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Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
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Frostfell
On late 80s/90s :
  • Wizardry games
  • Might & Magic games
  • Ravenloft : Strahd s possession + Stone Prophet
  • Ultima Underworld
  • TES 1&2 : Arena & Daggerfall
  • Menzoberranzan
  • Dungeon Hack
  • System Shock.
  • Eye of the Beholder
  • DeathKeep
We also got great first person RPG's on 00s and 2010s(not dungeon crawlers). VtMB and Fallout New Vegas are the most iconic examples. We are getting a lot of great RPG this year. Solasta, Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, KoTC2, but not a single one on FP.

The first RPG of my life was M&M VII - For Blood and honor, a game where you could become a freaking lich and have a dragon familiar.

HfXJVuZ.png


FP RPG's are becoming each year more rarer. And the last game which remembers me of old school dungeon crawlers is Grimoire. I will play it again soon.
 
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Sigourn

uooh afficionado
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I wouldn't say VtM:B and New Vegas fall in the same category as other dungeon crawlers you mentioned. Same with System Shock for that matter.

Dungeon crawlers are still popular in Japan. No idea what's not the case anymore in the West, though (with indie developers at least).
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
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3,454
Depends what you consider an RPG:

Cyberpunk 2077?
StarCrawlers?
The Outer Worlds?

Are First Person RPGs rarer? Yes. Are they dead? Not yet.
 

Gandalf

Arbiter
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Yes, they are rare, but they're still being made. I know about a couple of projects in the making. i believe Der Geisterjäger is coming this year. You get also some abominations like Avowed, TES VI, Inexile's Arcanum style first person RPG. Heh.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
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Frostfell
I wouldn't say VtM:B and New Vegas fall in the same category as other dungeon crawlers you mentioned. Same with System Shock for that matter.

Never said that they are dungeon crawlers, only FP RPG's.

Are First Person RPGs rarer? Yes. Are they dead? Not yet.

You are right.

i believe Der Geisterjäger is coming this year. You get also some abominations like Avowed, TES VI, Inexile's Arcanum style first person RPG. Heh.

TES stopped being an RPG long time ago, but nice point.
 

Gargaune

Magister
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After it we also got great first person RPG's on 00s and 2010s. VtMB and Fallout New Vegas are the most iconic examples.
When you consider Action-RPGs like New Vegas you have your answer - they didn't strictly "die out", they got absorbed by the hybrid genre. Traditional cRPGs have ended up favouring isometric or similar perspectives, which makes some sense given the advantages for tactical gameplay, while the FPP has come to be monopolised by Action-RPGs with their benefits and shortcomings, titles like Skyrim and Fallout 4, Cyberpunk 2077 etc. It's not the perspective's fault that these games' RPG mechanics are often perfunctory, but rather they're a victim of the genre's mass appeal.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
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I wouldn't say VtM:B and New Vegas fall in the same category as other dungeon crawlers you mentioned. Same with System Shock for that matter.

Never said that they are dungeon crawlers, only FP RPG's.

I'm aware of what you said. I'm saying that your question is flawed.
The problem is not that "first person RPGs died". The problem is that the dungeon crawler genre died, and the only remaining first person RPGs are made by a handful of companies with high budgets (Bethesda, and Cyberpunk 2077 by CDPR).
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut I helped put crap in Monomyth
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Darth Canoli

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Perched on a tree
On late 80s/90s :
  • Wizardry games
  • Might & Magic games
HfXJVuZ.png


I mean, we can call empire of ember a good FP RPG, but FP RPG's are becoming each year more rarer. And the last game which remembers me of old school dungeon crawlers is Grimoire.

Or maybe the genre is Dead because it reached a peak with Wizardry 8 and the player base was expecting too much afterward.

But we're going to get a faithful Might & Magic spiritual successor, a decent looking Wizardry 8 look-alike and even better, Call of Saregnar, which look like the best the genre has to offer, being a Betrayal at Krondor spiritual successor.

P.S. I don't remember ever getting this dragon follower, maybe i just forgot or maybe it's because i always have all followers slots full early on.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut I helped put crap in Monomyth

Cryomancer

Arcane
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P.S. I don't remember ever getting this dragon follower, maybe i just forgot or maybe it's because i always have all followers slots full early on.

Only Warlocks can get him.
 

Moaning_Clock

SmokeSomeFrogs
Developer
Joined
Feb 7, 2021
Messages
536
Never thought about that but aside from blobbers and some Bethesda titles it's seems more or less so. First Person RPGs only seem giant because of Bethesda I think. Weird
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut I helped put crap in Monomyth
Plenty of these you haven't played are just as good as the classics. The only difference is you aren't 12 so you notice the shortcomings now.
 

Moaning_Clock

SmokeSomeFrogs
Developer
Joined
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Messages
536
What about quality blobers with great graphics?

Except for LoG 1 and 2, there aren't so many blobbers with graphics that are considered great among a lot of people. I really like Legend of Amberland style and want to play it but it's far from what most people perceive as great graphics. But playing LoG 1 and 2 and the mods is enough for 2 months at least.
Operencia: The Stolen Sun, Dungeon Kingdom: Sign of the Moon, Vaporum (and Lockdown), The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians will fit the requirements more. StarCrawlers and the upcoming Geisterjäger look great but don't have the typical more realistic style. Can't say anything about gameplay for most of them.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
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9,537
When you consider Action-RPGs like New Vegas you have your answer - they didn't strictly "die out", they got absorbed by the hybrid genre. Traditional cRPGs have ended up favouring isometric or similar perspectives, which makes some sense given the advantages for tactical gameplay, while the FPP has come to be monopolised by Action-RPGs with their benefits and shortcomings, titles like Skyrim and Fallout 4, Cyberpunk 2077 etc. It's not the perspective's fault that these games' RPG mechanics are often perfunctory, but rather they're a victim of the genre's mass appeal.
The true Action-RPGs, with combat systems that are more detailed and dependent on the player's physical skill, have used third-person perspective, e.g. Demon's/Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma, because the player needs to see their character and exact spatial relationships in order to successfully apply the combat system. The two subgenres of RPGs that still use first-person perspective are Open-World RPGs (Elder Scrolls, new Fallout, Kingdom Come: Deliverance) and blobbers.

Except for LoG 1 and 2, there aren't so many blobbers with graphics that are considered great among a lot of people. I really like Legend of Amberland style and want to play it but it's far from what most people perceive as great graphics. But playing LoG 1 and 2 and the mods is enough for 2 months at least.
Operencia: The Stolen Sun, Dungeon Kingdom: Sign of the Moon, Vaporum (and Lockdown), The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians will fit the requirements more. StarCrawlers and the upcoming Geisterjäger look great but don't have the typical more realistic style. Can't say anything about gameplay for most of them.
The Bard's Tale IV also had decent graphics, once you moved past the mundane tutorial and starting areas into the first proper dungeon, and it also used first-person perspective outside of combat.

wXzpdiH.png


0Qsx2XM.png


VIJNk5q.png



Plus it had the best-ever rendition of Bigby's Fiery Pimp Slap:
M2teB9n.png
 

Zer0wing

Cipher
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
2,607
The true Action-RPGs, with combat systems that are more detailed and dependent on the player's physical skill, have used third-person perspective, e.g. Demon's/Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma, because the player needs to see their character and exact spatial relationships in order to successfully apply the combat system. The two subgenres of RPGs that still use first-person perspective are Open-World RPGs (Elder Scrolls, new Fallout, Kingdom Come: Deliverance) and blobbers.
Shadow Tower and Kings Fiels 4 says hello.
Dark Souls lol.
 

Nifft Batuff

Cipher
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
2,615
FP was relegated to be the exception by console-fication trends, since 3rdP is more suited for gamepads.
 

Gargaune

Magister
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
2,171
The true Action-RPGs, with combat systems that are more detailed and dependent on the player's physical skill, have used third-person perspective, e.g. Demon's/Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma, because the player needs to see their character and exact spatial relationships in order to successfully apply the combat system. The two subgenres of RPGs that still use first-person perspective are Open-World RPGs (Elder Scrolls, new Fallout, Kingdom Come: Deliverance) and blobbers.
That is the more common approach, with TPP being dominant in the Action-RPG segment as a function of the type of combat and platforming as well as showcasing the protagonist, but FPP is still preferrable for games that rely heavily on shooter-driven mechanics, where precision outweighs peripheral awareness, or embodiment for Immersive Sim types.

Either way, the point stands, FPP cRPGs have been largely subsumed by the hybrid Action-RPG genre they helped spawn. Consider the developer's thinking - if you set out to make an RPG, why would you sacrifice the tactical benefits of an isometric-like camera for a FPP (or close-up TPP) with its higher requirements for graphical fidelity, if you're not also going to take advantage of the mechanics typical of the more popular Action-RPG genre? We're talking about increasing costs and limiting the target market, so it's naturally relegated to more niche enterprises like Legend of Grimrock or Grimoire, where nostalgia or novelty (for younger demographics) are primary selling points.

And none of that is to say that today's common FPP RPGs, i.e. Action-RPGs, must inherently be poor RPGs. Sure, the likes of Cyberpunk barely qualify, but DX4's systemic underpinnings are very solid, even if not quite as compelling as its hallowed ancestor's. And, personally, I'm quite looking forward to RatTower's Monomyth.
 

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