoria series had was population being represented, growing and dying and working in farms and factories to produce actual goods for the economy, the rest is not implemented.

See that's a problem with it having a global market, not with the system overall. You can't point at specific flaws it had and say therefore the whole system is bad and shouldn't be used as a basis to work from.

That was just an example, I can list a ton.

Victoria created a nice idea of a game for me and many other people but in the end it is fundamentally broken and always was. No reason to jump on V3 just because of that.

Nah, I think it's a great reason to shit on Victoria 3, they abandoned a good system that had some flaws in favour of something that didn't even try to be a simulation.

Exactly. They could have fixed the Victoria 2 economy and made additions to it. What we got was a much worse system.

 

[Fedora Master]

There won't be any recovery from this and they know it. No amount of fiddling with agitators or whatever will fix it and considering we've heard nothing lately pretty much confirms they dropped it like a hot potato.

(This is clearly the fan's fault for not believing enough and not buying the DLC.)

 

[Axioms]

There won't be any recovery from this and they know it. No amount of fiddling with agitators or whatever will fix it and considering we've heard nothing lately pretty much confirms they dropped it like a hot potato.

(This is clearly the fan's fault for not believing enough and not buying the DLC.)

Well they are commited until the Spheres Of Influence dlc at least.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

Victoria 3 economy was designed for revolutionary way from early capitalism to anarchocommunism. Player apparently disliked this and Paradox suffocates the fire with chaotic patching.

 

[Silva]

There won't be any recovery from this and they know it. No amount of fiddling with agitators or whatever will fix it and considering we've heard nothing lately pretty much confirms they dropped it like a hot potato.

(This is clearly the fan's fault for not believing enough and not buying the DLC.)

Well they are commited until the Spheres Of Influence dlc at least.

Wait, Nobunaga is coming to Victoria?

Spoiler

 

[Fedora Master]

Patch notes, cut out the bullshit about Voice of the People because nobody cares:

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Previous dev diary
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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #90 - Update 1.3.5 changelog
Thread starterlachek Start dateToday at 12:06
16_9.jpg

Happy Thursday! Today we will reveal the final list of changes in the 1.3.5 update which is due to roll out on Monday June 26th (but more on that at the end!)

As we mentioned a few weeks ago, Update 1.3.5 is bigger than one of our usual post-release patches, since we wanted to take this opportunity not just to fix some of the bugs you've identified but also to make some much-needed improvements to the content in Voice of the People. For those who don't own Voice of the People, there are some new high impact improvements to the base game as well.

This does mean that there may be issues with existing saves, though. Your save games should load up fine, but especially if you're playing with Voice of the People as France, some of the reworks may cause your progress in existing saves to break in hard-to-predict ways. As always you will be able to roll back to version 1.3.3 on Steam to wrap up your games in progress.

With that said, on to the updates! First up, improvements made to Voice of the People. Here we have focused our efforts on improving the content in line with the feedback we have received, as described in Dev Diary #88. As an example, here is the revised Divided Monarchy Journal Entry:
DD90_1.png

As you can see, the Journal Entry is now a proper race between three dynasties rather than a timer to install the candidate of your choosing. You will still select your preferred candidate, which gives you the option to Sway characters to support that dynasty, but that does not necessarily mean it is that dynasty who will be enthroned once the Journal Entry completes.

So what determines the rate of progress for each dynasty? Let's take a look:
DD90_2.png

The popularity of characters is one factor. This is not limited to just Interest Group leaders - the ruler, heir, generals, admirals, and agitators can all impact the rate. Furthermore, all of these can be Swayed to your cause, and the cooldown for the Sway interaction has been reduced to 2 years (from 5) to give you more opportunities to do so. Since Agitators tend to have a lot of Popularity, finding one you can invite and bribe into agitating for your candidate can help your cause a lot - or send one of those Bonapartist Generals into war to win battles for you in order to help the Bonapartist cause.

Another major factor is the Clout of Interest Groups led by people of the appropriate Ideology. This is multiplied if you can somehow maneuver the Interest Group into government.

Building levels of a particular type is a major aspect. Bonapartist gain progress from military buildings, Orleanists from industrial buildings, and Legitimists from agricultural buildings. If you feel forced to increase France's military readiness, this will favor the Bonapartist cause. I found out the hard way that this includes Conscription Centers - once your conscripts are fully raised, and for as long as the war is raging, the Bonapartists will hold a lot of sway in France.

Your government Legitimacy will also affect the dynastic dominance. For the house currently enthroned, positive Legitimacy (over 50) will increase the rate of progress while it will decrease it (to a lesser extent) for the other dynasties. This doesn't only apply to the house of Orléans necessarily, because if France were to abolish the monarchy and re-establish it, a different house may sit the throne and the Divided Monarchy Journal Entry may re-emerge.

Of course, your decisions during the events associated with the Journal Entry will also matter, which may lead to other effects on the rate of dynastic progress.

There's one very good reason to try to resolve this Journal Entry as soon as possible:
DD90_3.png

While the Divided Monarchists Journal Entry is active, a Republican Unrest modifier applies to all of France. This makes it very difficult to get Loyalists from just having a high Legitimacy, but very easy to gain Radicals from a low Legitimacy. It also makes it harder to maintain a legitimate government with an ideologically incoherent government; if your Resistance Party contains Interest Groups of several different dynasties, it's likely your Legitimacy will be hard to maintain due to infighting. Finally, the Radicalism of any Political Movements that may emerge will be higher than usual, making it more likely that political demands will result in taking up arms.

Finally, let's take a look at the failure conditions:
DD90_4.png

It is not implausible that the Divided Monarchy Journal Entry will devolve into chaos and republicanism. This will happen if there's an Interest Group in France that supports a Presidential Republic, if Turmoil in the capital is quite high, and if one of the following is true:
France is experiencing the Springtime of the Peoples
France has more than 25% Radicals
A civil war is about to break out

This would impose a Provisional Government on France, changing the state to a Presidential Republic and Appointed Bureaucrats, exiling the current monarch, making the leader of an Interest Group that supports Republicanism the President, and calling an election. But of course, should France restore the Monarchy at a later time, the question of dynastic rights will re-emerge.

On the other hand, should you succeed in the Divided Monarchy Journal Entry and enthrone one of the candidates:
DD90_5.png


you will still have to prove you have the chops to rule:
DD90_6.png

No progress will be made on this Journal Entry unless you can prove Napoleon (in this case) can assure a stable government, and for as long as you retain it the Divided Monarchists Journal Entry (and its impact on France in terms of republican unrest) will remain. This also means that Divided Monarchists can still fail while Napoleon (or whoever) is cementing his reign.

In addition to the enhancements to the Divided Monarchists Journal Entry there are several other improvements made to Voice of the People, so let's go through the full changelog:
DD90_7.png
Improvements

Reworked the Divided Monarchists journal entry to improve depth and player involvement
Added decision for France to purchase Luxembourg
After France declares it natural borders, nations on their war path receive an event warning them of French aggression and adding a conscription modifier to relevant states
Successful coups now cancel a law being enacted if they do not prefer it to the current one
A socialist revolution in France will now lead to a Commune which starts as a Council Republic
Adjusted the Cement the Rightful Dynasty journal entry to require maintaining legitimacy as said dynasty
Lets the French player Sway any character other than rulers or heirs (including Generals, Admirals, and Agitators) to their dynastic ideology of choice
Players will receive relevant information on the Garibaldi and Indochina events as they happen
Enacting Monarchy as a republican France will now prompt the player to choose a historical candidate to enthrone
Interface

Added notification when France declares its natural borders
Improved usability of Divided Monarchy and Cementing the Rightful Dynasty Journal Entries
Several triggers relating to Sway to French dynastic ideologies should now be much more legible
All Algerian Journal Entry tooltips have been cleaned up and the requirements for The Algerian Departments Journal Entry will no longer reference Provence
Balance

New Republican Unrest modifier on Divided Monarchy Journal Entry increases Radicals from low Legitimacy, decreases Loyalists from high Legitimacy, increases Legitimacy penalty for having mixed ideologies in government, and increases the Radicalism of Political Movements while the dynastic crisis is ongoing
Increases difficulty and Approval penalties for preventing a coup by removing an Interest Group from government
Reduces the Sway to dynastic Ideology cooldown from 5 years to 2 years
Longer cooldowns to some events associated with Divided Monarchy
AI

Adjusted French AI weights for default strategies and for individual admin, diplomatic and political strategies, dependent on dynastic control of France
Legitimists and Bonapartists have additional weights towards having a Protect attitude towards the Papal States if it is a theocracy (i.e., they will want to protect the Pope more)
Legitimists have an additional weight to Befriend Spain if Spain is a monarchy
France is more likely to demand the relevant Algerian territory in a peace deal
The French AI will more consistently strive to conquer Algeria, as long as the Conquest of Algeria Journal Entry is active.
France is more likely to take an appropriate diplomatic stance (conquest) towards Algerian minors
Bugfixes

Fixed a bug where many events from Voice of the People did not play sounds
Ensures on_pulse events for Divided Monarchy won't continue while the dynasty is cementing its rule
Garibaldi now becomes an agitator when exiled by event
Removes the event option for Death of Charles X event that gives Legitimist progress while Cementing the Rightful Dynasty is active
Fixed case where March on Versailles event can trigger twice
Restrictions on french_pretenders_pulse.3 event trigger should now ensure the immediate effect always has a chance to save its scope
All historical members of the d'Orleans dynasty are now properly tracked as being "orleanist_leaders" for the purpose of triggering events
Removes superfluous cooldown on Death of Charles X event since it can only occur once regardless

But that is not all. We have also made a number of improvements to the base game, some of them to support the new Voice of the People content but also general improvements and important bugfixes. A few very important ones include:
DD90_8.png

You can now selectively demobilize a General, as long as at least 6 months have passed since mobilization. Doing so will immediately demobilize them and cut their goods consumption, but the budget you've allocated will be reduced gradually over the next 4 months. Nevertheless, if you find yourself in a situation where you have way too many Generals mobilized to successfully prosecute a protracted war, this may be a better option for you.

In addition, a lot of improvements have been made to Unifications, as outlined in more detail in the notes below. We have also improved the new Industry Banned Law to make it more relevant, and changed Interest Group Traits to deactivate at a different Approval level than they activate to cut down on notifications spam. In the process we have also made it possible for modders to change Interest Group Traits through events, opening a lot of possibilities for unique Interest Group Traits for different countries or cultures.

Finally I want to mention performance. Late-game performance is a big priority for both the community and us, and we are working on it continuously. Among other things we have added a Pop Consolidation game rule to let you customize the amount by which you want your small pops to merge as the game goes on. Feel free to try it out and let us know how effective it is in resolving your performance concerns. This is not the only thing we have done to improve performance and we will continue our work on it, to ensure the endgame is more pleasurable than it is currently.

The full list of improvements and fixes follows:
DD90_9.png
Improvements
New character interaction to demobilize a general while still at war. Generals must have been mobilized for at least 6 months, and their mobilization cost will remain but decay for up to 4 months after they have been ordered to demobilize.
Added the starting Journal Entry 'An Odious Debt' to Haiti, as well as associated events, dealing with the Haitian indemnity/debt crisis.
Moved the decision for Haiti to cancel its French indemnities into the Journal Entry
Unification plays now target all countries that hold states that are relevant for the unification, and are not supporters, allies or subjects of the initiator
Unification plays will no longer target disqualified Unification candidates, but can target Great Powers, so Italian unification will tend to target Austria for Lombardy/Venetia and German unification will tend to target France for Alsace-Lorraine
Unification plays now spawn individual wargoals for each relevant state instead of one umbrella wargoal
When a unification play is launched, all unification supporters of the initiator are now annexed by them
The opposing side in a unification play now gets a 'Cut Down to Size' wargoal against the initiator
Active Interest Group Traits will no longer deactivate until Approval is sufficiently different from the cutoff, to make them more sticky and prevent notification spam
Petitions should no longer trigger while a law is enacted that the government already likes
Added flag canton definitions for Germany, the Dutch East Indies, and the Paris Commune

DD90_10.jpg
Interface
Add the Political Movement an Agitator is supporting or will start/join when invited to the character panel.
Added a toast notification when an agitator appears in the player's country
Exiled characters now send notification to all diplomatically relevant countries
Added important action to alert when characters can be demobilized early
Countries are now notified when a claim is gained in a region they have land in
Make an Exiles notification group and add it to the Message Settings.
Infrastructure derived from the population of a state now displays its cap properly in the tooltip
Character Interactions now display their cooldown time without having to go into the tooltip
Fixed an issue with revolution animations in the outliner.
Added 2 missing modifier icons
Low Training Rate alert at war now triggers based on actual negative training rate modifier and not the military budget level itself
Add empty states in the tooltips for State Infrastructure and Usage

DD90_11.jpg
Balance
Agitator Popularity now amplifies existing Support of Political Movements rather than generate Support from scratch
Significantly improved the Industry Banned law. Halved tech penalties and made them exclusive to Production tech. Added 50% private construction allocation. Added 10% agriculture throughput in all states. Added -10% expected SoL for all pops
Reduced army training rate to 20 per level for all PMs, except 10 for Irregular
Reduced demand for Fine Art, especially by richer pops
Increased demand for Services, especially by richer pops
Fixes a typo in pop needs script that made Services much less substitutable for Fine Art than intended
The reduced impact of the Petition Journal Entry timing out if you're already in the process of enacting the law is now scaled by how far you've gotten; no reduction if still at the initial phase, -5 Approval reduction in the second phase, and -10 Approval reduction in the third phase

DD90_12.png
Performance
Optimization of building particle graphics
Scales pop consolidation parameters by the current number of pops in the world, which could help late game performance
Added a Game Rule to let you control what degree of pop consolidation you want
DD90_13.jpg
Modding
Journal Entries now support modifiers, which propagate to their countries while active
Adds prefers_law trigger (returns if a character or interest group prefers one law over another)
Interest Groups can now be given unique Traits per country, both at startup and during play, using the set_ig_trait effect
Adds currently_active_law_in_group event target link (from one law to currently active law in same group)
Modifier types for Radicals/Loyalist gain at low/high Legitimacy added
Added on_actions for on_mobilized_general and on_demobilized_general
Added demobilize effect for character scopes
Added mobilization_cost compare trigger for character scopes
Journal Entry database types now have modifiers_while_active functionality to specify modifiers to automatically apply on activation
New direct link ig_trait implemented
DD90_14.png
Bugfixes
Fixed a bug that caused newly released countries to not have any Journal Entries
Fix a bug where released countries would always take the state religion of the releaser, instead of this only being the case for revolutions as intended
Fixed a bug that prevented secessions that can't progress above 0% from disbanding
Fixed CTD when switching the graphics settings in the main menu after returning to it from the game
Liberate Country wargoals are now only mutually exclusive if they have conflicting released states
Autocracies will now properly transition into single-party states
Agitators exiled by AI should now always end up in the Exile pool
Fixed a bug where movements could in rare cases become revolutionary without any Interest Group support
Fixed hidden map objects exposing themselves after changing the graphics settings in the main menu
Coups are no longer inheritable by revolutionary countries
Fixed a bug in the prediction of which political movement exiles would start, causing it to incorrectly say they wouldn't start a movement.
Fixed a bug that caused revolutionary political movements to stay revolutionary when their radicalism dropped. Revolutionary movements whose radicalism drops too low are now turned back into regular political movements.
Springtime of the People Journal Entry is no longer inheritable by revolutionary countries
Agitators now leave political movements when given roles incompatible with the agitator character role.
Fixed scope error in In the Hands of the State and Agitator events
The leaders of French republics will now properly be called the President
Submarines and Carriers now have a per-level training rate penalty instead of unscaled
Make the tooltip for Law Enactment say that there is a chance the Law will pass on the next checkpoint when on the last phase
Added a check to Expand Building Tutorial to ensure the building selected can actually be expanded
Head of States in Parliamentary Republics are now selected based on their Interest Group's Clout (including Voting Power) rather than raw Political Strength
Fixed case where Officer and a Gentleman event could target a character who had not been sent away
Fixed an edge case in government petitions which could cause error log spam
Fixed an issue where exiles events would cause error log spam
Error log no longer spams with [RandomizableValueFloat.GetValue] while in MP
John French can now be recruited as a General starting only in the year he begun his military career, not as a tiny baby

(It's fucking nothing, dead game)

 

[Axioms]

Rough run for Paradox, V3 player numbers cracking into the negatives in the last 5 days of the month. Burtal. 3rd month of bombs in a row.

 

[Space Satan]

Rough run for Paradox, V3 player numbers cracking into the negatives in the last 5 days of the month. Burtal. 3rd month of bombs in a row.

I hate current warfare and 3d victoria approach and like to see current dev team demise but listening that from you is kinda...cringe.
How should I put it, developer...

 

[Axioms]

Yes, multimillion dollar studio with high double digits of team members is quite comparable to me. Thanks for your vote of confidence.

 

[Konjad]

I haven't touched the game, figured out I'd better wait a year until they fix it.

But it seems they won't?

Well, I'm not that surprised tbh.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

But it seems they won't?

Can't fix an unfun gameplay loop tbqh.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

I haven't touched the game, figured out I'd better wait a year until they fix it.

But it seems they won't?

Well, I'm not that surprised tbh.

Version 2.0 is better, they also add few upgrades and new politics and, as I said somewhere, now gameplay is finally not a great toward anarchism/communism.

But "improved" doesn't mean "good". Economy works like in Hearts of Iron IV, but worse. There is a strange philosophy how Victoria connect prices, products, trade and societal happiness. They should propel each other, instead of that
investments in construction only breaks status quo. It is especially annoying when you start with a poor country like Argentina.

 

[Silva]

But it seems they won't?

Can't fix an unfun gameplay loop tbqh.

but but Imperator...

 

[Space Satan]

Down and down and down it goes, when it stops nobody knows

 

[Axioms]

Victoria 3 embroiled in a new kerfluffle regarding Frederick Douglass supporting pro-slavery parties so consistently. The thread on the subreddit just got locked and we'll see how it goes on the Plaza. What is more interesting is that apparently some people as a result of the ignorance involved in today's drama have reached out to the Douglass family and to several Douglass/abolition focused academics to get their take on the situation so this coule blow up beyond PDox's gaming journalism stooges and enter mainstream media.

Any media attention is good attention according to some. Guess we'll find out.

 

[Fedora Master]

Well, at least SOMETHING is happening with the game. Otherwise it's pretty much FUCKING DEAD.

The game has the same lazy random behavior from "people" that CK3 has - They aren't historical people beyond their name and IGs have no actual agenda. Intelligentsia will clamor for censorship no problem.

 

[Axioms]

Well, at least SOMETHING is happening with the game. Otherwise it's pretty much FUCKING DEAD.

The game has the same lazy random behavior from "people" that CK3 has - They aren't historical people beyond their name and IGs have no actual agenda. Intelligentsia will clamor for censorship no problem.

The wild part is that Victoria 3 aligns Douglass with the Rural Folk like bro, are you out of your mind? Slaves and tenant farmers in the same IG wtf? The fact that he sometimes supports The Democrats is almost secondary to that. Although he is on record as saying no person of color with brains could support The Democrats so it is still pretty bad.

At least when Paradox has ridiculous Civil War outcomes that is abstract enough to not be a big deal.

 

[thesecret1]

I'm amazed that enough people care about this piece of shit to start any kind of drama.

 

[Axioms]

I'm amazed that enough people care about this piece of shit to start any kind of drama.

Well at least drama can be fun and engaging, unlike Vicky3.