KickStarter ATOM RPG - Wasteland Soviet style! - now with Dead City update

[flushfire]

IMO it's better to do it the Witcher way, give the player starting bonuses/items that aren't too game changing, based on what the save had. Have everyone start at the same level of experience, easily explained away by 'side-effect of the mysterious serum' or some shit like that.

Level them up or down, I doubt anyone would feel bad about losing the levels for a more balanced game.

 

[Saduj]

However, if you start the game at say LVL 21+ you'll get a "multiclass" option available. It will make you level 1 again, but will let you keep all the perks, skills, stats and whatever you had. So now you will be able to pursue a different perk tree branch, and be entertained.

If you keep the perks and the skills, what do you lose, just HP? Doesn't sound too bad.

Another thing to do would just be to nerf everyone back to level 10 and balance things from there. Let them keep attributes, gear and distinctions. Make them redistribute skill points and perks based on level 10.

 

[Sòren]

Seriously? I'll have to check that. I never told nobody to switch the AK if you managed to somehow hide it away. That's bizarre.

i thought it was pretty clever. correct me if i'm wrong though. even if i'm drunk, i don't tend to make up stories (at least not stories that i start to believe myself), so i'm pretty sure that's what happened.

 

[Sòren]

I truly believe it doesn't have to be level scaling. We actually have a plan how to make the game fun for both small levels and large levels without level scaling. It's codenamed "Multiclass". A rough description of it would be: the first part (early locations) of Trudograd will be made for people of level 18+ (the average level at which the game is finished according to stats we have from players and testers) slowly growing to be hard for 30+ people. However, if you start the game at say LVL 21+ you'll get a "multiclass" option available. It will make you level 1 again, but will let you keep all the perks, skills, stats and whatever you had. So now you will be able to pursue a different perk tree branch, and be entertained.
This idea works well in our heads, but if the 21+ lvl player won't choose multiclass, the game will be a cake walk for him.

Do you guys have any funky ideas? Or criticisms of that multiclass idea?

maybe you shouldn't try to make the addon fun for both low and high level pcs. even if you include the multi class option, it sounds like the game will be too easy for high level pcs. so maybe design it with high level pcs in mind in the first place? Mask of The Betrayer - one of the best addons i'm aware off - gave you the options to either import or restart the game with a lvl 15 (or something around that, a level that wasn't far away from the one that most players tend to finish the maingame) character. i couldn't complain about challenge in combat or about too low skill checks - and it was pretty successful.

but i really don't know. such thoughts are something i'm paying you for, you bum.

 

[flushfire]

MotB became quite easy if you import fully crafted gear. There's maybe a couple of fights where you had to actually pause, but most of it was auto-pilot.

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

I say just make it really hard. When people complain about the difficulty just tell them to “git gud”.

 

[PsychoFox]

How'd I do with this build? Will that endurance bite me in the ass?
https://imgur.com/a/W5ultrr

 

[norolim]

When people complain about the difficulty just tell them to “git gud”.

In this day and age, they'll just refund the game, claiming it doesn't work.

 

[RK47]

Those are really cool ideas for expansion.
Though I have to say, perhaps giving the player a level 4 start is way more predictable and easier to balance.

Imports sound cool and all but does the narrative even acknowledge what you've accomplished? E.g Fate of Krasno, Otradnoye, Dan's Gang, Peregon.

Multiclass sounds cool - but you can't balance around those - it's a nice feature to have - but try not to worry about 'is this OP' or not. We all know combining Quick Reflex with Max Shield bonuses is already strong, adding anything else to that is just more cheese. What I'd suggest is adding more interesting ways to play. Like Barter being used to bribe encounters away. Sneaking + Survival to set up ambushes. Technology + Crafting to repair rusty weapons.

 

[flushfire]

How'd I do with this build? Will that endurance bite me in the ass?
https://imgur.com/a/W5ultrr

It's better to leave END at even numbers since the HP/level formula seems to be 1+END/2. Some of the harder fights require you to tank the first few hits but those can be skipped with very high Luck iirc so the game's manageable with just 2 END I guess. I don't see the reason for it though, because:

Spoiler

6 STR is ideal to start, because you get an endgame helm with +1, and the gym bonus lasts long enough. 8 is all you will ever need, any checks beyond that can be easily passed with stims. Early checks you can pass with coffee, but there really aren't any significant ones you can't pass with some other stat/skill.

6 PER (male) is enough to get every possible check with 2x Joints and 2x Cologne.

7 ATT is enough to get almost all checks, although there may be hidden ones, I haven't read anything significant. Even 6 is good enough for most. Any effect it has on ranged accuracy can be easily made up with skill.

Less than 6 END isn't good enough to satisfy women

You get 3 free points you can put anywhere, END and INT aren't ideal stats to use them on because hp and sp gain aren't retroactive.

 

[norolim]

In all seriousness though, this is a great idea:

Maybe you could have an additional starting location?

It's more work for the devs, but it's so incline. Make two starting locations: 1 for the underachievers with a steep experience curve and 2 for all the others with an almost flat curve. Make it a prologue, max 2 hours of content and make the two paths meet right before the main story arc starts.

 

[Optimist]

Do you guys have any funky ideas? Or criticisms of that multiclass idea?

Maybe add an NPC who'll help the MC get through the beginnings, should you create a fresh character/ load one with too low a level? He could also serve as a lore dispenser for new players, as well as a flag-setter (like Atton talking with Exile at the beginning of KotOR 2 - by answering to his questions, the player informs the game about C&C from the previous game).

I honestly can't see what the drawback of 'multiclassing' be, I'm keeping all my stats/skills, but get to level up at an increased pace, due to low XP costs?

 

[PsychoFox]

How'd I do with this build? Will that endurance bite me in the ass?
https://imgur.com/a/W5ultrr

It's better to leave END at even numbers since the HP/level formula seems to be 1+END/2. Some of the harder fights require you to tank the first few hits but those can be skipped with very high Luck iirc so the game's manageable with just 2 END I guess. I don't see the reason for it though, because:

Spoiler

6 STR is ideal to start, because you get an endgame helm with +1, and the gym bonus lasts long enough. 8 is all you will ever need, any checks beyond that can be easily passed with stims. Early checks you can pass with coffee, but there really aren't any significant ones you can't pass with some other stat/skill.

6 PER (male) is enough to get every possible check with 2x Joints and 2x Cologne.

7 ATT is enough to get almost all checks, although there may be hidden ones, I haven't read anything significant. Even 6 is good enough for most. Any effect it has on ranged accuracy can be easily made up with skill.

Less than 6 END isn't good enough to satisfy women

You get 3 free points you can put anywhere, END and INT aren't ideal stats to use them on because hp and sp gain aren't retroactive.

Thanks for the info! I think i'll just put the bonus point into End for a max of 2. It's been working out really well so far. Breezing through the early game.

 

[Ninjerk]

In all seriousness though, this is a great idea:

Maybe you could have an additional starting location?

It's more work for the devs, but it's so incline. Make two starting locations: 1 for the underachievers with a steep experience curve and 2 for all the others with an almost flat curve. Make it a prologue, max 2 hours of content and make the two paths meet right before the main story arc starts.

It needn't necessarily be more work. Imagine one of the alternate starting locations is locked to higher level players somehow at the beginning, but eventually becomes available later. It has enough experience and other resources in it to bring lower leveled players up to speed and ends up folded into the play experience for the higher level players as an area they can basically mop up quickly for an appropriate amount of experience. It's difficult for me to talk about it in more detail not having played ATOM yet (although I certainly will given the praise I've seen here).

 

[Parabalus]

Just reset the imported character to lvl 1, give him enough XP to reach lvl 18 (or w/e), but let him keep earned distinctions.

That's a lot of free attribute points for those who played the main game, but the game balanced.

Cool bit in the new Krasno catacombs, you can

Spoiler

Blow up the Dark Goat statue (explosives)

and find a great magic amulet and 500 XP.

 

[RK47]

Hey, come to think of it you brought up mutations a number of times in game but never really inflict those on the player. Not even a companion that is a mutant with a unique ability.
How about a distinction revolving mutations?

Check out that Black Isle game called Lionheart - it's got a decent idea, but bad execution.
Mutant arm: You have a really deadly arm that is a melee weapon (improves every level up) - but the downside is you cannot equip 2-Handed Weapons.
Venom blood: Something's wrong with your body. Healing items restore 50% less - but every time someone hits you in melee they take 2-4 irresistible poison damage. +50% Poison Resistance
Mastermind: You influence people close to you easily - allowing you to control your companions directly in battle - however, the high amount of concentration required cripples your initiative, you will always move last.

 

[razvedchiki]

i dont like this multiclass system,im more of a dual class autist entepreneur.
comrade atom boy,why dont you make a survey to see at what lvl most players end the game and balance the game around that.

 

[PsychoFox]

Atomboy regarding the multiclass thingy... i for one will not be using that system - because it makes no goddarned sense for my char to suddenly lose all their perks - and frankly, i don't want to. I would like to take my high level character into the new campaign and face challenges appropriate to my level. I would also like to get a bunch of new toys (specially weapons) to play with, otherwise the combat experience is going to be boring.

So I think you should make it so different characters will face different challenges (enemies, skill checks etc.) depending on their level. I don't mean dynamic level scaling either. I mean a carefully balanced experienced designed for players of different levels. So not dynamic level scaling, but level scaling based on character level thresholds. For example people who start at level 1 will face a different difficulty curve than those going in with a level 20. At any rate, the game should not be easy for an imported character if they don't want to go down this multiclass path. TBH i think this is a shoddy idea that should go back to the drawing board. I mean... Atom RPG doesn't even have classes to begin with...

Regarding base game (Atom RPG). When will the updates stop coming through? Can you confirm that Atom RPG - Deluxe Edition will be the latest version released? I'm asking because of limited bandwidth and all that. I'll gladly support this game buy buying the deluxe version, but i really don't want to keep having to download new versions and updates.

 

[Bergblatstein]

Will defiinitively be getting the Deluxe, you guys earned it!

I truly believe it doesn't have to be level scaling. We actually have a plan how to make the game fun for both small levels and large levels without level scaling. It's codenamed "Multiclass". A rough description of it would be: the first part (early locations) of Trudograd will be made for people of level 18+ (the average level at which the game is finished according to stats we have from players and testers) slowly growing to be hard for 30+ people. However, if you start the game at say LVL 21+ you'll get a "multiclass" option available. It will make you level 1 again, but will let you keep all the perks, skills, stats and whatever you had. So now you will be able to pursue a different perk tree branch, and be entertained.
This idea works well in our heads, but if the 21+ lvl player won't choose multiclass, the game will be a cake walk for him.

Do you guys have any funky ideas? Or criticisms of that multiclass idea?

Im not sure i understand this multiclass variant.
So...for a 21+ lvl character who multiclasses and keeps all perks,stats,skills but now he levels from level 1 again but on a diffrent EXP scale or?
Couse if it is the same scale he will get back to high levels more quickly and i dont see how this circumvents the cake walk you were trying to avoid.

so I guess it will be big. Not 15 bucks big like the original game, but still big.

Combining this with the problem above why not simply offer 3 options at character creation:

1. You are a newcomer to the area... (start at level 1, the socialist challange!)
2. You are TRUEdograd born... (start at level 18, as the game is balanced for.)
3. You come from the East...ern-most southern tip of North-Western mountains (import character for fun or no-fun depending on how much above 18 lvl you are.)

 

[Sòren]

MotB became quite easy if you import fully crafted gear. There's maybe a couple of fights where you had to actually pause, but most of it was auto-pilot.

might be. i don't remember very well tbh.

 

[Atomboy]

See, that's a question that keeps me up and nights! Prolly 18... Logic tells me this. But my own inner player says it sucks to just get handed bonuses, so I want level 1

If intro for that adventure makes it clear that it is for experienced player character, then level 1 start won't be necessary.
There are some settings where starting from level 1 doesn't fit at all; Tyranny for example.

True! The setting will be aimed at an experienced player, you'll get a starter cinematic about your past and shiet. If you're a new player, you'll get masseffected into making choices from the first game as if you played it.

1. Most of the times, however some places require it, and we'll have more of those in Trudograd, since there will be more tech in it.
2. Yeah, one more dialogue branch that gives EXP and moneys.
3. What do you mean? Like, his character? Well, he is a bit of a pushover and is chaotic good. Or his skills? Cuz Fidel can be pretty baddass after getting a level or two!

I know second part pretty well. Once I gave Fidel heavy machine gun and he turned my whole team into swiss cheese. :D I'm complaiming more about his character especially behavior in Krasno and his inability to shot Mycelium even when it clearly obvious they're crazy and evil.

Well what can you do, the man is a champion of good!

Make difficulty siuted for a certain level of character (25 for example), and lvlup imported characters of lesser level to it. It was done that way in MoTB, IIRC

I like this one! Though all ideas go to the guys.

i dont like this multiclass system,im more of a dual class autist entepreneur.
comrade atom boy,why dont you make a survey to see at what lvl most players end the game and balance the game around that.

Well, we already kinda have this data, from testers, steam and stuff. A guy keeps records. But there are always outliers!

Atomboy regarding the multiclass thingy... i for one will not be using that system - because it makes no goddarned sense for my char to suddenly lose all their perks - and frankly, i don't want to. I would like to take my high level character into the new campaign and face challenges appropriate to my level. I would also like to get a bunch of new toys (specially weapons) to play with, otherwise the combat experience is going to be boring.

So I think you should make it so different characters will face different challenges (enemies, skill checks etc.) depending on their level. I don't mean dynamic level scaling either. I mean a carefully balanced experienced designed for players of different levels. So not dynamic level scaling, but level scaling based on character level thresholds. For example people who start at level 1 will face a different difficulty curve than those going in with a level 20. At any rate, the game should not be easy for an imported character if they don't want to go down this multiclass path. TBH i think this is a shoddy idea that should go back to the drawing board. I mean... Atom RPG doesn't even have classes to begin with...

Regarding base game (Atom RPG). When will the updates stop coming through? Can you confirm that Atom RPG - Deluxe Edition will be the latest version released? I'm asking because of limited bandwidth and all that. I'll gladly support this game buy buying the deluxe version, but i really don't want to keep having to download new versions and updates.

Hi! No no! The multiclass idea ONLY makes you lose your level and level earned HP, not anything else. But I get what you're saying. Hopefully we'll balance it out. See, the thing is, we're done with content. But if someone finds a bug 10 years from now, we'll have to make a patch We can't just leave the game and stop supporting it. However, content-wise it stopped two updates ago! We're just fixing what was already in it.

Will defiinitively be getting the Deluxe, you guys earned it!

I truly believe it doesn't have to be level scaling. We actually have a plan how to make the game fun for both small levels and large levels without level scaling. It's codenamed "Multiclass". A rough description of it would be: the first part (early locations) of Trudograd will be made for people of level 18+ (the average level at which the game is finished according to stats we have from players and testers) slowly growing to be hard for 30+ people. However, if you start the game at say LVL 21+ you'll get a "multiclass" option available. It will make you level 1 again, but will let you keep all the perks, skills, stats and whatever you had. So now you will be able to pursue a different perk tree branch, and be entertained.
This idea works well in our heads, but if the 21+ lvl player won't choose multiclass, the game will be a cake walk for him.

Do you guys have any funky ideas? Or criticisms of that multiclass idea?

Im not sure i understand this multiclass variant.
So...for a 21+ lvl character who multiclasses and keeps all perks,stats,skills but now he levels from level 1 again but on a diffrent EXP scale or?
Couse if it is the same scale he will get back to high levels more quickly and i dont see how this circumvents the cake walk you were trying to avoid.

so I guess it will be big. Not 15 bucks big like the original game, but still big.

Combining this with the problem above why not simply offer 3 options at character creation:

1. You are a newcomer to the area... (start at level 1, the socialist challange!)
2. You are TRUEdograd born... (start at level 18, as the game is balanced for.)
3. You come from the East...ern-most southern tip of North-Western mountains (import character for fun or no-fun depending on how much above 18 lvl you are.)

While I like the idea, you'll always play your char from Atom 1. Even if you didn't play Atom 1 you'll be told the history of Atom and told you are the guy who did this and that.

Hey, come to think of it you brought up mutations a number of times in game but never really inflict those on the player. Not even a companion that is a mutant with a unique ability.
How about a distinction revolving mutations?

Check out that Black Isle game called Lionheart - it's got a decent idea, but bad execution.
Mutant arm: You have a really deadly arm that is a melee weapon (improves every level up) - but the downside is you cannot equip 2-Handed Weapons.
Venom blood: Something's wrong with your body. Healing items restore 50% less - but every time someone hits you in melee they take 2-4 irresistible poison damage. +50% Poison Resistance
Mastermind: You influence people close to you easily - allowing you to control your companions directly in battle - however, the high amount of concentration required cripples your initiative, you will always move last.

That's a very nice idea!

Just reset the imported character to lvl 1, give him enough XP to reach lvl 18 (or w/e), but let him keep earned distinctions.

That's a lot of free attribute points for those who played the main game, but the game balanced.

Cool bit in the new Krasno catacombs, you can

Spoiler

Blow up the Dark Goat statue (explosives)

and find a great magic amulet and 500 XP.

Yeah, we thought about respec too. But on the other hand, if you're carrying a save, you might wanna be that same guy...

We even thought of the got hit by a rock idea :D



Thank you very much guys, everything is copypasted into a suggestions file.

 

[Atomboy]

Santa Maria! We did it!

Spoiler

Hello, guys!
It's time to release the latest patch for the game. It contains fixes for all the bugs found in the game.

Now, the changelog:

• Fixed the bug when your companions would just freeze up and don’t respond to your commands;
  
• The mechanics of using grenades are reworked for AI;
  
• Your companions now use only the equipped throwing weapons;
  
• Now your animation change the higher you are in the Martial Arts skill;
  
• Fixed the ability “Flea Waltz” for Dzhulbars;
  
• Fixed the quest of the militiaman Kadushkin in Krasnoznamenny;
  
• Removed the ability to farm EXP in the Dead City (Killdozer);
  
• A lot of minor and not so minor fixes in the "Safe journey" farm;
  
• A lot of fixes for the final battle in the Dead City;
  
• Fixed the exploit that could give you infinite amount of throwing weapons;
  
• The “Witness” now can be finished correctly;
  
• A lot of minor fixes in the Red Fighter village;
  
• A lot of minor fixes in the Dan’s Factory;
  
• Added Grass Bending;
  
• Two new weapons: VSSM and Saiga-A.

Also, we are releasing a special Supporter Pack for those of you who wished to donate to our crew. This version contains two new items (a Kikimora camo suit and a new knife), the remastered stand-alone Soundtrack and HD Wallpapers.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1093400/ATOM_RPG__Supporter_Pack/

 

[Sloul]

Is it possible that your character start the game intoxicated by something? And thus would have lowered stats, and would need to find a cure to fix its stats? Thus making it weaker, while retaining its levels/xp/skills etc.?
Are cybernetic implants out of the question? It would allow for a parallel layer of progression, making your stats/levels etc. just half of your character prowess.

 

[Alienman]

Some really good looking wallpaper art in that dlc.

'Locator', and 'Meeting the reality' is my fav. Tell the art guy he did a good job.

 

[PsychoFox]

Deluxe Edition coming for GOG version?