Diablo Immortal - MMO ARPG for mobile platforms - massive butthurt at Blizzcon

[Goldschmidt]

What the fuck is up with that pink doughnut?

The glorious nation of the dutch spoken people, led by our knight-king Swen, has forbidden the countrymen to play this pos of a game from the U.S.S.A.

 

[Myobi]

Spain is also moving to ban loot boxes, and I think Germany is also planning to do the same... I guess it's a matter of time it spreads to the rest of Europe, and then it’s either the companies give up on EU sales, or just make a better version of the game without all that cancer attached to it so they can release it here.

 

[somerandomdude]

Diablo Immortal isn't a game where you kill mobs for loot and upgrades, it's a game where Blizzard farms dumb cucks for shekels.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Spain is also moving to ban loot boxes, and I think Germany is also planning to do the same... I guess it's a matter of time it spreads to the rest of Europe, and then it’s either the companies give up on EU sales, or just make a better version of the game without all that cancer attached to it so they can release it here.

give me a coherent reason to ban lootboxes but not gambling

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Spain is also moving to ban loot boxes, and I think Germany is also planning to do the same... I guess it's a matter of time it spreads to the rest of Europe, and then it’s either the companies give up on EU sales, or just make a better version of the game without all that cancer attached to it so they can release it here.

give me a coherent reason to ban lootboxes but not gambling

Most lootboxes are aimed at games with rating playable with kids below adult age. There is difference between an adult with functional brain with expandable money throwing it out and with kids being hooked to consoom gambling from even when they are below 10 years old.

Japan, China, Korea decided with compromise that people below certain age are limited in spending on mobile games. Of course outside of China who require actual ID verification the enforcement has been... dubious. But in the end such a thing is also responsibility of the parents (e.g. not having your CC linked to phone your kids use).

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Spain is also moving to ban loot boxes, and I think Germany is also planning to do the same... I guess it's a matter of time it spreads to the rest of Europe, and then it’s either the companies give up on EU sales, or just make a better version of the game without all that cancer attached to it so they can release it here.

give me a coherent reason to ban lootboxes but not gambling

Most lootboxes are aimed at games with rating playable with kids below adult age. There is difference between an adult with functional brain with expandable money throwing it out and with kids being hooked to consoom gambling from even when they are below 10 years old.

Japan, China, Korea decided with compromise that people below certain age are limited in spending on mobile games. Of course outside of China who require actual ID verification the enforcement has been... dubious. But in the end such a thing is also responsibility of the parents (e.g. not having your CC linked to phone your kids use).

if lootboxes were aged restricted then kids have equal access to them as apps that let you gamble tho

 

[InD_ImaginE]

if lootboxes were aged restricted then kids have equal access to them as apps that let you gamble tho

Sorry Rusty maybe this is because I am not an English native but can you rephrase it? Do you mean that kids now in EU has access to gambling apps?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

if lootboxes were aged restricted then kids have equal access to them as apps that let you gamble tho

Sorry Rusty maybe this is because I am not an English native but can you rephrase it? Do you mean that kids now in EU has access to gambling apps?

If restrictions were placed on lootboxes that prevented them from being in games targeted towards children, their accessibility would be equivalent to that of gambling apps.


And as we all know, no kids ever watch R-rated movies or play R-rated games.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

If restrictions were placed on lootboxes that prevented them from being in games targeted towards children, their accessibility would be equivalent to that of gambling apps.


And as we all know, no kids ever watch R-rated movies or play R-rated games.

It depends on how you do it. In case of full restrictions on games targeted towards children then yes. Only adult should with ID identification should be able to play. A compromise can be made in which the game is accessible but the lootbox feature is disabled until ID verification. Or have the lootbox but disable real money buying of them until ID verification (this is how China does it, kids can still bypass it if they have shit parents that let the kids use their ID ofc).

And as we all know, no kids ever watch R-rated movies or play R-rated games.

No Rusty the issue is not the "content" like in R rated movies or games. The issue is developing bad habitual issue and children psychology. It is gambling after all. Regulation should be done much like actual gambling is regulated as far as age restriction goes (as I understand there are much more regulation in gambling as it concern actual money and related to crime but those can be ignored as rolling for digital items has no inherent monetary value).

 

[ADL]

When you're operating a casino you have to report to a gambling commission along with producing all sorts of financials that normal businesses don't and disclosure of the odds running on your machines. Along with age restrictions. Not sure why video game companies shouldn't have these existing measures against gambling applied to their gambling boxes and gacha bullshit. It's the same shit and the only reason it doesn't yet is because the dinosaurs in Washington probably don't even know what a goddamn computer is.

When a multi-billion dollar industry starts hiring psychologists to design monetization strategies and algorithms to fleece people who are genetically predisposed towards gambling addictions, then you're just asking to be regulated.

b-b-b-but muh invisible hand of the free market

Laissez faire libertarians and cuckservative capitalists who defend a corporation's right to financially rape them with impunity can go fuck themselves.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Only adult should with ID identification should be able to play.

You remember when Youtube was following european regulations and required europeans to submit ID to view videos not suitable for minors?
I have a feeling this might be another one of those things that ends up backfiring hilariously.

A compromise can be made in which the game is accessible but the lootbox feature is disabled until ID verification.

Sensible.

No Rusty the issue is not the "content" like in R rated movies or games. The issue is developing bad habitual issue and children psychology.

*ahem*
akshually...
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...ames-probably-arent-good-for-children.135237/
take a copium pill before reading that


Do you support restricting Magic The Gathering from advertising & being sold to children too?
If not, why? All these lootbox mechanics are modeled after MTG's. For example, refer to the original design document of Diablo that directly references MTG.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

When you're operating a casino you have to report to a gambling commission along with producing all sorts of financials that normal businesses don't and disclosure of the odds running on your machines. Along with age restrictions. Not sure why video game companies shouldn't have these existing measures against gambling applied to their gambling boxes and gacha bullshit. It's the same shit and the only reason it doesn't yet is because the dinosaurs in Washington probably don't even know what a goddamn computer is.

When a multi-billion dollar industry starts hiring psychologists to design monetization strategies and algorithms to fleece people who are genetically predisposed towards gambling addictions, then you're just asking to be regulated.

b-b-b-but muh invisible hand of the free market

Laissez faire libertarians and cuckservative capitalists who defend a corporation's right to financially rape them with impunity can go fuck themselves.

Maybe parents should stop handing their credit card over to children.

oh no, I said the 'p' word and expected them to be responsible.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

*ahem*
akshually...
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...ames-probably-arent-good-for-children.135237/
take a copium pill before reading that


Do you support restricting Magic The Gathering from advertising & being sold to children too?
If not, why? All these lootbox mechanics are modeled after MTG's. For example, refer to the original design document of Diablo that directly references MTG.

Yeah I know that card packs are basically lootbox. But the level of engagement of physical card game compared to digital card game that bomberdize you to spent is different.

And back then when you want to buy MTG or Yugioh card packs you ask your parents for money. You feel the effort to be able to spend cash. These days all of them are at finger tips where kids doesn't really understand the value of money they are spending. This is building up for bad addicts.

All being said lootboxes in video games are as much issue of gambling regulation and child protection, the latter is even more so, at least the perspective in Korea, Japan, China where these kind of games are in their natural habitat. The issue to begin with would be solved by good parenting essentially but it seems in 21st century that's too much to ask for hence the need of government intervention.

 

[Black]

 

[ADL]

Do you support restricting Magic The Gathering from advertising & being sold to children too?
If not, why? All these lootbox mechanics are modeled after MTG's. For example, refer to the original design document of Diablo that directly references MTG.

Can't speak for him but all blind box items should be illegal. If your entire business model depends on a game of chance for a particular good instead of selling that good directly, then your business probably shouldn't exist and we'd certainly be better off without it as a society.

Maybe parents should stop handing their credit card over to children.

oh no, I said the 'p' word and expected them to be responsible.

Addicts lie and steal to get what they want. Especially from family members. We're talking about mechanisms that are specifically designed by psychologists to exploit genetically inherited addictions while they're being marketed to children. It's gotten to the point where casinos are sponsoring streamers and giving them millions of dollars in free-play. It's obscene and the idea that this industry should get away with it because any government interference is an overreach is even worse.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Yeah I know that card packs are basically lootbox. But the level of engagement of physical card game compared to digital card game that bomberdize you to spent is different.

And back then when you want to buy MTG or Yugioh card packs you ask your parents for money. You feel the effort to be able to spend cash. These days all of them are at finger tips where kids doesn't really understand the value of money they are spending. This is building up for bad addicts.

All being said lootboxes in video games are as much issue of gambling regulation and child protection, the latter is even more so, at least the perspective in Korea, Japan, China where these kind of games are in their natural habitat. The issue to begin with would be solved by good parenting essentially but it seems in 21st century that's too much to ask for.

The only type of gacha mechanic banned in Japan is "complete gacha": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gacha_game#Complete_gacha
which isn't lootboxes
South Korea has no lootbox regulation at all, and idk about CHYNA.

Addicts lie and steal to get what they want. Especially from family members.

You can't replace parenting with the state, no matter how hard you try or how good your intentions are.

We're talking about mechanisms that are specifically designed by psychologists to exploit genetically inherited addictions while they're being marketed to children.

So you're OK with them exploiting vulnerable individuals... as long as they're exactly 18 years old or above?

It's gotten to the point where casinos are sponsoring streamers and giving them millions of dollars in free-play.

neat

It's obscene and the idea that this industry should get away with it because any government interference is an overreach is even worse.

Maybe they get away with it because parents are failing at being parents?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

also, the personal attacks "U JUST WANT KIDS 2 BE EXPLOITED!!!!!" are so incredibly typical that they aren't even worth responding to beyond posting an image

 

[InD_ImaginE]

The only type of gacha mechanic banned in Japan is "complete gacha": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gacha_game#Complete_gacha
which isn't lootboxes
South Korea has no lootbox regulation at all, and idk about CHYNA.

they are regulating spending real money not outright ban. As I say, people certain age can only spend certain amount. E.g. below 10 years old its like 5 dollar per week iirc. And as I say, the only one with strong enforcement is China where you are regularly asked to show your ID before playing and do gacha/lootbox

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The only type of gacha mechanic banned in Japan is "complete gacha": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gacha_game#Complete_gacha
which isn't lootboxes
South Korea has no lootbox regulation at all, and idk about CHYNA.

they are regulating spending real money not outright ban. As I say, people certain age can only spend certain amount. E.g. below 10 years old its like 5 dollar per week iirc. And as I say, the only one with strong enforcement is China where you are regularly asked to show your ID before playing and do gacha/lootbox

Ah yes, China, there's a country we should model ours after.
Do you propose we begin implementing a social credit score system too so we can really punish those ne'er-do-wells? In the name of protecting children, of course.

 

[ADL]

You can't replace parenting with the state, no matter how hard you try or how good your intentions are.

Americans and the world at large have already made peace with the fact that gambling shouldn't be marketed to children. I just don't see why gambling boxes shouldn't have established gambling restrictions applied to them.

So you're OK with them exploiting vulnerable individuals... as long as they're exactly 18 years old or above?

21+ generally.

Maybe they get away with it because parents are failing at being parents?

They get away with it because our elected officials are dinosaurs that are incapable of handling anything related to technology. Much less a closed source algorithm designed by psychologists to fleece people out of their money. Existing legislation being expanded to cover these practices is an inevitability but for the sake of the social fabric... The sooner, the better because much like the MTG comparison I keep hearing about, there seems to be this idea that fucked up things should be "grandfathered in" because that's what a bunch of manchildren grew up with.

Ah yes, China, there's a country we should model ours after.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

21+ generally.

So it's totally OK to exploit a vulnerable person as long as they're an adult?

They get away with it because our elected officials are dinosaurs that are incapable of handling anything related to technology. Much less a closed source algorithm designed by psychologists to fleece people out of their money. Existing legislation being expanded to cover these practices is an inevitability but for the sake of the social fabric... The sooner, the better because much like the MTG comparison I keep hearing about, there seems to be this idea that fucked up things should be "grandfathered in" because that's what a bunch of manchildren grew up with.

Why are lootboxes are such a big problem in China yet not so in America & Europe? China clearly has the more strict laws here. Why aren't they working? Why do they have to keep enacting tougher regulations? What is the magic regulation that would just make all this stop that apparently even China seems unable to find?
And can you explain to me how a child would have trouble pretending to be 18+ if they already have access to their parent's credit card? Seriously, I want a good answer to this. How do you prevent children from lying when they're already lying about who they are to make purchases in the first place?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Oh, and here's a bonus for "just regulate it!"

The law also banned game publishers from directly selling "lottery tickets" such as loot boxes. In June 2017, Blizzard Entertainment announced that, "in line with the new laws and regulations", loot boxes in their game Overwatch would no longer be available for purchase in China. Players would instead buy in-game currency and receive loot boxes as a "gift" for making the purchase

Yeah, there's no way they won't just get around that in five seconds.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

The only type of gacha mechanic banned in Japan is "complete gacha": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gacha_game#Complete_gacha
which isn't lootboxes
South Korea has no lootbox regulation at all, and idk about CHYNA.

they are regulating spending real money not outright ban. As I say, people certain age can only spend certain amount. E.g. below 10 years old its like 5 dollar per week iirc. And as I say, the only one with strong enforcement is China where you are regularly asked to show your ID before playing and do gacha/lootbox

Ah yes, China, there's a country we should model ours after.
Do you propose we begin implementing a social credit score system too so we can really punish those ne'er-do-wells? In the name of protecting children, of course.

Nice slippery slope fallacy Rusty.

But I guess you do you. Certainly I do agree that ID system to enforce transaction is a good thing. Much like you need ID to buy tobacco or alcohol. But if the extend of your argument is "CHINA BAD" then there is nothing to say

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Nice slippery slope fallacy Rusty.

Ah yes, the slippery slope "fallacy"
*looks at western society*

Yes, """fallacy""".

But if the extend of your argument is "CHINA BAD" then there is nothing to say

And if you want to copy China, I'm sure you could arrange to just, idk, live there.

 

[Ryzer]

There's nothing wrong with regulations as long as it's good for the people

Maybe parents should stop handing their credit card over to children.

Or maybe it works like a drug and the children can't control himself anymore? To the point that the parent has no other choice than handing him credit card.