Cain on Games - Tim Cain's new YouTube channel

[Diggfinger]

Troika's Legacy​

Troika Games only existed for six years, and in that time, they released three RPGs, all of which have become cult classics. In a 2019 poll of the Top 101 PC RPGs of all time, RPG Codex users ranked Troika's games at #4 (Arcanum), #5 (Bloodlines) and #41 (The Temple of Elemental Evil). That is a stunning track record, and the post-mortem reflections on the legacy of Troika and their games serves to illustrate the fickle nature of the videogame market, and how easy it is for brilliant games to go unnoticed when they don't fit the current market trends or publisher demands.

 

[Diggfinger]

Interesting that few days ago, just before Tim's first video someone has written an extensive article about Troika: https://www.superjumpmagazine.com/the-brief-reign-of-troika-games/

Also
https://ibb.co/7CvYTPS][/url]


Seems the guy who wrote the article got a little inspiration from my Wiki article on JDA
(reproduces much of the same info and many of the sources and quotes)

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Interesting overall so far.

 

[Maldoror]

fairly decent

Yeah. Worth a playthrough or two. Granted the only companion who I took along with me was Vicar Max, since I could tell from brief conversations with them that the entire companion cast (apart from the robot) were just awful.
I had a good deal of fun with the gunplay and creatively resolving quests. You can play as a "lawful evil" or "chaotic neutral" mercenary in this game and have a rather nice time.
I actually beat the game, twice even, which is more than I can say for most modern RPGs.

 

[Yosharian]

Playing TOW more than once would probably give me ass cancer, finishing the first playthrough already made me suicidal

 

[Late Bloomer]

I actually beat the game, twice even, which is more than I can say for most modern RPGs.

Is that really how long two playthroughs took or is that just some generic picture you found?

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Testosterone drops with age so if you didn't have much to begin with, which most game designers don't, you are likely to turn into a massive pussy later on.

Might explain what's going on with older devs becoming indistinguishable from modern nu-devs, that or society no longer frowning upon weak men so they think they are finally free form the burden of having to live up to some masculine values.

According to Aquinas, effeminacy is a vice btw, because it leads to a lack of perseverance among other things:

https://www.churchpop.com/2018/08/2...acy-what-st-thomas-aquinas-says-in-his-summa/

Now i cannot imagine you can lead a gaming company or design a good game without perserverance, hard work and some degree of hardness. I don't know about Tim Cain specifically but there has to be a reason why so many older devs have turned into has beens if not nu-devs as i said (I.E., Ron Gilbert).

probably explains why I am such a fucking bitch now

 

[Jinn]

Tim's favorite sci-fi novel is Lord of Light. He even started designing an RPG around it! So unbelievably monocled.

Really enjoying his videos so far. His discussion on the true purpose of the Vaults in Fallout was fantastic. My official headcannon now.

 

[Maldoror]

Is that really how long two playthroughs took or is that just some generic picture you found?

A playthrough of the game is about 12-13 hours. I did a chunk of side content in one playthrough (quite enjoyable) and rushed the main quest in another.

 

[Dodo1610]

Spends decades working in the games industry
-> still can't afford a good mic and webcam.
No wonder he quit.

 

[NecroLord]

He's a pretty cool guy with a prestigious legacy.
But, holy shit, was The Outer Worlds a complete clusterfuck.

 

[Sibylla]

You should forgive him saying things like "i want arcanum to get fo3 treatment", game developers have universally bad taste.
If a game is superficially fun and can bamboozle a kid they consider it a success and a good game.

 

[The Wall]

Wall, you can see he doesn't want to do it himself. But this is an opportunity for anyone who can put two and two together. It means he wants to be invited into a running business. An opportunity for an already established eastern/central euro indie company. Maybe he'll even cut you a sweat deal. When are you making your game already?

When? This year the serious work starts. It's also buffling to me that you have quite a few new seriously good indie studios on one hand and old legendary devs on the other side. Example: Iron Tower and Tim Cain. Yet they either never heared of each other or are completely blind to obvious creative and business opportunity. What blinds them and prvents them from getting creatively married: Ego or something else? Because do NOT underestimate Ego. Do not ROMANTICIZE Human Nature

It takes very little for REALLY GOOD THINGS to happen. One DM/message is sometimes all it takes. Yet for some reason such message stays written, gathering dust in draft folder. Never sent

 

[Diggfinger]

Interesting overall so far.

The Outer Worlds !?!?!

Dont play that, your arch-nemesis J. Sawyer designed the Hunting Rifle

 

[Infinitron]

I talk about the Might & Magic 10 Design Proposal that Troika made in late 2003 and submitted in February 2004 to Ubisoft. Spoiler alert: we didn't get the contract.

Correction: the MM10 proposal isn't 10-15 pages long like I said in this video. It's 25 pages long. I was wordy.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I don't mean the outer worlds being interesting, etc. Just the video series. It's good to actually see him making appearances, even if I'm not the biggest fan of his most recent work.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Example: Iron Tower and Tim Cain. Yet they either never heared of each other

I played Iron Tower's games. And I just finished playing a 4 day marathon of Fallout 1.

It's hard to describe with words how much MORE I appreciate Fallout 1's brief dialogues now, after looking looking into the abyss of the nu-rpgs. Iron Tower is one of the worst offenders of the modern long-winded loquacious tedious overwritten games. Just like Pillars was, and then Tranny, and then Numenera. Nobody likes it. But those writers can't stop doing it. I wouldn't want Tim wasted there. Would you? I guess you must like Iron Tower's works, Idk.

One of the reasons I want to make my own RPG is because no modern games bring satisfaction. I haven't enjoyed an RPG since 2004.

 

[The Wall]

Agreed. Modern teams lack that *little something*. Chemical X. Tim could be secret sauce that makes Iron Tower's next game LEGENDARY. But for some reason we can't have nice things any more. Someone decided that. Maybe that someone is us. It's time to drag Tim and Avellone out from pension. We already know how to lure Tim into trap: pizza & dark chocolate

 

[NecroLord]

We already know how to lure Tim into trap: pizza & dark chocolate

And gay sex.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Listening to the latest vid. He says he played M&M 1 through 9 before even thinking about MM10's design. Compare that to the modern devs' snooty attitude towards older games when making a sequel. Best case they wouldn't even play them. Worst case they'll play them and then would "fix their toxic and exclusive mechanics".

Just 20 years passed and we live in a different, unrecognizable time.

 

[Diggfinger]

Dang!

Tim's mention of a LoTR RPG spawned an entire PC Gamer article...

https://www.pcgamer.com/a-fallout-c...ncluding-an-early-lord-of-the-rings-rpg-demo/

 

[Tavernking]

I talk about the Might & Magic 10 Design Proposal that Troika made in late 2003 and submitted in February 2004 to Ubisoft. Spoiler alert: we didn't get the contract.

Correction: the MM10 proposal isn't 10-15 pages long like I said in this video. It's 25 pages long. I was wordy.

At 3:00 is he implying that he was amongst the modders who wrote the unoffical patches for Troika's games? If so, much respect to this guy.

 

[0sacred]

I talk about the Might & Magic 10 Design Proposal that Troika made in late 2003 and submitted in February 2004 to Ubisoft. Spoiler alert: we didn't get the contract.

Correction: the MM10 proposal isn't 10-15 pages long like I said in this video. It's 25 pages long. I was wordy.

Might & Magic 10 with branching and dumb dialogue. ImAgInE tHe pOsSiBiLitiEs

 

[Goral]

Wesp5 has asked about Bloodlines' cut content: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iugDcbR-gE&lc=UgzGEvu8KMbE6irC_vh4AaABAg

Hello Tim, Wesp5 here, the man behind the Unofficial Patches. In this video you already confirmed the cut Hallowbrook Atrium and Public Library maps which we restored for the patch, but do you remember anything about the Chateau Marmont hotel and where it was supposed to be used? I asked Brian Mitsoda about it, but he had no idea. We rebuild it as the Anarchs endgame haven and for the Prelude I mod in which you actually play as a human hunter! For the latter we restored a lot of the multiplayer hunter content you left hidden in the game files, but I would so love to see any of the maps you said were finished! Can these be found somewhere? Also would you be willing to answer questions about other unfinished content? Like is your comment about the Warrens about the Nosferatu Lair sections or the endless sewer levels before that?

Wesp5! You have done (and are doing) amazing work. I wish I could answer your area design questions, but I didn't work on those cut areas so I don't really know. My Vampire archive is woefully incomplete, as I know I am missing most artwork, many levels, and a lot of other things. I will try to ask other ex-Troika folks.

That would be great. Any chance you can share what you do have in your archive in another video? Or post the original design document somewhere where we can take a look ?

I'll see what I can do.

This is getting better and better.