EvilWolf
Learned
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2021
- Messages
- 249
Literally just scroll up, from your post, for an example of their Mary Sue status. Melting a space marine, let alone a Chaos space marine, with a single burst of ion fire isn't Mary Sue status? Okay.
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Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]
- Thread starter Angriph
- Start date
Trithne
Erudite
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2008
- Messages
- 1,200
Space Marines are just bigger tougher faster humans in Power Armour. As tough as an Ork, as quick as an Eldar. They're not god-warriors. They die just fine. It's the combination of strong, tough, fast, skilled, and armoured that make them the best, rather than having one or two like Orks/Eldar.
Also, if you take the current version of the tabletop rules:
A Tau Fire Warrior (BS 4+) is armed with a Pulse Rifle (36" S5 AP-1 RF1) and shoots at a Space Marine (T4 W2 Sv3+).
The Fire Warrior has a 50% chance to even hit the target to begin with. Then comparing S5 vs T4, they need a 3+ to wound them (66%). Assuming they wound, the Marine now gets a 3+ Armour Save, which would be modified to 4+ by the Pulse Rifle's AP, but Marine Armour ignores the first point of AP so they still get the 3+ (33% chance of the wound sticking). Now assuming that fails, you've dealt 1 Wound to the Space Marine. He has 2. Do it again.
0.5 * 0.66 * 0.33 = 0.1% chance for a given Fire Warrior to wound a Space Marine with their rifle once.
So no, Tau are mechanically fine. On the other hand, GW writers have spent the last 10 years believing the shit they write about Marines and crawling up their asses. Let's not even start on Primaris Marines, the Suest of Sues.
Tyranicon
A Memory of Eternity
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2019
- Messages
- 6,298
The "power level" of the average astartes is one of the most inconsistent details in 40k.
Gameplaywise on the tabletop, one space marine is worth a bunch of guardsmen. Okay, makes sense, since you don't want to have an army of only like 10 models (like custodes).
In the lore, they range from anywhere between being just a tall dude in power armor, to invincible demi-gods capable of conquering entire worlds by themselves.
But let's be logical about this. Setting aside how many John Wick skills an Astartes has, their standard equipment is: power armor and bolter.
How strong is power armor? Very strong. But still weaker than most vehicles, both in gameplay and in lore. Same with the bolter, your standard Rhino with twinlinked bolter already outguns the average space marine.
Any of the Tau battlesuits should, on the face of armor and weapons, be more than a match for a single astartes. Forget the source, but I remember Crisis suits being compared to terminator armor, except lighter and basically better in every way.
So how much of a resource cost is a battlesuit compared to the training and outfitting of a space marine? Presumably, much much cheaper.
So while the average firewarrior may have trouble downing a space marine, their mass produced gundam knockoffs definitely can. Astartes are not great in cost efficiency.
Their elite, grimdark badass meme status should not be taken at face value. It's like how their bolters don't have sights on them, the original bolters looking like they were made by somebody with no gun knowledge, and using something as impractical as a chainsword.
It's part of the satire.
Gameplaywise on the tabletop, one space marine is worth a bunch of guardsmen. Okay, makes sense, since you don't want to have an army of only like 10 models (like custodes).
In the lore, they range from anywhere between being just a tall dude in power armor, to invincible demi-gods capable of conquering entire worlds by themselves.
But let's be logical about this. Setting aside how many John Wick skills an Astartes has, their standard equipment is: power armor and bolter.
How strong is power armor? Very strong. But still weaker than most vehicles, both in gameplay and in lore. Same with the bolter, your standard Rhino with twinlinked bolter already outguns the average space marine.
Any of the Tau battlesuits should, on the face of armor and weapons, be more than a match for a single astartes. Forget the source, but I remember Crisis suits being compared to terminator armor, except lighter and basically better in every way.
So how much of a resource cost is a battlesuit compared to the training and outfitting of a space marine? Presumably, much much cheaper.
So while the average firewarrior may have trouble downing a space marine, their mass produced gundam knockoffs definitely can. Astartes are not great in cost efficiency.
Their elite, grimdark badass meme status should not be taken at face value. It's like how their bolters don't have sights on them, the original bolters looking like they were made by somebody with no gun knowledge, and using something as impractical as a chainsword.
It's part of the satire.
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2012
- Messages
- 28,464
How would you know? Nerds in dresses never get into Valhalla.
NecroLord
Dumbfuck!
Tau who?
Seriously, I never pay much attention to that faction.
Seriously, I never pay much attention to that faction.
NecroLord
Dumbfuck!
laclongquan
Arcane
:gag:
This is the type of writing you would need paying in professional money to read, not for fun. Or at least, I would need pay to read this shit.
Unfortunately, writers of this level plague game development for quite a while now.
This is the type of writing you would need paying in professional money to read, not for fun. Or at least, I would need pay to read this shit.
Unfortunately, writers of this level plague game development for quite a while now.
Peachcurl
Cipher
I'm not defending the Tau. I'm saying there's not much love for the Tau on the Codex. Which is what rusty was going on about.
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2017
- Messages
- 28,453
IT IS I, CATO SICARIUS!
NecroLord
Dumbfuck!
Peachcurl
Cipher
Dayum... 9 year old video, still very much on point.
That's crazy! How many ways does 40k have to protect its fans' virginity?
NecroLord
Dumbfuck!
There are no women.That's crazy! How many ways does 40k have to protect its fans' virginity?
There is only the Emperor.
Tyranicon
A Memory of Eternity
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2019
- Messages
- 6,298
Spending all your money on plastic is usually enough by itself.
Reinhardt
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2015
- Messages
- 30,129
There's war orphans for a reason.
Tyranicon
A Memory of Eternity
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2019
- Messages
- 6,298
There's war orphans for a reason.
Interestingly enough, war orphans in 40k generally have a better life than the vast majority of human population, as they are raised in the Schola Progenium. A tough-as-balls
While entrance to the schola is generally for the orphaned children of officers or nobles, it is not unknown for those of lower class to find their way there as well.
Cryomancer
Arcane
What about civilian gun ownership in the imperium? Can civilians own "sci fi" pistols? Rifles? Armored vehicles? spaceships & cannons?
NecroLord
Dumbfuck!
With all the hive gangs going apeshit, yeah, probably.
Just not any advanced imperial gear and weaponry, that's for sure.
Tyranicon
A Memory of Eternity
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2019
- Messages
- 6,298
None of the 40k writers bothered with this, to my knowledge. The answer likely depends where you live and how much money/power you have. It's probably generally assumed that if you need a gun and have access to guns, you probably can have a gun.
After all, guns allow you to purge the xenos, heretic and mutant more effectively.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2020
- Messages
- 2,244
Some of the underhive gangs on Necromunda have pretty high tech gear including plasma and melta weapons, even the lowest underhive scumbag will have access to tons of solid projectile weapons and probably to las weapons too. I dont think I have ever seen anything on gun regulation in general anywhere in the Imperium, though in general I would assume that people tend to be armed to the teeth unless they are slaves or live under similar degree of control (and that seems to be a relative minority). After all, underhives are very dangerous and even less hardcore places like various agriworlds probably have all kinds of dangerous animals and stuff like that.
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