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Cain on Games - Tim Cain's new YouTube channel

rojay

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Oct 23, 2015
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Which is more likely: it was standard practice for CEOs like Brian to reprimand individual employees when their actions hurt the bottom line or Brian suddenly decided he wanted to go bad well over a decade in the industry?
Third option: unless Fargo's cunning plan was to get Cain, Boyarsky and Anderson to resign, he fucked up on a management decision.

It's not that he lacked the authority to hold employees responsible, but by using his authority the way he did he lost three valuable employees. That probably wasn't the plan.

I wonder if Fargo faced any repercussions over their departure - like, for example, if it delayed the release of Fallout 2?
 

Roguey

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Third option: unless Fargo's cunning plan was to get Cain, Boyarsky and Anderson to resign, he fucked up on a management decision.

It's not that he lacked the authority to hold employees responsible, but by using his authority the way he did he lost three valuable employees. That probably wasn't the plan.
It was an acceptable loss though. In their hour-long talk, he didn't backpedal. Ultimately their presence at the company wouldn't have saved Interplay. Caused some additional hardship on the Fallout 2 team, but that was all.

I wonder if Fargo faced any repercussions over their departure - like, for example, if it delayed the release of Fallout 2?

It was released in October 1998, so clearly not.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
It's an interesting what-if scenario. If CBA hadn't resigned to found Troika, would they have ended up leaving with Feargus and Avellone a few years later and becoming founding members of Obsidian? Consolized Arcanum as a mid-2000s Obsidian title?
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
What if they made that instead of NWN2? Probably a better timeline, no? Although I'm pretty sure commercially it would have done worse.
 

Butter

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Black Isle probably would've released Fallout 3 before IWD2 ("You have the creators right there and you're letting the IP languish."), saving the company. Bethesda would've had to focus on Elder Scrolls games, and they'd be up to the seventh or eighth mainline entry by this point.
 

StrongBelwas

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Black Isle probably would've released Fallout 3 before IWD2 ("You have the creators right there and you're letting the IP languish."), saving the company. Bethesda would've had to focus on Elder Scrolls games, and they'd be up to the seventh or eighth mainline entry by this point.
Interplay had too much dead weight for any cRPG to save it, the best case scenario would probably have been that one idea where Black Isle would be bought by another company (Which realistically would have just become another Obsidian)
 

Jigby

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By contrast, what Micro Forte did in 18 months
Keep in mind that Micro Forte before it made Enemy Infestation which bled into Fallout Tactics.
And of course there's Bioware's Infinity Engine that they got far more use out of it (that Bioware and other studios [Obsidian, CD Projekt] continued using up through Dragon Age II).
IE is of course much bigger and much more complex than what Fallout has, so kudos to Bioware, but you're mixing it up here with Aurora.
 

IHaveHugeNick

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This might be true, but Tim did choose to go out and found his own company afterwards.

And quickly learned running a studio isn't as easy as they thought, same with Feargus. Which is exactly why after falling out with Fargo in the 90s, they all get along just fine these days.
 

Roguey

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IE is of course much bigger and much more complex than what Fallout has, so kudos to Bioware, but you're mixing it up here with Aurora.
Aurora and all future iterations have a different renderer, but it's all built off the Infinity Engine. Anthony Davis, who's seen the code, said as much. Additionally the biggest giveaway is that there's no z-axis gameplay/rooms-over-rooms in any of these games. Despite using 3D graphics, it's a 2D engine.
 

Jigby

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IE is of course much bigger and much more complex than what Fallout has, so kudos to Bioware, but you're mixing it up here with Aurora.
Aurora and all future iterations have a different renderer, but it's all built off the Infinity Engine. Anthony Davis, who's seen the code, said as much. Additionally the biggest giveaway is that there's no z-axis gameplay/rooms-over-rooms in any of these games. Despite using 3D graphics, it's a 2D engine.
In that sense even Arcanum is then built on top of Fallout. And then ToEE.
 

Roguey

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Anyway, with that moustache Brian looks like someone who gets VIP tickets to Epstein Island.
Mustaches were fashionable in the late 70s/early 80s for whatever reason. He's no Tom Selleck though.

In that sense even Arcanum is then built upon Fallout. And ToEE on top of Arcanum.
Cain was legally not allowed to use any code from Interplay. I recall hearing that Interplay actually had people go over to Troika to make sure he wasn't using anything of theirs. But ToEE does in fact use Arcanum's engine, yes.
 

Jigby

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Anyway, with that moustache Brian looks like someone who gets VIP tickets to Epstein Island.
Mustaches were fashionable in the late 70s/early 80s for whatever reason. He's no Tom Selleck though.

In that sense even Arcanum is then built upon Fallout. And ToEE on top of Arcanum.
Cain was legally not allowed to use any code from Interplay. I recall hearing that Interplay actually had people go over to Troika to make sure he wasn't using anything of theirs. But ToEE does in fact use Arcanum's engine, yes.
That's just a legality, it's not like he could whiteroom it after working 3+ years on Fallout. Unless Arcanum engine was programmed by someone other than Cain.
 

SimTrY

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May 19, 2023
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The 90s gaming golden age was propped up from the bottom with highly talented and sincerely motivated game devs/designers/programmers/artists.
Brian Fargo was one of those guys.

Fargo trying to find a scapegoat to punish for the delay is just him trying to cover up his own management failures.
How was it Fargo's fault that Fallout got delayed? He put Tim in charge.

And dishing the punishment an Tim because he stood up for his team by not revealing the culprit is nothing but spite.

Yeah, that's what bosses do. Some 20 years ago, I knew a guy who was one of the most productive employees and his supervisor liked him. He hated the time-wasting meetings he had to participate in and made a bunch of jokes in one when it was his turn to be in charge of minutes. His boss's boss didn't like that and told him he needed to be more professional. My pal had a bit of a chip on his shoulder and said no. They immediately fired him for insubordination and had security escort him from the building, his productivity and good work didn't matter. Most of the states have at-will employment and you can leave or be fired for any reason at any time. Fargo would have been within his rights to fire Tim for saying no to him, and there are plenty of bosses who would have, but Brian clearly valued what Tim had to offer. In hindsight, it would have been better for his ego just to fire him since the outcome would have been the same. :P
jesus are you like a member of the brian fargo dick sucking club or something ?
 

0sacred

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if there had been I don't think Tim would have omitted this small but highly important tidbit

People can omit a lot of things for various reasons. Which is more likely: it was standard practice for CEOs like Brian to reprimand individual employees when their actions hurt the bottom line or Brian suddenly decided he wanted to go bad well over a decade in the industry?

It would fit in with his megalomanical personality. Why would Tim have been surprised if this was indeed standard practice?
 

Melcar

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if there had been I don't think Tim would have omitted this small but highly important tidbit

People can omit a lot of things for various reasons. Which is more likely: it was standard practice for CEOs like Brian to reprimand individual employees when their actions hurt the bottom line or Brian suddenly decided he wanted to go bad well over a decade in the industry?

It would fit in with his megalomanical personality. Why would Tim have been surprised if this was indeed standard practice?

It seems it was more of I "I thought we were Bros". From the video it seems to me like he saw it more as a betrayal of friendship and trust. He (Cain) assumed too much. Why won't your boss reprimand you and hold you accountable for a fuckup that happened in your project? Should he instead just let it slide? After all, the game got released and everyone made their money.
 

0sacred

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It seems it was more of I "I thought we were Bros". From the video it seems to me like he saw it more as a betrayal of friendship and trust. He (Cain) assumed too much. Why won't your boss reprimand you and hold you accountable for a fuckup that happened in your project? Should he instead just let it slide? After all, the game got released and everyone made their money.

I would give Cain the benefit of the doubt there. He was not new to the industry, after all.
 
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Vatnik
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Watched it in its entirety. It's very nostalgic and you can tell they're forever bound by those experiences and will reminisce with enthusiasm, laughing for the hundredth time at old jokes, etc. But there's not much to repost here.

This was the song Leonard originally wanted in the intro, but couldn't get, because it was too expensive:

(We'll meet again by Vera Lynn, if it doesn't load for you, Nick)

And the Pip Boy was inspired by the Monopoly guy, Bob's Big Boy and The Jetsons.
fae0cabf720d0f3d932c048716f277d6.png


And for the first 6 months of development they were making an ode to Road Warrior, hadn't even thought of making it original and theirs in any way. Only then Leonard came up with retrofuturism. And the Brotherhood of Steel was a copycat of an organization from some sci-fi novel, but I didn't write it down. And self-admittedly, Leonard's power armor wasn't retrofuturistic, but it seemed cool, and that was enough. The lantern on its helmet was inspired by the City of Lost Children that Leonard had just watched.

They finished saying they should do another one of these on Arcanum and Vampire. Crossing my fingers.
 
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