Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[oldmanpaco]

Is it still a baby's first RPG with a 4 person party?

damn baby's first RPG with 4 person parties

Holy shit they turned BG3 into a twitch blobber! Those madmen!

Man I reeeeeeealy have not been following along closely enough.

Dig the early 90's retro look though!

fake edit: Although I bet that was a lot of kids first RPG.

 

[Desiderius]

Even funnier that Solasta seems to conflate pragmatism with "good"

Pretty sure all tags on the middle are neutral. so 2 for good 2 for evil 2 chaos 2 neutral/neutral. DuH

Caution is evil? Like relaxing around some racesancestries?

I'm gonna be honest, tying those tags to the alignment feels really tacked on. There were no hints that they somehow related to the alignment even in the latest EA release, tags were just listed in order - so this shit was added together with the pronouns.
Which reinforces my point about alignment being unnecessary. Is "violence [evil]" better than "violence", if no substance beneath the name is changed?

Pragmatism and caution are both associated with the neutral alignments --- not just true neutral but the other four that are neutral on one axis only.

Kindness and altruism are associated with all three good alignments, greed and violence with all three evil alignments, lawfulness and authority with all three lawful alignments, and egoism and cynicism with all three chaotic alignments.

Note that a character's background also offers a few choices for personality traits, so that, for example, someone who is not evil could still choose greed via a background of lowlife, spy, or academic.

It’s a good system, especially in concert with the backgrounds.

 

[Humanophage]

Then there's Varg Vikernes' take on alignment:

In MYFAROG there is a rather complex alignment system. You are not "good" or "evil", but either contemplative or ecstatic; harmonic or disharmonic; spiritual or materialistic; sympathetic or unsympathetic; or neutral to all of these factors, which in MYFAROG are called attitudes.

The contemplative is intellectual, introvert and likes to meditate, think or pray. The ecstatic on the other hand is more extrovert and likes wild dancing, gorging, and other excitement, and is inclined to screaming and shouting or violence and combat. The harmonic is calm, peace seeking, balanced and conflict solving; he thinks things through before he acts. The disharmonic on the other hand is more hysterical, unbalanced, emotional and conflict seeking. “Dog does not eat dog.” The spiritual always thinks about the consequences of his actions on a spiritual level and believes in a life or at least some form of existence after death. The materialistic on the other hand only thinks about the consequences he will face in life. He might still believe in a life after death, but even if he does this belief hardly influences his actions in life. The sympathetic is considerate, altruistic, kind and empathic. The unsympathetic is more ruthless, egotistical and merciless.

This sounds a fair deal like Big-5:
contemplative-ecstatic = low-high extraversion
harmonic-disharmonic = low-high neuroticism
spiritual-materialistic = ...
unsympathetic-sympathetic = low-high agreeableness

Misses low-high Openness and low-high Conscientiousness, which are both related to religiosity though.

 

[Desiderius]

Hence the loyalty oath.

 

[Harthwain]

I'm gonna be honest, tying those tags to the alignment feels really tacked on. There were no hints that they somehow related to the alignment even in the latest EA release, tags were just listed in order - so this shit was added together with the pronouns. Which reinforces my point about alignment being unnecessary. Is "violence [evil]" better than "violence", if no substance beneath the name is changed?

I think the idea is that a genuinely good character tries to avoid violence whenever possible.

Pragmatism and caution are both associated with the neutral alignments --- not just true neutral but the other four that are neutral on one axis only.

Spoiler

Kindness and altruism are associated with all three good alignments, greed and violence with all three evil alignments, lawfulness and authority with all three lawful alignments, and egoism and cynicism with all three chaotic alignments.

Note that a character's background also offers a few choices for personality traits, so that, for example, someone who is not evil could still choose greed via a background of lowlife, spy, or academic.

It puzzled me a bit, because it is possible to pick personality flags that are at opposite ends of the spectrum (kindness and violence, for example. Or lawfulness and egoism). Then again, the argument could be made that none of these flags are excluding the others.

 

[Cryomancer]

On this thread, from 380 pages, how many :

• Pages dedicated to complain about hp bloat?
• to complain about surface effects?
• About Astarion?
• About other companions?
• About the epic story for a ultra low level "dungeons & kobolds" game?
• Comparisons with Wrath and KoTC2
• Larian cultists and larian haters shitposting.
• (...)

IF we sum all of this discussions, can we reach half of the amount of things non related to BG3? Infiltration could rename this thread to general shitposting thread(previous BG3 thread)

 

[Desiderius]

If the game's shit (so far) then the posts about it would be shitpoasting as well.

I wouldn't go that far but I have hopes that we haven't seen the best of it yet.

 

[Harthwain]

At thwe countrary 5th edition brought a lot more of narrative play on the table thanks for the lack of allingment adventurers are more keen to do investigation to find who has ill intentions rather than "hey i casted detect evil on him so it must be up to ill intent m'kay?". It adds a lot of new dynamism on the table allignment create static gamey mechanics must be a paladin so must be good. Well not anymore. Paladin's now are different and there is also the Oathbreaker.

I would try to build up on what Solasta is trying to do, because it fits cRPGs and encourages having mixed party alignments. If you throw in some sort of "party internal discussion" (akin to what D:OS 1 tried to do, with its rock-paper-scissors mechanic) it could be an interesting way of settling disputes between different personalities. The upside would be having more options with a mixed party. The downside would be that the outcome may not be to your liking. And if you pick a monolithic party, then you lack some options, but are guaranteed the others.

On this thread, from 380 pages, how many :

• Pages dedicated to complain about hp bloat?
• to complain about surface effects?
• About Astarion?
• About other companions?
• About the epic story for a ultra low level "dungeons & kobolds" game?
• Comparisons with Wrath and KoTC2
• Larian cultists and larian haters shitposting.
• (...)

IF we sum all of this discussions, can we reach half of the amount of things non related to BG3? Infiltration could rename this thread to general shitposting thread(previous BG3 thread)

I would add one more to the list:

• How many of the above were initiated by YOU?

And I will answer right away: ALL of them.

So what are you trying to prove exactly? That you are a shitposter?

 

[HoboForEternity]

So solasta pretty much shit all over this multi million dollar game?

 

[gurugeorge]

I think it was serious decline when disparate intra-party alignments ceased to matter in modern CRPGs. It ought to be a "three strikes then you're out" type of thing - after a few increasingly insistent warnings, one too many farmers' lambs saved and the evil guy goes, one too many villagers randomly beaten up, and the good guy leaves. That's how it should be.

 

[Nortar]

The psyche of an individual is far more complex than some words on a piece of paper.

By rebelling against the creation of classification and structured categorization, against order basically, you show that your alignment is chaotic.
But you're guided not by malice, but a desire for betterment (as you see it, at least) of your chosen hobby, so you're not evil.
And the fact that you care enough to go out of your way and bring people to your way of thinking, you're not completely neutral.
You're CG, Mebrilia, congrats!

 

[Cryomancer]

• How many of the above were initiated by YOU?

And I will answer right away: ALL of them.

I din't initiated this points. Searched about the spider and 138 hp and ... https://rpgcodex.net/forums/search/146575528/?q=spider+138&o=date&c[node]=107

A level 4 spider with 138(!) hp because they want to force you to use ~environmental effects~ to beat it. Fuck you Swen, this isn't D&D.

I an pretty sure that this hp would be something like the hp of a Lolth's Avatar on 2E... If even a "disciple of Sawyer thinks that the game has a problem with hp bloat is because the game has a problem with hp bloat.

edit : Here is Lacrymas mentioning firebolt spam and surface effects > https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...-on-early-access.135311/page-227#post-7081140

 

[NJClaw]

A level 4 spider with 138(!) hp because they want to force you to use ~environmental effects~ to beat it. Fuck you Swen, this isn't D&D.

I an pretty sure that this hp would be something like the hp of a Lolth's Avatar on 2E... If even a "disciple of Sawyer thinks that the game has a problem with hp bloat is because the game has a problem with hp bloat.

Ah yes, the good old "I don't know what I'm talking about but I'm going to talk about it anyway", what a pro move from Roguey.

138 HP for a CR 4 are on the very-high side, but if the creature has a low AC it's perfectly within this edition's limits. A weretiger is a CR 4 monster with 120 HP and immunity to non-magical damage. They want to force you to use ~environmental effects~ to beat it. Fuck you D&D, this isn't D&D.

 

[Cryomancer]

A level 4 spider with 138(!) hp because they want to force you to use ~environmental effects~ to beat it. Fuck you Swen, this isn't D&D.

I an pretty sure that this hp would be something like the hp of a Lolth's Avatar on 2E... If even a "disciple of Sawyer thinks that the game has a problem with hp bloat is because the game has a problem with hp bloat.

Ah yes, the good old "I don't know what I'm talking about but I'm going to talk about it anyway", what a pro move from Roguey.

138 HP for a CR 4 are on the very-high side, but if the creature has a low AC it's perfectly within this edition's limits. A weretiger is a CR 4 monster with 120 HP and immunity to non-magical damage. They want to force you to use ~environmental effects~ to beat it. Fuck you D&D, this isn't D&D.

That is insane. On BG2. You gain in a point of the story, you can once per day, transform yourself into a avatar of the Lord of Murder, it constantly damages you, decreases reputation among other costs but could easy tear mindflayers, beholders, dragons and even liches apart really quickly. It had a amazing 0 THAC0, -4 AC and .... 100 hp. A Freaking ADAMANTITE golem had mere 80 hp.

If we go for the naval combat for 5E rules, a 18-Pound Cannon deals mere 44 (8d10) damage. Meaning that this spider can survive 3 shots from a 18 pound cannon... Part of 5E or not, a spider surviving multiple hits of a weapon capable of destroying most ships in a single hit is just too ludicrous.

 

[Larianshill]

That is insane. On BG2. You gain in a point of the story, you can once per day, transform yourself into a avatar of the Lord of Murder, it constantly damages you, decreases reputation among other costs but could easy tear mindflayers, beholders, dragons and even liches apart really quickly. It had a amazing 0 THAC0, -4 AC and .... 100 hp. A Freaking ADAMANTITE golem had mere 80 hp.

Yes, grandpa, now it's time to go to bed.

 

[Lacrymas]

Even with the slightly higher hp values of 5E, the mobs are still made the party's bitch faster than AD&D because the characters do so much damage. Like it has been pointed out multiple times already, the mobs in the base MM are actually very noticeably easier than their CR would indicate and parties can reliably deal with monsters with a significantly higher CR.

 

[Cryomancer]

Even with the a bit higher hp values of 5E, the mobs are still made the party's bitch faster than AD&D because the characters do so much damage. Like it has been pointed out multiple times already, the mobs in the base MM are actually very noticeably easier than their CR would indicate and parties can reliably deal with monsters with a significantly higher CR.

Yep. They lose a lot of nasty abilities and defenses. But thinking a bit more, I an too used to very high lethality. 5E would't be that popular, if was brutal like older editions. I still remember my first 3E party wipe. I was lv 13. We was investigating swamps, our divination magic failed and we failed on spotting tracks and getting information on the swamp. From the lake, a black swamp dragon emerged from the lake, ate our cleric while we was took by surprise, and before we noticed, we was surrounded by the dragon servants. The dragon quickly dispelled our defenses on the next round and the servants started to attack our unarmored casters. We din't lasted 3 rounds and it was a CR appropriate encounter. Was our fault by being so unprepared and we got unlucky on rolls.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

okay, so according to you, what alignement is jubilost ?

Jubilost's alingment cannot be contained in a bottle.

Is that why he keeps throwing them away?

 

[c u in da ballpit ashren]

Alright I've had my fill of shitting up the other threads with low effort bait. Putting my fedora back on now.

Can someone please explain to me what the actual fuck is so fun about this game compared to D:OS2, which was the "b-but it's fun with friends" simulator? I really hate this new emerging trend of crpgs that weren't very good in single player having multiplayer all of a sudden, like Wasteland 3. This game's going to be the same thing, and this is leaving out the fact that this game isn't Baldur's Gate, it's a D:OS 2 reskin that you retards bought early access at $60 like the braindead troglodytes you are. It also isn't good. Game looks exactly the same as D:OS 2 and that game was just incline after the first hour.

 

[Rieser]

Imagine believing shitting on D:OS 3 in this thread being a novel idea.

 

[Desiderius]

...Emma was just like any other mistress; and the charm of novelty, falling down slowly like a dress, exposed only the eternal monotony of passion, always the same forms and the same language.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2175.Madame_Bovary

 

[Harthwain]

I din't initiated this points.

You underestimate me, for when you were complaining about hp bloat I mastered the art of Search-Fu!

Spoiler

(Read: I can use a search function...)

You have THREE PAGES of "bloat" in this thread. I will repeat: there are THREE PAGES of posts in which the word "bloat" is mentioned. Let that sink in. Now, let's check the earliest result:

BG2 was extremely shallow in its implementation of the PNP rules,

Except that BG2 was an mid to high level adventure with tons of classes and spells. The amount of spells and classes on BG3 is too limited, at least on EA. We don't know if animate dead, fireball, stop time, etc will be in line with P&P. Or even if sorc metamagic will be in line with P&P. Hell, playing the EA, I saw so many ludicrous things. Lv 1 warlock easily killing 3 intellect devourers, an arch druid who is a lv 4 NPC unable to cast tier 3 spells...

And 5e has so many awful things. The optional rule to make maces better vs plate armor? Gone. The Oblivion style HP bloat which makes high level game play(15+) extremely boring,.. Back on 2e, a lv 0 commoner had d4 hit points and a freaking demigod legendary lich called Vecna had 150 hp but even deal 1 pt of damage to him due his immunities, spells, traps, AC, SR, etc; was insanely hard. 2e din't had number bloat.

Is anyone else talking about "hp", "bloat" or "health" on this page, the previous or the next one? No. This is YOU bringing it up! Same goes about complaining about fucking Astarion, spells not being powerful enough or anything else on the list. I know this, because I read YOU bringing it up MULTIPLE TIMES in this thread. You're like a broken record. Or an old man who keeps saying the same shit over and over again. Yes, Swen didn't give us anything fresh. That's not a good reason to. It's dead, Jim!

 

[underground nymph]

Chill man, being hyper annoying is Victor’s ultimate spell. You can avoid it by skipping message completely.

 

[fantadomat]

Chill man, being hyper annoying is Victor’s ultimate spell. You can avoid it by skipping message completely.

You will never be a woman,go for the rope tranny.

 

[Sharpedge]

This thread can be summarized as the following talking points:
• Victor ranting about imaginary HP Bloat.
• Victor ranting about casters, necromancers in particular.
• Victor ranting about caster nerfs.
• Victor ranting about 5e being inferior to 2e.
• Discussions regarding the control scheme.
• Ontopoly doing the standard Ontoporant.
• "Swen" baiting Ontopoly and Victor.
• Discussions about it being D:OS 3.
• Discussions regarding the lack of a day and night cycle.
• Discussions regarding surfaces.
• Discussions regarding rule changes.
• Discussions regarding the discussions looping in circles.

Did I miss anything?

*Apparently I did.
• Lacrymas says something controversial and the thread gets split.
• RTwP vs TB.