Decline Character creation screen starts with race selection or worse

[Dorateen]

The Realms of Arkania series also had race as class player characters.

 

[Serus]

Lol. Drow != dark elves. Drow are an invention of D&D.

By that logic you probably also think that halflings =/ hobbits.

Still, dark elves called "drow" are not exlusive to DnD. Who gives a shit who invented the name. Please take your autistic literalism back to /v/.

Of curse you CAN make a setting where evil drows / dark elves or whatever can become something called "paladins".

Mhm

A good author could maybe pull it off and actually end with something interesting

Uh-huh

It can be done

So we are in agreement. Everything else is just unfounded pessimism on your part.

But what is the point in a computer game?

Idk, freedom of choice maybe but we at the codex hate freedom, we love restrictions don't we folks.

You are supposed to make arguments, not repeat phrases like "it's a slogan" or "unfounded pessimism". Tell us why it is a slogan or why the pessimism is unfounded.
Also "freedom of choice?" By making all races look literally identical? How does that work, enlighten us? You are a very bad troll at this moment. In fact i start to believe you are a troll most the time on the Codex.

 

[Daemongar]

Non-human races shouldn't have classes.

I found the D&D Basic Set gamer. There are dozens of us, I tell you! Dozens!

Well Old School Essentials is a currently popular system that I'm in a group with now. I play a dwarf. That's it. That's all I could qualify for with a pure roll 3d6 six times for stats, put it your rolls on your sheet, in order (this is as brutal as it sounds.) It's fun, but if you can imagine a stripped down version of Basic rules - this is it. Fun, but I feel comfortable in the AD&D setting - about the right amount of rules and a good amount of rigidity. Halflings couldn't be clerics, Dwarves couldn't be mages, women couldn't be as strong as men - it really was a great system.

 

[RNGsus]

 

[Darth Canoli]

I find it extremely disturbing and even more when some races don't have access to certain classes.

It's called world building retard.

I see the dumb fuckery of third edition D&D has produced a generation of idiots who don't seem to know the roots of a lot of this stuff.

The "why can't i play as a Drow Paladin!" generation has destroyed RPGs forever. They literally traded every Tolkienesque element in favor of the capeshit wannabe modern fantasy settings have become.

First and foremost, I want to point out you're a fucking retard!

Now, let's explain why.
"I find it extremely disturbing" In that sentence, "it" isn't your brother, your sister or your father making his coming out, it is the topic of this conversation, aka the title.

I don't have anything against races/classes restriction.
And to contradict my point, I find it even better when some NPC/Companions can bypass that restriction because of their unique background.

Now, had I a choice between everything is possible and classes/races restriction I'd pick Wizardry 8 system where everything is possible but some races/classes have a better synergy and some other, while starting weaker, give you some lovin' by mid-game and yet, most weaker starting combination just sucks.

Ideally, Wizardry system aside, I like character/races restrictions but what I like even more is deep character creation/dev systems.
So, let's say your base system has restrictions.

• Implement an advantage/disadvantage system (phobias, various weaknesses), nothing cosmetic, everything has to have real in-game repercussions.
• Allow to bypass some restrictions at the cost of various disadvantages, depending on the combination you want.
• Disadvantages have to effect the gameplay in various instances, not just for one encounter out of 165528.

 

[Nathaniel3W]

NO race is evil

other than russians and Putin

Not Russians. But orcs, drow, illithids, gnolls, and goblins are.

Why not a freeform character sheet where the player can make changes and edits at will?

I'll just roll up my halfling who identifies as a storm giant, who gets all the stat changes for being a gargantuan-sized creature. And next I'll play a lawful-good mindflayer paladin because eating brains sucked straight from a human skull is part of who I am, and anyone who says it's sinful is a bigot. Looking at you, worshippers of Pelor. You should be the ones labeled evil for saying that murdering people and eating their brains is evil.

 

[Lyric Suite]

And to contradict my point, I find it even better when some NPC/Companions can bypass that restriction because of their unique background.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

people conflate the concept of human 'races'(ethnicity+culture) with fantasy 'races'(species)
there's a reason very few classes were ever locked from humans, they were meant to have a diverse range of backgrounds

 

[Tyranicon]

Why not a freeform character sheet where the player can make changes and edits at will?

I'll just roll up my halfling who identifies as a storm giant, who gets all the stat changes for being a gargantuan-sized creature. And next I'll play a lawful-good mindflayer paladin because eating brains sucked straight from a human skull is part of who I am, and anyone who says it's sinful is a bigot. Looking at you, worshippers of Pelor. You should be the ones labeled evil for saying that murdering people and eating their brains is evil.

I think you quoted the wrong post? What I meant was a character sheet like dnd where everything fit neatly on one page:

 

[rusty_shackleford]

helps to remember to keep the views of the authors in mind when reading their material
e.g., being a libertarian as a nerd was very much an 'in' thing at the time

As I have often said, I am a biological determinist

Spoiler

death of the author was very wrong

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

NO race is evil

other than russians and Putin

Not Russians. But orcs, drow, illithids, gnolls, and goblins are.

What if you combine Russians and orcs:

Not my creation

 

[Serus]

I find it extremely disturbing and even more when some races don't have access to certain classes.

It's called world building retard.

I see the dumb fuckery of third edition D&D has produced a generation of idiots who don't seem to know the roots of a lot of this stuff.

The "why can't i play as a Drow Paladin!" generation has destroyed RPGs forever. They literally traded every Tolkienesque element in favor of the capeshit wannabe modern fantasy settings have become.

First and foremost, I want to point out you're a fucking retard!

Now, let's explain why.
"I find it extremely disturbing" In that sentence, "it" isn't your brother, your sister or your father making his coming out, it is the topic of this conversation, aka the title.

I don't have anything against races/classes restriction.
And to contradict my point, I find it even better when some NPC/Companions can bypass that restriction because of their unique background.

Now, had I a choice between everything is possible and classes/races restriction I'd pick Wizardry 8 system where everything is possible but some races/classes have a better synergy and some other, while starting weaker, give you some lovin' by mid-game and yet, most weaker starting combination just sucks.

Ideally, Wizardry system aside, I like character/races restrictions but what I like even more is deep character creation/dev systems.
So, let's say your base system has restrictions.

• Implement an advantage/disadvantage system (phobias, various weaknesses), nothing cosmetic, everything has to have real in-game repercussions.
• Allow to bypass some restrictions at the cost of various disadvantages, depending on the combination you want.
• Disadvantages have to effect the gameplay in various instances, not just for one encounter out of 165528.

I like late wizardry games but to be honest their game world isn't very well developed. The planets in W7 and 8 part are good but all the player races are from somewhere else. Basically in this regard they the most generic of genric-ness. This is, i think, one of the reasons there aren't any race restrictions. There is however a sex restriction for Valkyries. Taking such generic title (apart from one maybe two races, most are typical fantasy stuff) when it comes to player character - as example of good player character creation - is a bit strange to me.

 

[Harthwain]

Why the hell 95% of the cRPG don't start character creation with class selection?

Probably because they aren't made with mini-maxing in mind and aim at "create your idea of a character" instead. This is exactly the reason why classes stopped having hard requirements and why races were turned into nothing more than character skins.

Personally I wish to see the class selection to be "discovered" inside of a game (Planescape: Torment style), rather than picked right at the selection screen. Especially when said game is not linear in its approach, because it would offer more options of mixing various stuff together (and exclude some, because of the pre-requisites) per run. Same goes for specializations, such as turning your basic warrior into a barbarian or a paladin.

WHY CAN'T I MAKE A MALE AMAZON??????
WHY CAN'T I MAKE AN ORC SCHOLAR?????
WHY CAN'T I MAKE A TALL DWARF?????
WHY CAN'T I MAKE A HIGH ELF BARBARIAN????????????

Because it makes no sense for any of these characters to exist. It's called internal consistency.

Actually, creating an Orc scholar would be interesting in terms of playing with a massive disadvantage. Only said "Orc scholar" wouldn't even be considered a classic scholar. This also rises an interesting question of creating an RPG in which you can do all sorts of crazy things and still be capable of doing something in the areas where you can pull your weight. However, 99% of cRPGs are incapable of accomodating for such creativity. Streets of Rogue comes to mind, especially early in the run, because at that point in time you have to play with the hand you were dealt and then can start fine-tuning your character in a direction you find most useful out of all given possibilities when you level up.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Why can't i be an African Samurai?

Why can't i be an Eskimo Templar?

What if a Torres Strait Islander found its way to America and became a Native American Shaman?

Huh? HUH?

 

[Humbaba]

You are supposed to make arguments, not repeat phrases like "it's a slogan" or "unfounded pessimism". Tell us why it is a slogan or why the pessimism is unfounded.
Also "freedom of choice?" By making all races look literally identical? How does that work, enlighten us? You are a very bad troll at this moment. In fact i start to believe you are a troll most the time on the Codex.

In fact i start to believe you are a troll most the time on the Codex

This is the first time we've ever interacted you utter caveman.

You are supposed to make arguments

How about you start making some then?

Tell us why it is a slogan or why the pessimism is unfounded.

Because neither you nor the other retard elaborated on their points and just blurted out some bullshit statement like it's self evident.

Also "freedom of choice?" By making all races look literally identical?

Wtf is your point here? See, this is what I mean by dumbasses like you just saying shit with nothing of meaning behind it. On the face of it, your question suggests that you think that a non-human paladin "looks" the same as a human paladin but I don't think even you are that stupid to suggest something so ridiculous. Are talking about mechanics? Can't be, no one ever mentioned those.

We agree on the matter anyway, as we've already established, so I have no idea what there still is to argue about. Maybe once you learn how to speak proper English we could get somewhere but right now you're making a fool out of yourself.

Why can't i be an African Samurai?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasuke

 

[Lyric Suite]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasuke

Quick, let's rewrite history to show that half of Japanese Samurai were black!

 

[Darth Canoli]

I like late wizardry games but to be honest their game world isn't very well developed. The planets in W7 and 8 part are good but all the player races are from somewhere else. Basically in this regard they the most generic of genric-ness. This is, i think, one of the reasons there aren't any race restrictions. There is however a sex restriction for Valkyries. Taking such generic title (apart from one maybe two races, most are typical fantasy stuff) when it comes to player character - as example of good player character creation - is a bit strange to me.

I can't say I'm a big fan of Trynnies and Umpanies.
On the other hand, Mooks being giants and able to wield a giant 2H sword is quite good and I absolutely love the T'Rangs.
Of course, it's a shame there isn't more differences between races, there is attributes differences at chargen but it doesn't matter on the long run since 100 is the maximal attribute (outside of item bonuses) for everyone.
T'Rangs should be like mantis, multiple arms with some drawbacks like elemental weakneses.

But I wasn't referring to this but to the starting attributes of the different races and their attributes and skill bonus depending on the chosen class.
Starting bonuses start really low with mismatches and can go very high.

And to contradict my point, I find it even better when some NPC/Companions can bypass that restriction because of their unique background.

Would fantasy be better if Drizzt Do D'urden never existed?

Every system should allow few exceptions because variety is the spice of life.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Would fantasy be better if Drizzt Do D'urden never existed?

yes

 

[Humbaba]

Quick, let's rewrite history to show that half of Japanese Samurai were black!

Sir, you've gotten the wrong address, Mr. Strawman lives down the street.

 

[Serus]

I'm a troll with average stats.

Ok.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Quick, let's rewrite history to show that half of Japanese Samurai were black!

Sir, you've gotten the wrong address, Mr. Strawman lives down the street.

Bullshit. The "exception" always disproves the rule in the mind of certain people.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Would fantasy be better if Drizzt Do D'urden never existed?

Mmmmh, yes?

I read one Drizzt novel and it was beyond shit.

 

[Serus]

Would fantasy be better if Drizzt Do D'urden never existed?

Mmmmh, yes?

I read one Drizzt novel and it was beyond shit.

I tend to agree with LS here. This is very simple literature - which i sometimes read, like Warhammer 40k novels but i can see it for what it is. It doesn't have much value or originality and one book can be easily replaced with another. If Drizzt didn't exist then Brizzt, a dark dwarf would take his place. And nothing of value would be lost. In the end it wouldn't be better but not worse either.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Brizzt, a dark dwarf

now there's a book I'd read

 

[Raghar]

Is this trolling?