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KickStarter Darkest Dungeon AKA the Celerity Attention Whore Thread

Modron

Arcane
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
11,153
Cleve needs to release Grimoire already just on the off chance that Celerity would get attached to that it would be truly majestic.
 

Lucky

Arcane
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
672
I’ve had some time to play this again and am now at the end game, so here’s my remaining thoughts on it squeezed next to my initial impressions.

Turns out I backed the kickstarter so I’ve been playing this to see what the result is. Here's my impressions so far.

...

All in all, I’m not sure whether I’m going to continue playing or wait for some mods to fix some of the grind. I’m still sort of having fun with my current teams smacking bosses, but the combat has gotten stale quickly and it doesn’t look like the game has any other tricks up its sleeve. Overall, I’d say the biggest problem the game has so far is that it wants to create an oppressive atmosphere where your characters are replaceable and can die at anytime, while heavily punishing the player for actually losing any by requiring them to heavily invest their time into grinding. I’d be disappointed but able to accept it if the game was just a really stylish dungeon crawler to be finished in an afternoon, but the current game is severely hamstrung by its lack of decent pacing and how it relying so heavily on its combat keeping you interested when it lacks the depth needed to do so.

Difficulty doesn’t meaningfully change between the start of the game and the end. End game opponents have higher stats, but not in a way that’ll require adjusting your tactics. They mostly take a few more hits or hurt your troops a bit more when you get a ‘get fucked’ seed for an encounter, but no more than that - you won’t lose anyone if your team is properly built.

Game feels more like a manager game set in a medieval setting with turn-based combat than an RPG. Consequently, the developers’d do well to learn from those games and enhance their UI with some much needed statistics. Tell me what my heroes’ killcount is and what they killed, how often they reached death’s door and in what dungeons, what their average stress level is when entering and leaving dungeons, how often they were afflicted, how often they were virtuous, what teams they were in, how many dungeon runs they have completed, how much loot they have brought home, what trinkets I usually give them, what skills they used most frequently, etcetera. It’s not that I even need that info to play well, but that it would have made the different heroes feel more like individuals with their own play history, rather than how they are currently so interchangeable that the one unintentional death I had was nothing but n annoyance and didn’t bother me at all.

Character UI for the townscreen needs to be worked on in general, because it feels clunky and does not mesh well with maintaining a large roster of heroes. Rather than easily letting you sort heroes, set up teams and compare the stats of different characters, it’s a squashed together list where moving the portraits quickly becomes a hassle when they’re not already close to each other. Additionally, this means that ruthlessly dissecting which heroes are performing inadequately, like the game encourages, takes much effort than it should. You also can’t set up teams for your own ease of use, which makes the weakness of the drag and drop system stand out further and gets in the way of smooth preparations. The only visual indication any sort of party gets is when heroes that went on the most recent run get a mark, but there is otherwise no way to set up a party in an easily distinguishable way. This doesn’t mean that is impossible to get these things done anyway, but it does make it take more clicks than needed to fulfil a basic need of the player.

Also, minor quibble, but it gets annoying how you can’t always click away character barks and how long they’ll hover around, because it kills the pace. This gets especially grating when a hero has a curiosity related quirk activate, as those take a long time to resolve.

The constant reusing of bosses blunts any sense of progress. They should either have had one boss per difficulty for every dungeon (four new bosses) or two (sixteen new bosses), with more difficult versions of those you’d previously beaten as bonus bosses. That would also alleviate the grindy feeling of the mid and end game, since you’re not just building your party’s towards taking on the Darkest Dungeon, but also fighting meaningfully new encounters.

Another factor that worsens the tedium is how stress, quirks, virtues, and afflictions don’t meaningfully move beyond being situational buffs or debuffs, so character building isn’t fun either and you end up having nothing to tinker with by the mid game as you’ll have seen all the characters’ tricks. They are too easily gained, too easily lost and never lead to a hero developing some sort of identity. As a result, it doesn’t feel like you’re managing the mental state of your characters, but are healing a second healthbar that has somewhat different requirements.

Additionally, the sense of accomplishment that you’re supposed to get from getting loot is absent because of how heavily loot is subject to inflation. An average haul is about enough to upgrade one hero by one grade from start to finish, because as the rewards increase so too do the costs of upgrades and you never get suitably large windfalls even with bosses. This pattern isn’t abnormal by itself, but because the game is so heavily focused on doing constant dungeon runs that don’t vary all that much tedium sets in. It makes it feel like a free to play game with the microtransactions taken out.

Furthermore, the quirks and diseases are assigned so randomly that they feel disconnected from whatever run you just did. What you did or how you did it doesn’t seem to matter, resulting in there being no build up for the reveal of what quirks you get - you are only waiting to see if you’re going to get randomly punished or rewarded. Again, this makes it so finishing becomes dull faster than it should.

Music is meh, with not a single memorable track thus far and sometimes actively harming my enjoyment. I had one moment where the music for the townscreen ended and all that was left were the ambient noises, and I ended up liking it much better that way. It made the town much more atmospheric by making your stay there feel akin to a lull before the storm, but then the music came back and we were back to generic tunes. Sound effects are used appropriately, though: hinge noises, combat hits, torches being lit, and so on. Narrator also stays good throughout the game

It still looks great, though. This is not just in terms of their art style setting up the atmosphere, but how they succeed at making the gameplay more enjoyable through relatively simple visual effects. Rather than having expensive full-on animation that usually takes too long and of which the player will quickly get tired (HBS Shadowrun games) they use short bursts of zoom coupled with animation frames that convey the intended action to tell the player what’s happening. The result is that blows in combat feel impactful before you factor in the damage dealt. Usually an attack or interaction animation gets filtered out by the player and they focus solely on the result they get from the action, leading on the game having to rely on its mechanics to engage the player, but this is a great example of how making basic actions visually fun to execute can enhance the gameplay.

In the end, it’s a game with strong presentation that makes for a fun start but it's lacking in pacing and mechanical depth, which results in a weak middle point and end. I think it’s an interesting little thing in terms of what it could have been, but I don’t see myself playing it much again until bits of that potential get realised somehow.
 

Ivan

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
7,757
Location
California
Also, minor quibble, but it gets annoying how you can’t always click away character barks and how long they’ll hover around, because it kills the pace. This gets especially grating when a hero has a curiosity related quirk activate, as those take a long time to resolve.

:bravo:

Fucking A. "I LOVE OPENING BOXES" 4 seconds later OPENS BOX. I can fucking read, RED HOOK, jesus.
 

Renevent

Cipher
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
925

Pretty funny...that's gotta hurt lol.

That being said I disagree with the GOG argument I don't see why GOG's version of early access is better. Seems like that's a step moving back even further towards having gate keepers and being told what you can and can't buy. It assumes the consumer is a moron and needs Mommy to hold their hand and let them know what's worth buying. Steam, on the other hand, puts that power in the hands of it's community by letting them vote on EA games, and if an EA game get's enough attention they'll put it up as an EA release. Granted that also means more games of questionable quality get through, but there's a refund policy so even stupid consumers who are unable to appraise a game based on videos/screenshots/feedback/previews/etc can reverse a poor purchasing decision.

Maybe Steam could expand the refund policy for EA games, that I think would be an improvement, but I don't need the dudes over at Valve "curating" and deciding what would be fun and what wouldn't be...I can do that myself.
 

Lucky

Arcane
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
672
:bravo:

Fucking A. "I LOVE OPENING BOXES" 4 seconds later OPENS BOX. I can fucking read, RED HOOK, jesus.

It's especially great when it happens to the box that you were right about to open anyway, but now you have to wait for this guy's psychodrama to play out for something that would only have taken a second otherwise. Just show me the blurb after he activates the thing and let move around while reading it.
 

Ivan

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
7,757
Location
California
preaching to the choir, man


also, am I the only one that actually enjoys the ost? sounds like something out of Demon/Dark Souls hub
 

AMG

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
374
What music is there is alright, but there is not a lot of it so it get repetitive after a while.

Same can be said about every aspect of this game tbh, there just isn't enough content in this game to justify the browser mmo mechanics they employed. They should have taken a page out of FTL's book, where you have limited amount of dungeons to run before ITZ happens, and you have to level and equip your heroes as well as you can manage beforehand. Would make for some tension and hard decisions even with shallow mechanics that are in place. As it is, the only thing standing in your way is getting fed up with griding shit and quitting.

Also it would give it some replayability, with shorter playthroughs, what classes and trinkets you get would actually make some difference. Currently, I don't know why someone would touch it after finishing, considering the final dungeons are the only ones that are dangerous and wortwhile to play through.

A bit of a shame, because if you rearrange the elements in this game slightly it would be a lot better. Still, it is an okay time waster, best browser game I played not in browser.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Furthermore, the quirks and diseases are assigned so randomly that they feel disconnected from whatever run you just did. What you did or how you did it doesn’t seem to matter, resulting in there being no build up for the reveal of what quirks you get - you are only waiting to see if you’re going to get randomly punished or rewarded. Again, this makes it so finishing becomes dull faster than it should.

On top of the grind, this is one of my main issues with the game.
Which is especially sad since the whole stress and psychological effects of fighting eldritch horrors was one of the main selling points during their original pitch. Yet it turned out lolrandom and shallow.
At the very least they should have tied the quirks to the personal experience of each hero.
 

CryptRat

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
3,625
leper.jpg

occultist2.jpg

vestale.jpg
 

Wolfe

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
432
preaching to the choir, man


also, am I the only one that actually enjoys the ost? sounds like something out of Demon/Dark Souls hub


I love the OST, especially Combat in the Ruins and A Brief Respite.
 

Serus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
6,949
Location
Small but great planet of Potatohole
medieval setting
:retarded:


Same can be said about every aspect of this game tbh, there just isn't enough content in this game to justify the browser mmo mechanics they employed. They should have taken a page out of FTL's book, where you have limited amount of dungeons to run before ITZ happens, and you have to level and equip your heroes as well as you can manage beforehand. Would make for some tension and hard decisions even with shallow mechanics that are in place. As it is, the only thing standing in your way is getting fed up with griding shit and quitting.
This. In addition remake the quirk system to make them meaningful and result in more memorable characters with specific strengths and weaknesses not just spam of meaningless small +/- that is changing all the time and you could get a good game - the visuals/presentation is already excellent. <sad>
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
11,843
Location
Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Remake the quirk system to make them meaningful and result in more memorable characters with specific strengths and weaknesses not just spam of meaningless small +/- that is changing all the time
As much as I like the game, I have to agree here. With only one or two exceptions, I couldn't name you a single Quirk on any of my roster. All I do before each run is check to make sure no one is Phobic of the mission area (Ruins Phobe, etc.) and that's the extent of my caring about Quirks. The turnover rate is just too high and there are too many of them to register on my retinas. :(
 

Ivan

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
7,757
Location
California
The Perk/Quirk system is so arbitrary I haven't even touched the Sanitarium.

Anyway, has anyone actually explored the Darkest Dungeon? I've got some LV6 guys ready to rock but wanted to survey for any tips/
 

Invictus

Arcane
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
2,790
Location
Mexico
Divinity: Original Sin 2
I agree also that the biggest issues I have with the game is the unnecessary grinding, just higher specs enemies and bosses (no special attacks or even a fucking simple recolor for variety) and the facts quirks make no sense, if your chars just went through the warrens it is understandable they get a quirk (negative or positive) relative to the place they just explored as to somehow plan around your characters
I have been mostly playing Dragons Dogma p with a few breaks to play Darkest Dungeon and maybe that the way ut works best; a couple of dungeons maybe a boss run as to not get too tired of the grinding and lack of variety
 

Celerity

Takes 1337 hours to realise it's shit.
Village Idiot Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
1,096
You watched a video twice that length just so you could pick out the short little clip of Jim being a hypocrite and raging about me. But then I didn't expect consistency from you, I'm just sharing that there are intelligent people who figured out this game on their own without preconceptions or extensive histories.

This one only takes 3 minutes before it starts getting really good. :D
 

Mustawd

Guest
I have yet to understand why this game triggers you so much if it's not that good. there's obviously a ton of other games that have worse dev practices than the ones you are alleging. However, I'm not seeing you rage 24/7 on those. I mean seriously man...I just don't get it.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
11,843
Location
Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
You watched a video twice that length just so you could pick out the short little clip of Jim being a hypocrite and raging about me. But then I didn't expect consistency from you
Say what? Jim who? What video? I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. :lol: I guess "you" means "you Codex people".
 

Celerity

Takes 1337 hours to realise it's shit.
Village Idiot Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
1,096
Mustawd Because it's the best example of something that could have been amazing failing cataclysmically because overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer, and it also made it very personal. All those other shitty games I've encountered, the ones with one dimensio0nal mechanics that do the opposite of their stated design intent or just were made by lazy hackjob devs? They never picked fights with me and bred a community for the same purpose. So something like Diablo 3 is basically the same casual AoE spam fest as Derpest, but once they started being honest about that fact and embraced the fact they are a half hour filler casual game in between real games... I can actually still enjoy it for that, despite the disappointment of it not being like D1/D2. Instead of the devs and community regarding me as public enemy number 1... they just don't give a fuck who I am, which is actually how I prefer it. I'm not a high profile person, I actually hate attention, but I'll damn sure endure it if necessary.
 

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