Wizard's Crown

[octavius]

The starting party does indeed seem to start off with more skill points than a party you generate on your own. I still dumped them all and created a new party based on @Zombras advice. Right now I have the following characters:

You're playing Wizard's Crown too? Cool!

A big turn off was the length of the battles, but I know that after the first couple of fights, I really started to enjoy the combat.

The main problem is the lack of visual feedback. You have to check each enemy individually to see if they are wounded and even which way they face. The Gold Box games fixed all that, and added opportunity attacks and backstabs, but also sacrificed the importance of shields and facing. And it seems all the Intelligence of the AI was left behind in Wizard's Crown/Eternal Dagger...At least so far the enemy seems be to smarter with their targeting and movement.

Encounters in the town are rather boring, but the Brigands on the north road was more interesting: 1 Brigand Chief, several Brigands, several Thieves and one Scout.
Apparantly you can also encounter other Adventurer Parties, so the encounter design is pretty good.

 

[DaveO]

There is a large variety of enemies in the game. They get more dangerous as you travel south in the ruins of Arghan. I found a lot of the stuff I enchanted in the eastern part of the ruins, but I was staying around there almost exclusively for low impact to Morale Loss. Towards my finale buildup, I'd do two night fights in a row for more experience.

 

[octavius]

Looks like I had to fight some Undead in the cemetary at night to complete the cleaning up the town quest, and my party finally got those gold pieces.
I now have 24 Gold in all. That should translate to 24,000 Copper, right? Adding the smaller coins that should be enough to buy four Plate Mail, but none of my guys are strong enough to wear plate.

So what should I spend money on?
I know I can buy more skills at the training hall, but can I buy stats too?
Or is the money best spend on improving magic items, when I get 50 gold? Only ones I have so far is the Broadsword +2, two Ring Mail +1 and a Vial +1. BTW, how excactly does the Vial work as a Shield? Is it affected by Shield skill? Breakable by axes?

I also met with the leader of the Thieves Guild in the Rusty Nail. First time I entered a dungeon and I blundered about, and the bastards attacked me. Was it because I didn't buy them another round of drinks?
Anyway, I reloaded and this time they didn't attack, and the guild leader told about the old guild hall in the ruins. Sounds like a vast area, since it's 14 blocks from the entrance.

There are also rumours about a laboratory to the NW and Orcs in the woods to the East.
Not sure where to go next. I guess the Ruins are too tough. Orcs sound more manageable.

EDIT: Weird, but now all the keypad keys work. That should speed up combat.

 

[Zombra]

I don't remember anything about the economy in that game. All the best gear is found.

No fighters with 16 Strength? You ARE a lunatic!

 

[DaveO]

You can't use defensive potions as shields, they do give bonuses against damage types. That was why I gave them to my Priests so that the Luck skill combined with extra damage protection was a better option than developing the Shield skill. You are better off saving money on enchanting items. The training hall can improve all skills to 100, but you use up time. You might be able to get a few sessions of training in before another day rolls over, but you're likely better off looking around for fights for the experience. I did the skill training after I beat Tarmon.

 

[octavius]

So, it seems The Laboratory was just a place to make potions (I guess I have to work up the Alchemy skill first, though), and the rumour of Orcs in the east woods seems to be a red herring, so nothing else to do than head for those ruins, I guess.
Can areas in the ruind be "cleared", or do you face random encounters all the time?

 

[Luzur]

So, it seems The Laboratory was just a place to make potions (I guess I have to work up the Alchemy skill first, though), and the rumour of Orcs in the east woods seems to be a red herring, so nothing else to do than head for those ruins, I guess.
Can areas in the ruind be "cleared", or do you face random encounters all the time?

if i remember correctly random encounters are there all the time, but its been close to 20 years since i played it, so..*shrugs*

 

[Zombra]

Can areas in the ruind be "cleared", or do you face random encounters all the time?

if i remember correctly random encounters are there all the time, but its been close to 20 years since i played it, so..*shrugs*

Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing, but I wasn't quite sure either. I do know that it gets to the point where you can quick combat the low level areas with zero risk.

 

[Luzur]

Can areas in the ruind be "cleared", or do you face random encounters all the time?

if i remember correctly random encounters are there all the time, but its been close to 20 years since i played it, so..*shrugs*

Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing, but I wasn't quite sure either. I do know that it gets to the point where you can quick combat the low level areas with zero risk.

yeah theres also that, but that depends if the PC figures out that the enemy stand zero chance against you.

 

[octavius]

So far I've only done quick combat against Thugs.
I finally ventured into the ruins and encountered some orcs. I cast a triple Bless so they had problems hitting, but one of them killed my best fighter with 40 Life in one hit! Still managed to beat the little buggerers, but they were nastier than I thought. Looks like I have to grind a bit against the Brigands on the north road...

Enemies with shields are annoying. Unless I can get them from the weapon side or behind it looks they have a 95% chance of deflecting my attacks.
I'm really looking forward to when my mages can start casting Fireballs!

 

[Zombra]

So far I've only done quick combat against Thugs.

Yeah. It will get to the point with just about everything ... soon you'll be like, orcs? QC. Don't be afraid to experiment with it as long as you're beating them easily in turn-based. Will save you a lot of grinding.

Enemies with shields are annoying. Unless I can get them from the weapon side or behind it looks they have a 95% chance of deflecting my attacks.

I'm telling you man, axes and flails. I bet your sword guy is crying like a baby when he sees those shields.

I'm really looking forward to when my mages can start casting Fireballs!

Staple spell of mid-late game. That and Lightning Bolt. Pump up that Power!

 

[Luzur]

So far I've only done quick combat against Thugs.
I finally ventured into the ruins and encountered some orcs. I cast a triple Bless so they had problems hitting, but one of them killed my best fighter with 40 Life in one hit! Still managed to beat the little buggerers, but they were nastier than I thought. Looks like I have to grind a bit against the Brigands on the north road...

Enemies with shields are annoying. Unless I can get them from the weapon side or behind it looks they have a 95% chance of deflecting my attacks.
I'm really looking forward to when my mages can start casting Fireballs!

yeah you rather dont go into the city until atleast level 10 (think it was?) or so, it gets harder the closer to the castle you get, grind in the woods and suburbs.

 

[octavius]

The combat is so slow and it takes so incredibly many hits to kill even lowlife like rats, feral dogs and orcs, that I've started to save state before any combat, then choose quick combat, and if the party dies I do it manually instead.
And it's not just a pack of feral dogs, oh no it has to be something more tedious like 22 feral dogs...

 

[Zombra]

Yeah. I got excited when I saw this thread and even thought about replaying the game, but I just don't have the time or patience for it any more.

 

[octavius]

BTW, how does targeting work?
Do you just target anything and then automatically hit next round? The program doesn't keep track of which enemy is being targeted, so it seems a bit silly.

 

[Jaesun]

So someone should do a mod of this in FRUA. Problem solved.

 

[Zombra]

BTW, how does targeting work?
Do you just target anything and then automatically hit next round? The program doesn't keep track of which enemy is being targeted, so it seems a bit silly.

"Aim at Target"? It gives you a huge bonus to hit that target next turn as well as extra damage.

I didn't remember that by the way, I just looked it up.

 

[octavius]

All the options and attention to detail becomes rather wasted when there is so little visual feedback, and you can't even check if an enemy is Engaged or not. And also when you start choosing Quick Combat more often than not.

BTW, how does targeting work?
Do you just target anything and then automatically hit next round? The program doesn't keep track of which enemy is being targeted, so it seems a bit silly.

"Aim at Target"? It gives you a huge bonus to hit that target next turn as well as extra damage.

I didn't remember that by the way, I just looked it up.

Yes, but does it have to be the same target? How the hell do you keep track of 22 little hivers yappers snarling at you? When you attack the turn after aiming the program does not center on the enemy you targeted.

 

[Zombra]

Yep, same target. It's not really something you can use for the whole party.

 

[Fatty]

The combat is so slow and it takes so incredibly many hits to kill even lowlife like rats, feral dogs and orcs, that I've started to save state before any combat, then choose quick combat, and if the party dies I do it manually instead.
And it's not just a pack of feral dogs, oh no it has to be something more tedious like 22 feral dogs...

I almost feel like I should shadow you to see just what the heck is taking you so long. I mean yes, combat in this game takes longer to resolve than anything else I can think of but that's a big part of the reason I love it. In fact every goddamn time someone starts or bumps a thread on Wizard's Crown I am forced to stop what I am playing and start a new WC campaign. And I was making reasonable progress in Lazarus...

Ya the targeting is retarded. There's plenty of ways you could "modernize" it without breaking what it is but its never bothered me much.

So someone should do a mod of this in FRUA. Problem solved.

I don't know much about FRUA, but keep D&D away from my Wizard's Crown

 

[Deuce Traveler]

The starting party does indeed seem to start off with more skill points than a party you generate on your own. I still dumped them all and created a new party based on @Zombras advice. Right now I have the following characters:

You're playing Wizard's Crown too? Cool!

I've been meaning to play Wizard's Crown in order to keep up with you, since I always felt it's more fun to tackle these older games with others, but I don't think I'm going to be able to keep up with you as my real-life schedule is starting to get booked. I haven't really gotten past tweaking characters in the party selection window. These are my most recent thoughts:

1. Fighter w/ Axe for front lines
2. Fighter w/ Sword for front lines
3. Fighter w/ Flail for front lines
4. Ranger w/ Spear for Sneak and Stealth
5. Thief-Ranger w/ Bow for trap springing and treasure hunting skills
6. Priest-Fighter w/ Mace for Healing
7. Sorcerer
8. Sorcerer

I was going to go with no dual-classes at all, but then the thief and priest would have no real combat abilities. At least with a thief-ranger, the thief can fire a bow and stay in the back. I was thinking of going with a straight priest and making him a kung-fu monk, but unarmed combat does such a small amount of damage (STR/4) that it isn't even worthy of the attempt.

 

[octavius]

I think having only one Priest will hurt.
Having several guys being able to Heal, Bless or Turn Undead in one round can be a life saver.
Also, single class sorcerors will be rather useless in the beginning. If you spend an extra 3 points on Int you could at least make them Rangers and have them plonk arrows in battle.

Just defeated a bunch of rats in the ruins. Must have been Pack Rats:

This is by far the best loot I've found so far.
I really like the fact that ecery battle could potentially turn up something useful.

 

[Zombra]

Wow DT, ONE Priest? That's either very brave or very foolish ... probably very foolish. You better make damn sure his ass never gets knocked out. Which includes never fighting anything with spells or ranged weapons

And a pure Ranger is a waste of 2 stat points. You can do it if you want for concept, but it seems crazy.

octavius is right that your Sorcs will be dead weight early ... but if you can survive I think it will be worth it

Yeahhhhh octavius, seeing all those asterisks on a loot screen is what WC is all about. I'm even excited to see that CROWN, good $ to be had!

 

[octavius]

What the fuck is up with Orcs and Giant Rats just killing my Fighter with no wounds and 40 Life Force in one hit?!?!?

 

[Flux_Capacitor]

Two priests is a bare minimum; three is better. Karma (priests' spell points) are used up very quickly, even when you are maxed out at 250. Add to that the fact you're probably going to need Treat Poison fairly early, and your single priest isn't going to have much Karma to heal for a while. Sure, later you can rest in a temple to restore up to half maximum, but the final dungeon isn't anywhere near a temple.

Reading this thread has caused me to play this again. Here's my party:

Fighter/Priest - Sword
Fighter/Priest - Mace
Fighter/Thief - Flail, haggler
Fighter/Thief - Axe, misc thief skills
Ranger/Thief - Bow, primary scout
Ranger/Priest - Spear
Ranger/Sorcerer - Bow, secondary and utility caster
Sorcerer - Main caster

I've cleaned up the city, and have just started quick trips into the ruins. I remember buying the boxed copy of this for my Apple II. I think I still have it somewhere.