Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader - turn-based Warhammer 40k RPG from Owlcat Games - now with Void Shadows DLC

[Dishonoredbr]

A far more innocuous surprise for the team? The popularity of Marazhai, a Drukhari officer who can join the player's team under certain circumstances. His appeal has been far broader than Owlcat expected, and Shestov says that Marazhai is "popular as hell" as a romance option.

the Drukhari being popular between the Monkeighs? Hardly a surprise.

And

But when you’re doing it with a team of 100 people, and with such a fanbase, it’s twice as big a leap of faith

100 people worked on rogue trader.

 

[Desiderius]

PoE/Deadfire tries to solve this by only allowing buffs in combat

Which is RIDICULOUS. And lead monsters to lose a lot of interesting abilities.

Imo if the party is in a undead crypt, spells like negative plane protection are a necessity. If is fine for a group to buy antidote before going into a poisonous swamp, why casting magical protection against poisons isn't fine? If you take it out from pcs, poison end up being less powerful as they can't protect themselves from it. You end up punishing preparation and makes no sense.

In wh40k Owlcat could have made having too much buffs from psyker being too dangerous to be worthy using endless buffs.

It's not ridiculous when the buffs have short duration which they do in PoE. You want to cast them precisely at the moment they're needed to maximize their usefulness and avoid wasting any of their brief duration which is measured in dozens of seconds at best.

Too high a cost in action econ. Some interesting tactics involved in letting fight come to you but overall an overcorrect.

That's the whole point. Buffs should not be free power, if they are then there's no reason not to use them and they are too OP. Buffs then become ticking a checklist before combat starts rather than something with tactical consideration. If buffs have a cost and there are reasons not to use them then there would actually be depth and meaning in the use of buffs.

Buffs already have a cost.

 

[MjKorz]

Buffs already have a cost.

What cost? Spellslot cost is inconsequential in a game with infinite rests and AoE disabling spells powerful enough to disable entire encounters in one cast.

The cost of buffs starts being felt only when they start cutting into your action economy mid-battle. If you can pre-buff outside of battle, buffs have no meaningful cost.

 

[user]

Supplies/corruption didn't allow infinite rests, even if they allow too many imo (I ignore the places that cleanse corruption and it's pretty great). Time limitations are also a thing in Kingmaker.
Buffing only in combat is anti-RP, game-y, and in general, a stupid idea, missing the point, in order to solve a "problem" that has way better solutions.

 

[MjKorz]

Supplies/corruption didn't allow infinite rests, even they allow too many imo (I ignore the places that cleanse corruption and it's pretty great). Time limitations are also a thing in Kingmaker.
Buffing only in combat is anti-RP, game-y, and in general, a stupid idea, missing the point, in order to solve a "problem" that has way better solutions.

Corruption does not prevent infinite rests in all but a couple of dungeons and even then those dungeons are late game so you get more than enough spellslots. Supplies in games like PoE or Kingmaker are also a non-issue: just buy more lol. If you need more supplies or need to clear corruption (which you won't, because you'll have more than enough rests anyway), just go back to town and return or just carry more in Kingmaker. Time limitations in Kingmaker do not stem from resting: you spend far more time walking around and doing projects than resting.

Buffs outside of combat have no meaningful cost and become mandatory, forcing the developer to assume that the player is going to be pre-buffed 100% of the time and adjust the encounter difficulty appropriately. If they don't account for constant pre-buffing, encounters become too easy to the point of triviality. When pre-buffs become mandatory, you might just as well remove them from the game and spare everyone the headache. Only way to have buffs have a meaningful cost is to make them cut into your combat action economy.

 

[Ibn Sina]

This game has the worst implementation of psykers I have seen in any 40k gaming medium. With very few, anaemic abilities , recycled animations from other classes ( at least for the pyromancer) and no narrative effect on the plot or how companion react to you ( except through a few throwaway lines at beginning of the game.)

Extremely shoddy and lazy work by owlcat.

 

[MjKorz]

This game has the worst implementation of psykers I have seen in any 40k gaming medium. With very few, anaemic abilities , recycled animations from other classes ( at least for the pyromancer) and no narrative effect on the plot or how companion react to you ( except through a few throwaway lines at beginning of the game.)

Extremely shoddy and lazy work by owlcat.

The lack of variety in psyker abilities for each particular discipline is indeed pathetic. As is the lack of class/background reactivity, but that's a problem in all of their games.

 

[Desiderius]

Supplies/corruption didn't allow infinite rests, even they allow too many imo (I ignore the places that cleanse corruption and it's pretty great). Time limitations are also a thing in Kingmaker.
Buffing only in combat is anti-RP, game-y, and in general, a stupid idea, missing the point, in order to solve a "problem" that has way better solutions.

Corruption does not prevent infinite rests in all but a couple of dungeons and even then those dungeons are late game so you get more than enough spellslots. Supplies in games like PoE or Kingmaker are also a non-issue: just buy more lol. If you need more supplies or need to clear corruption (which you won't, because you'll have more than enough rests anyway), just go back to town and return or just carry more in Kingmaker. Time limitations in Kingmaker do not stem from resting: you spend far more time walking around and doing projects than resting.

Buffs outside of combat have no meaningful cost and become mandatory, forcing the developer to assume that the player is going to be pre-buffed 100% of the time and adjust the encounter difficulty appropriately. If they don't account for constant pre-buffing, encounters become too easy to the point of triviality. When pre-buffs become mandatory, you might just as well remove them from the game and spare everyone the headache. Only way to have buffs have a meaningful cost is to make them cut into your combat action economy.

If you want to get the 7,500 gold amulet (plus some EXP and other loot) off of the Nabasu in Market Square you have to plan out limited rests up to lvl 5 or so. If you rest in Gray Garrison you lose the perma-haste. You *can* go back for multiple trips on Leper's Smile and Lost Chapel but most don't.

Drezen may well be the most memorable dungeon in the game and with corruption turned back on rest management is *very* relevant trying to clear it on Unfair or even Hard. Until the big Stealth bonus items start showing up in Act 4 autopassing Stealth checks on the World Map is non-trivial without Aru. If you're using Mythic ability Reload to manage those ambushes the problem isn't with "infinite" rests. If you're restricting your party make-up or taking Abundant to get all those "required" buffs you're trading off the opportunity to play with martials + Skald that has less need of them or to take Favorite Meta on your offensive spells. "ZOMG pets are borken!" exacerbates that issue.

Just another example of endgame thinking dominating the analysis of a game much of which takes place in an environment wholly different from that end.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Supplies/corruption didn't allow infinite rests, even they allow too many imo (I ignore the places that cleanse corruption and it's pretty great). Time limitations are also a thing in Kingmaker.
Buffing only in combat is anti-RP, game-y, and in general, a stupid idea, missing the point, in order to solve a "problem" that has way better solutions.

Corruption does not prevent infinite rests in all but a couple of dungeons and even then those dungeons are late game so you get more than enough spellslots. Supplies in games like PoE or Kingmaker are also a non-issue: just buy more lol. If you need more supplies or need to clear corruption (which you won't, because you'll have more than enough rests anyway), just go back to town and return or just carry more in Kingmaker. Time limitations in Kingmaker do not stem from resting: you spend far more time walking around and doing projects than resting.

Buffs outside of combat have no meaningful cost and become mandatory, forcing the developer to assume that the player is going to be pre-buffed 100% of the time and adjust the encounter difficulty appropriately. If they don't account for constant pre-buffing, encounters become too easy to the point of triviality. When pre-buffs become mandatory, you might just as well remove them from the game and spare everyone the headache. Only way to have buffs have a meaningful cost is to make them cut into your combat action economy.

If you want to get the 7,500 gold amulet (plus some EXP and other loot) off of the Nabasu in Market Square you have to plan out limited rests up to lvl 5 or so. If you rest in Gray Garrison you lose the perma-haste. You *can* go back for multiple trips on Leper's Smile and Lost Chapel but most don't.

Drezen may well be the most memorable dungeon in the game and with corruption turned back on rest management is *very* relevant trying to clear it on Unfair or even Hard. Until the big Stealth bonus items start showing up in Act 4 autopassing Stealth checks on the World Map is non-trivial without Aru. If you're using Mythic ability Reload to manage those ambushes the problem isn't with "infinite" rests. If you're restricting your party make-up or taking Abundant to get all those "required" buffs you're trading off the opportunity to play with martials + Skald that has less need of them or to take Favorite Meta on your offensive spells. "ZOMG pets are borken!" exacerbates that issue.

Just another example of endgame thinking dominating the analysis of a game much of which takes place in an environment wholly different from that end.

Bud, it's weird as hell seeing you outside the PF threads, just so you know.

 

[user]

Supplies/corruption didn't allow infinite rests, even they allow too many imo (I ignore the places that cleanse corruption and it's pretty great). Time limitations are also a thing in Kingmaker.
Buffing only in combat is anti-RP, game-y, and in general, a stupid idea, missing the point, in order to solve a "problem" that has way better solutions.

Corruption does not prevent infinite rests in all but a couple of dungeons and even then those dungeons are late game so you get more than enough spellslots. Supplies in games like PoE or Kingmaker are also a non-issue: just buy more lol. If you need more supplies or need to clear corruption (which you won't, because you'll have more than enough rests anyway), just go back to town and return or just carry more in Kingmaker. Time limitations in Kingmaker do not stem from resting: you spend far more time walking around and doing projects than resting.

Buffs outside of combat have no meaningful cost and become mandatory, forcing the developer to assume that the player is going to be pre-buffed 100% of the time and adjust the encounter difficulty appropriately. If they don't account for constant pre-buffing, encounters become too easy to the point of triviality. When pre-buffs become mandatory, you might just as well remove them from the game and spare everyone the headache. Only way to have buffs have a meaningful cost is to make them cut into your combat action economy.

If you want to get the 7,500 gold amulet (plus some EXP and other loot) off of the Nabasu in Market Square you have to plan out limited rests up to lvl 5 or so. If you rest in Gray Garrison you lose the perma-haste. You *can* go back for multiple trips on Leper's Smile and Lost Chapel but most don't.

Drezen may well be the most memorable dungeon in the game and with corruption turned back on rest management is *very* relevant trying to clear it on Unfair or even Hard. Until the big Stealth bonus items start showing up in Act 4 autopassing Stealth checks on the World Map is non-trivial without Aru. If you're using Mythic ability Reload to manage those ambushes the problem isn't with "infinite" rests. If you're restricting your party make-up or taking Abundant to get all those "required" buffs you're trading off the opportunity to play with martials + Skald that has less need of them or to take Favorite Meta on your offensive spells. "ZOMG pets are borken!" exacerbates that issue.

Just another example of endgame thinking dominating the analysis of a game much of which takes place in an environment wholly different from that end.

Haven't tried, but only after you kill the bosses in LS and LC, and several areas prevent it later in the game, if I remember correctly. E.g. in Blackwater you need a very high check/miniboss kill. And ambushes having more impact is also a very good point. Anyway, if someone is so disconnected from the game world to go back at these points and choose to slog through it like that in general... I am amazed how they chose to play it in the first place tbh.

 

[MjKorz]

If you want to get the 7,500 gold amulet (plus some EXP and other loot) off of the Nabasu in Market Square you have to plan out limited rests up to lvl 5 or so.

You don't. First of all, you can rest as much as you want in the maze without triggering the tavern attack. To get that amulet all you have to do is defend the tavern and then you can go fight the Nabasu. You only miss the amulet, if you skip the tavern defense which is done by those who avoid resting as much as possible, not by those who spam rest. Hitting all the content that gets changed after the tavern attack is very easy, because you don't have to actually do a lot of combat and can do all of it without resting above-ground: clear the tower of Estrod (the biggest part), activate the bridge in the market square, recruit Ember, solve the Hulrun/Ramien conflict (can be done non-violently), free the Flaming Lance Crusaders in the Library (can be done non-violently), recruit Woljif and maybe talk to the thieflings in the market square. After you've done this, you can rest until the tavern defense prompt, defend the tavern, then hit all other content while resting as much as you want. Essentially, there is zero need to ration your rests in the prologue and chapter 1, if you do things right.

If you rest in Gray Garrison you lose the perma-haste.

First of all, having that 1h30min Haste will reduce your need to rest. Secondly, even if you lose the ritual Haste, you can cast it from your full arcane caster while restoring lower level spellslots that can be used for offense (Grease, Glitterdust). Gray Garrison has at least 2 corruption-removing interactions so you can rest there quite a few times, allowing you to drop an AoE disabling spell almost every encounter.

You *can* go back for multiple trips on Leper's Smile and Lost Chapel but most don't.

Doesn't matter what most do or don't, the possibility is there with no real consequences for doing so. The generic cloak/ring you get for the efficient capture of Drezen are inconsequential.

with corruption turned back on rest management is *very* relevant trying to clear it on Unfair

Drezen has multiple corruption-reducing relics: at least 3, IIRC. It also happens at a point in the game where your full arcane caster has reached level 9+ and has plentiful spellslots for AoE disabling spells: Grease, Glitterdust or Winter's Grasp (via Loremaster), Stinking Cloud with Corruptor, Heightened any of the previously mentioned spells, Phantasmal Web or Greater Command (via Loremaster) or Heightened any of the previously mentioned spells. If you expend 1 AoE disabling spell per encounter cast by a properly leveled and supported (Court Poet + Cleric) DC caster, you will have no issue with resting and corruption.

Until the big Stealth bonus items start showing up in Act 4 autopassing Stealth checks on the World Map is non-trivial without Aru.

Absolutely wrong. Stealth checks are trivial with a DEX-based Court Poet, especially Kitsune.

taking Abundant

I don't. Buffers have more than enough spell slots, because only a couple of buffs are cast by an offensive full arcane caster: Reduce Person early on and Heroic Invocation in the later parts of the game. Everything else is cast by the Shaman, Cleric and Court Poet which do not cast offensively and can thus contribute all of their spellslots to buffing.

If you're restricting your party make-up

Proper party composition is always restricted. If your party does not have a full arcane DC caster supported by a Court Poet and Cleric or some other class that provides domains: it's trash. Whatever advantages you can think of will always be laughable relative to high DC AoE disables that dumpster entire encounters in 1 action.

you're trading off the opportunity to play with martials + Skald

A proper party has open slots for at least 2 pure martials of any variety, tank or damage dealer. That's more than enough. The only Skald that matters is Court Poet, the base Skald is worthless, utterly irrelevant dogshit.

"ZOMG pets are borken!"

You can get pets in a proper party without sacrificing anything important, if you want. I don't need them, because their AC cannot compete with a proper AC-stacker without wasting a party slot on a Brownfur for pet polymorphs.

Just another example of endgame thinking dominating

No, it's another example of your ignorance and lack of understanding of the game mechanics and proper party compositions.

 

[gurugeorge]

So did anything much change after the last big patch (I was looking at the patch notes for the big patch in June and it seemed to have a lot of extensive changes, like e.g. nerfing Officer and Navigator quite a bit)?

 

[Hydro]

Just stopped by to say how much I don’t care

 

[Fedora Master]

Dead game

 

[MjKorz]

So did anything much change after the last big patch (I was looking at the patch notes for the big patch in June and it seemed to have a lot of extensive changes, like e.g. nerfing Officer and Navigator quite a bit)?

Heavy weapons have their AP cost broken. Heard someone say operative is broken as well. Just Owlclown things.

 

[Cryomancer]

Spellslot cost is inconsequential

This is a 3.5e problem. 2e casters have much less spell slots.

This game has the worst implementation of psykers I have seen in any 40k gaming medium. With very few, anaemic abilities , recycled animations from other classes ( at least for the pyromance

In launch was much, much worse. Recycled animations? What about no animations? Anemic abilities? They where much worse at launch.

My greatest problem with psykers in this game 8s the lack of anything good from pen and paper. No telekinesis and biomancers lost all offensive cool blood powers, becoming merely buffers and debuffers. Perils of the warp stop mattering quickly.

Buffs outside of combat have no meaningful cost

Again, concentration made 5e monsters much weaker and bor8ng. But imo concentration mechanic is better than restricting abilities out 9f combat, too gamey.

A lot of tt games avoid endless buffing with mechanics consistent with lore like gurps.

 

[luj1]

This game has the worst implementation of psykers I have seen in any 40k gaming medium. With very few, anaemic abilities , recycled animations from other classes ( at least for the pyromancer) and no narrative effect on the plot or how companion react to you ( except through a few throwaway lines at beginning of the game.)

Extremely shoddy and lazy work by owlcat.

par for the course

In PF games most classes felt bland and samey too

 

[luj1]

Let me add that this game has the worst bloated, needlessly convoluted and metagamey chargen I have ever seen

 

[Swen]

OWLCUCKS, WHERE ARE THE SALES NUMBERS?!

Why are you hiding them?

 

[skaraher]

Yeah they fucked up. Wh40 TRPG system was simplistic, fast-paced and fun. Grossly imbalanced though, but that's in universe. Space Marine and Psyker mop up the floor with everything else but most of the games were not supposed to be combat heavy.

 

[Desiderius]

OWLCUCKS, WHERE ARE THE SALES NUMBERS?!

Why are you hiding them?

Wait until they finish the game for fuck sake. At this point in BG3 development you’d barely started storyboarding.

Of course you didn’t bother finishing your game either and it sold plenty so maybe you have a point.

 

[Fedora Master]

Let me add that this game has the worst bloated, needlessly convoluted and metagamey chargen I have ever seen

Nah, it's got nothing on Wrath.
This system is just boring banal shit.

 

[Cryomancer]

Yeah they fucked up. Wh40 TRPG system was simplistic, fast-paced and fun. Grossly imbalanced though, but that's in universe. Space Marine and Psyker mop up the floor with everything else but most of the games were not supposed to be combat heavy.

You are talking about Rogue Trader tabletop or about Dark Heresy?

About psykers and space marines being op in TT, imagine if the game had a librarian space marine. Just kidding, IMO this game could have a combat servitor and a mutant companion. That would be great.

 

[damager]

I read rolling a psyker is not really worth it?

That's a shame I love casters and the caster potraits are pretty cool too

 

[Cryomancer]

I read rolling a psyker is not really worth it?

That's a shame I love casters and the caster potraits are pretty cool too

Depends. If all you want if go full DPS burning enemies, pyromancy is ok(was trash before they buffed it). sadly, if you want to be a telepath taking control over the enemies, a telekineticist stopping bullets in mid air, throwing force bolts and choking enemies Vader style, or a biomancer using the blood of enemies against themselves, sadly you can't.

I tried to find good tutorials on how to mod this game, so I can put telekynesis and offensive biomancy, Haemorrhage, Blood Boil, and Bio-Lightning into the game but sadly still din't understood anything about modding this game.