CD Projekt's Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 + Phantom Liberty Expansion Thread

[TemplarGR]

I don't think it was bad software engineering per se. It was more like "a deal with the devil", and the devil is Nvidia, obviously. I have seen it way too many times, and that is yet another reason why i hate Nvidia with a passion. You see, Nvidia often offers "help" to various game studios and also sponsorships, and in exchange they get their "engineers" to "help" with the game engines, where "help" really means they optimise the engines for their latest gpu architecture while making everything else (including older nvidia generations) run like shit. This has happened too many times, and in the past it happened to other companies like Ubisoft. Ever wondered for example why Ubisoft used to be big on Nvidia "gameworks" in the early years of the previous generation, and apparently all their games were garbage optimized disasters, stuff like Unity and Watch Dogs... And apparently in the last years Ubisoft mostly ditched the Nvidia shit and suddenly the games that ditched it run far better while having better graphics! I could get technical and explain in serious detail why this happens, but i won't cause it would be off topic and looooong, and no one would read it anyway cause you are ADD cucks.

In any case, the point is that Nvidia probably offered many incentives to get their filthy paws on Cyberpunk 2077's engine, and it shows. And since the game was mostly designed to run optimally on recent Nvidia hardware, the game runs unoptimally on anything else, including consoles. Nvidia for example typically uses high geometry on everything, which is not optimal visually but their architectures have typically much higher geometry performance than comparable AMD gpus so AMD gpus bottleneck more. I can easily see that Cyberpunk 2077 uses A LOT of useless geometry and that can cripple consoles that use weaker cpu cores and amd gpus. I can't see how they can optimise this shit now and release for PS4. They need to literally swap all models for lower poly variants, then redo the animation. Perhaps do a pass on textures, replace some poly-based effects with shader-based effects etc. There is a reason performance on PS4 sucked. It won't be easy to make the game playable on previous gen consoles, and if they do, it will probably lower the hardware requirements on PC as well, if they port the assets.

CDPR should have NEVER made a deal with Nvidia. I suppose they probably did it cause polish engineers suck and they were adamant on being "state of the art" on "next gen" for marketing and bragging reasons, so they invited the Nvidia scum to "help". Instead of just advancing the Witcher 3 engine a bit, which was already somewhat optimised, they instead created a frankestein monster while also delivering Nvidia the keys to the castle, and the Nvidia fucks turned Cyberpunk 2077 from the most anticipated game of the decade to just a tech demo to push RTX 3080 sales. Fucking potatoland idiots, like anyone played the Witcher games for the graphics...

 

[Turjan]

But that's a shitty incentive to betray Panam anyway, I would have prefered there was an option to convince her to leave the clan.

Well, you won't be able to sway her mind, no. In the end, you know exactly what you are getting into if you team up with her. Either put up with it, or go your own way.
It's not exactly a shitty reason. If you really think that this sounds like a suicide mission, it's a reasonable way to act. In character, you wouldn't know how the mission ends. It's only with the knowledge how this plays out that you think that mission is a good idea. Or "game logic": trust that the game won't send you on a mission that will fail in an uninteresting way.

With game-logic in mind this should have been a militech set-up cos its literally pointed out "being too convenient" among other indications, prolly cut-content. Never thought mission was a good idea hence I mentioned how I wound up doing the mission but "suicide mission" or not betraying her for just a car is shitty incentive.

You don't know about the car when you make your decision. But I think you get to the point why this is a shitty choice: If you take it, you miss out on quite a bit of content. And which player wants to miss out on content - willingly.

 

[Turjan]

Anyone have the Tapeworm quest acting up in the log? Just completed Automatic Love, Bad Neo popped up to give me a quest called Tapeworm about finding some Mikoshi macguffin, and then it disappeared from the log again. Saw a reddit post suggesting that it comes back "at the right narrative moment", but reddit isn't prestigious enough to rely on.

That's normal. The quest should pop up a few times. Resolution should be shortly after you completed all of the four main quest lines of Act 2.

 

[Quillon]

If you take it, you miss out on quite a bit of content.

There are a few quests where this is the case; some stuff just doesn't seem logical to do so I didn't do it, now in my second run I'm yes-manning everything and there are no consequences, just more content.

 

[Turjan]

The corporations have stations in space and on the moon. To think that a group of desert dwellers could get away with a scheme like that without being found out breaks my suspension of disbelief. In principle, Cyberpunk shows its age here. While the topic is corporate control, the topic isn't really thought through to the bitter end. On the other hand, that's what makes up its nostalgic charm.

Nah, the main part of c77 and generally cyberpunk is that corporations despite the fact that they play preem place in band are just as well running a lot like headless chickens into something often. And it is not like they don't respond in that quest line they outright send heavy forces.

And it is not like we are talking about them trying to take over military compound but some boring machine. Hell for company that owns it they probably thought it was just raid for resources not some deep plan to hurt A list company.

These corporations terminate their employees by orbital strike if they don't need them anymore (you find one such individual). There's no reason why they shouldn't find that Basilisk in an open landscape. They should be able to watch their satellite footage. It's inconsistent.

Your "c77 is so" isn't that different from what I call "nostalgic charm" in the end.

 

[mediocrepoet]

the Nvidia fucks turned Cyberpunk 2077 from the most anticipated game of the decade to just a tech demo to push RTX 3080 sales.

Definitely possible. The game reception and videos have reminded me of original release Crysis which was just a big graphics tech demo on top of a mediocre game, and many of the videos have struck me as a huge ad for RTX and performance hardware making it seem compelling where nothing else really has before in my mind.

 

[Turjan]

If you take it, you miss out on quite a bit of content.

There are a few quests where this is the case; some stuff just doesn't seem logical to do so I didn't do it, now in my second run I'm yes-manning everything and there are no consequences, just more content.

Yeah, like Stefan. Who in his right mind would take the offer? Only someone who's just curious.

 

[Derringer]

I think the delisting is what hurts them the most, along with Xbox extended refunds, and I think the main reason both those things happened was the stupid press release by CDP telling people to return the game if they want. I don't know if that was a fuck up based on not understanding standard refund policies or what, but that's what made Sony and Microsoft shove it up their ass like they did. According to Digital Foundry there were games that ran just as badly as the PS3 and Xbox 360 at the end of their life cycles like Far Cry 3 and Crysis 3, and those companies just stuck their fingers in their ears and weathered the storm. CDP could have probably gotten away with doing the same, especially since the PC version is pretty solid and even after refunds they sold 13 million copies.

I still don't know why the fuck they did that, Cyberpunk is like any other failed AAA project successfully sold with marketing, they were being fucking stupid thinking they weren't going to get stabbed in the back by both companies.

 

[JustMyOnion]

On the topic of events not fitting the world,

Spoiler

Saburo's death belongs at the top of that list. One of the most powerful men alive and he dies from 10 seconds of choking? No cybernetics lungs, or cybernetic revival implants? His personal bodyguard doesn't have advanced cyber-eyes that could immediately scan the room for additional life signs? And nobody thought about checking the body which would reveal obvious choking marks?

I kept expecting Saburo to just stand up and be fine, and the whole situation being a red herring but it was all for real, apparently.

 

[DalekFlay]

The serial killer BD mission feels insanely Grand Theft Auto, like the Housers wrote it, and I bailed when the very GTA style corporate sassy lady offered me money.

 

[680x0]

Truly the "Sport of Kings"

 

[Quillon]

If you take it, you miss out on quite a bit of content.

There are a few quests where this is the case; some stuff just doesn't seem logical to do so I didn't do it, now in my second run I'm yes-manning everything and there are no consequences, just more content.

Yeah, like Stefan. Who in his right mind would take the offer? Only someone who's just curious.

Or that guy when you first meet Rogue; you are about to meet the top fixer in town and this guy right near offering a job bypassing the fixer involvement. Granted I didn't agree to this in my first run and didn't complete it in my second run just yet but I'm sure I won't get any flak from any fixer/Rogue, maybe I'm wrong tho, hopefully

 

[gurugeorge]

Paralez quest was good. Would have been way better as main quest.

The detective investigation in that is nice, and it has a lovely sinister air about it (the use of antique untraceable tech gave me goosebumps). I think it was a lost opportunity not to tie that quest into the beyond-the-Blackwall stuff. It could have led to an alternative way of getting into touch with Alt Cunningham, for example.

 

[gurugeorge]

Man, the turn range on some of these vehicles is terrible.

I was shocked to discover that the possibility of mouse turning a vehicle is in the game (the tank). Why the fuck didn't they implement an option for mouse turning for the cars and bikes for PC?

But that's a shitty incentive to betray Panam anyway, I would have prefered there was an option to convince her to leave the clan.

Well, you won't be able to sway her mind, no. In the end, you know exactly what you are getting into if you team up with her. Either put up with it, or go your own way.
It's not exactly a shitty reason. If you really think that this sounds like a suicide mission, it's a reasonable way to act. In character, you wouldn't know how the mission ends. It's only with the knowledge how this plays out that you think that mission is a good idea. Or "game logic": trust that the game won't send you on a mission that will fail in an uninteresting way.

Edit: It's game logic, anyway. The corporations have stations in space and on the moon. To think that a group of desert dwellers could get away with a scheme like that without being found out breaks my suspension of disbelief. In principle, Cyberpunk shows its age here. While the topic is corporate control, the topic isn't really thought through to the bitter end. On the other hand, that's what makes up its nostalgic charm.

Yes, very much agree with this. Thinking things through to the bitter end, there's actually no way for "renegade corpos" or "street kids" or "nomads" to outsmart the corps, given that their bodies are stuffed with corp-made hi tech, and they don't have the collective resources to make their own corp-free hi tech.

I can see the possibility of that only when the human diaspora is spread enough (say solar system colonization, or even star system hopefully) such that anti-corp types can have their own industrial bases, and have enough numbers to staff them. But then they'll probably rediscover the wheel and develop their own forms of tyranny.

The idea that "plucky renegades" could have the slightest chance against the society-controlling system (which is the very core essence of cyberpunk) is indeed a function of the relative naivete of the 70s and 80s.

 

[gurugeorge]

On the topic of events not fitting the world,

Spoiler

Saburo's death belongs at the top of that list. One of the most powerful men alive and he dies from 10 seconds of choking? No cybernetics lungs, or cybernetic revival implants? His personal bodyguard doesn't have advanced cyber-eyes that could immediately scan the room for additional life signs? And nobody thought about checking the body which would reveal obvious choking marks?

I kept expecting Saburo to just stand up and be fine, and the whole situation being a red herring but it was all for real, apparently.

No, actually

Spoiler

it makes sense that Saburo wouldn't be a chrome-head, he was too wise to get high on his own supply. He was "into" hi tech only to the extent that it enabled him to stay alive and in charge, and that holds through to the invention of the prototype and his subsequent immortality. His drive is the "perfection" he speaks of in the news feed at the end when in Yoshi's body, and that just means him and his family being in charge of everything. As to the choke marks, Hanako makes it clear that everyone knew the truth, but they went along with Yoshi for reasons of greed and ambition. As to Takemura scanning, he was in the process of doing so when they told him to leave the room.

 

[Ezeekiel]

Interesting little thing about the penthouse scene:

Spoiler

If you have the cybereye mod which highlights any enemy who detects you, Smasher will be highlighted the entire time he is in the suite... Though of course he does nothing. Pretty creepy, though... If only I'd realized that's what it was... Thought it was just a bug haha

 

[Perkel]

I was shocked to discover that the possibility of mouse turning a vehicle is in the game (the tank). Why the fuck didn't they implement an option for mouse turning for the cars and bikes for PC?

Because it is horrible to drive. Borderlands has that feature and its driving is one of the shittiest mostly due to mouse control instead of WSAD.

When it comes to driving games on kayboard you have to learn doing pressing impulses. So if you want to turn gradually you have to quickly press A or D in impuilses which will lead to smooth turn.

Aside from that there isn't really anything you can do. Keyboard is inheritently shitty for anything that requires smooth controls. For years i wanted keyboard with some sticks attached to it alas no one made such a thing.

 

[TemplarGR]

Definitely possible. The game reception and videos have reminded me of original release Crysis which was just a big graphics tech demo on top of a mediocre game, and many of the videos have struck me as a huge ad for RTX and performance hardware making it seem compelling where nothing else really has before in my mind.

Yup. Cyberpunk 2077 is first and foremost an Nvidia killer-app now. The fact that you can't really run it optimally without DLSS says everything you need to know. There is no chance in hell this happened without meddling by Nvidia engineers. What i am really amazed about, is why CDPR actually allowed this to happen. They probably thought they could still make the game perform on lesser hardware/past gen consoles by disabling most of Nvidia shenanigans, and i suspect the multiple delays were because they attempted to fix it, but failed. They failed because they lacked some fundamental understanding on how game engines work, and what parts can be "lowered" without needing to significantly alter game assets and what parts can't. Problem is the way the game was made always meant it couldn't perform on PS4, no matter how much you lower stuff like the resolution, shadows, shaders. It doesn't matter, the geometry is too much and the geometry remains the same no matter how much you lower everything else, unless you duplicate the assets intended for lesser hardware, which means more work and testing. I suppose some people saw "clipping" in PS4 versions because CDPR engineers did some hacks to reduce geometry to make it able to run, to no avail.

It is also strange since Witcher 3 didn't use as much geometry. And high geometry is a very obsolete and inefficient way to increase visual detail, and the only reason some games abuse geometry is cause it makes Nvidia hardware more attractive. AMD in recent architectures have tried increasing clocks (and thus geometry performance) in order to limit Nvidia shenanigans, that is why RDNA and RDNA2 architectures have significantly higher clocks while keeping shader cores steady. You don't need geometry for visual fidelity, that is what shaders are for. But tell that to Nshitia which implemented God Rays in Fallout 4 using tesselated and textured POLYGONS instead of shaders... FFS.... In 2015... While in 2008, Stalker Clear Sky from some Ukranian nobodies had D3D10 shaders design some wonderful god rays and ran on a toaster, in 2015 and D3D11 Fallout 4 used textured and tesselated polygons, cause AMD hardware would be slower at it and Bethesda has always been an Nshitia shill.

Fuck Nvidia and fuck everyone who buys Nvidia. You all suck.

 

[gurugeorge]

But that's a shitty incentive to betray Panam anyway, I would have prefered there was an option to convince her to leave the clan.

Well, you won't be able to sway her mind, no. In the end, you know exactly what you are getting into if you team up with her. Either put up with it, or go your own way.
It's not exactly a shitty reason. If you really think that this sounds like a suicide mission, it's a reasonable way to act. In character, you wouldn't know how the mission ends. It's only with the knowledge how this plays out that you think that mission is a good idea. Or "game logic": trust that the game won't send you on a mission that will fail in an uninteresting way.

With game-logic in mind this should have been a militech set-up cos its literally pointed out "being too convenient" among other indications, prolly cut-content. Never thought mission was a good idea hence I mentioned how I wound up doing the mission but "suicide mission" or not betraying her for just a car is shitty incentive.

You don't know about the car when you make your decision. But I think you get to the point why this is a shitty choice: If you take it, you miss out on quite a bit of content. And which player wants to miss out on content - willingly.

Yeah one of the best things about CDPR is that they stick to the idea of you being an in-game character, and not a gamer sitting in front of a computer. So they don't always flag dialogue options that hide crucial decisions. That's a great thing - it's just that there's not enough of that intricacy in the game, and judging by the amount of quests that look like they should have led to more intricate events down the line, a lot of that was probably planned, but remained unfinished and curtailed, probably for the reasons people have been saying - the need to stuff Keanu in everywhere, bad management, etc.

 

[gurugeorge]

I was shocked to discover that the possibility of mouse turning a vehicle is in the game (the tank). Why the fuck didn't they implement an option for mouse turning for the cars and bikes for PC?

Because it is horrible to drive. Borderlands has that feature and its driving is one of the shittiest mostly due to mouse control instead of WSAD.

When it comes to driving games on kayboard you have to learn doing pressing impulses. So if you want to turn gradually you have to quickly press A or D in impuilses which will lead to smooth turn.

Aside from that there isn't really anything you can do. Keyboard is inheritently shitty for anything that requires smooth controls. For years i wanted keyboard with some sticks attached to it alas no one made such a thing.

YMMV but I find mouse steering of vehicles much more congenial. Anyway, I said "option."

On a related note, there's a cool mod for Skyrim that turns the mouse-wheel into an analogue of the analogue stick - i.e. as you move the mouse wheel forward the character speeds up to a run. Very nice, I wish more games would do that, because the analogue stick is one of the best things about controllers, and the mouse wheel is the best analogue for it in a m/k setup.

 

[Perkel]

On a related note, there's a cool mod for Skyrim that turns the mouse-wheel into an analogue of the analogue stick - i.e. as you move the mouse wheel forward the character speeds up to a run. Very nice, I wish more games would do that, because the analogue stick is one of the best things about controllers, and the mouse wheel is the best analogue for it in a m/k setup.

I think they got it from Star Citizen. In that game they use mouse wheel for multiple things and one of them is to regulate how fast your character is moving. Yeah it is pretty neat for adjusting character speed.

 

[moon knight]

On the topic of events not fitting the world,

Spoiler

Saburo's death belongs at the top of that list. One of the most powerful men alive and he dies from 10 seconds of choking? No cybernetics lungs, or cybernetic revival implants? His personal bodyguard doesn't have advanced cyber-eyes that could immediately scan the room for additional life signs? And nobody thought about checking the body which would reveal obvious choking marks?

I kept expecting Saburo to just stand up and be fine, and the whole situation being a red herring but it was all for real, apparently.

Chocking is not about depriving people from air. That takes too much time. It's about blocking the flow of blood to the brain

 

[orcinator]

Even after 110 hours I managed to come across an area with a distinct style I haven't seen before

The legion of slavs working on this can't QA for shit nor do any of them know about compelling gameplay but they can churn out unique locations like nobody's business.

 

[Ibn Sina]

I was feeling completely disconnected because it was Johnny's show and I was just a schmuck on the wrong place at the wrong time.

Which is the entire point choom. You are supposed to feel helpless and thrashing against your inevitable demise. It is a dystopian setting, not a heroic fantasy.

 

[Turjan]

The idea that "plucky renegades" could have the slightest chance against the society-controlling system (which is the very core essence of cyberpunk) is indeed a function of the relative naivete of the 70s and 80s.

You get short glimpses of reality sometimes. Like when you ask that one ripperdoc why he himself doesn't use any implants, he answers with something like "one solar flare and the whole society will be blind". One of the loading screen messages goes into a similar direction.