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Divinity Divinity: Original Sin - Enhanced Edition

Atchodas

Augur
Joined
Apr 23, 2015
Messages
1,047
Which is better to use now for Hybrid Melee+Spells type of characters ( Shadowblade,Cleric,Battlemage ) Lonewolf or Glasscanon as you cant combine both anymore , lonewolf gives more skillpoints that is great for hybrid character but then i wont have enough AP to use all of that , glasscanon seems kinda weak now but allows to have a henchmen
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Is there any way to use
Black Cove bloodstone
as
second healing stone in the quest where you have to decide which of the patients lives or dies 'cause Evelyn only has one
?

I'm not entirely sure, but I think the quest might resolve itself before that, i.e. the two guys are gone.
hose two are not dependent chronologically, so it's entirely possible to go clear Black Cove before you ever drop in to the House of Healing, so you can have a bloodstone on you with both patients still alive, but you apparently can't do the logical thing and use the second stone to save the other guy despite it being established that it can do exactly that.

Awfully sloppy.
:decline:
of
:swen:
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,917
Pathfinder: Wrath
It's interesting because they had the exact same quest in DD, but you could find out a book which told you how to copy the stone with a mirror in a lake. Now we can obtain 2 stones, but we can't use them for the same purpose, weird. It's railroady and forces a "moral dilemma", which is neither moral nor a dilemma.

I'm over "moral dilemmas" in games, they are always cheap and unsatisfying. I want ideological ones.
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
Patron
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
18,437
Location
Mars
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Yup me too, they almost always feel forced. "Look we have dark choices to be made in our game!"
 

Mustawd

Guest
Codex: We want C&C!

Devs: Really? Oh ok. Well, it's included now

Codex: Meh, the choices don't even matter.

Devs: Yeah, I guess not. Ok, I made them matter to the PC quite a bit.

Codex: Ugh, wtf? Why are these choices so obviously good or bad? C&C in real life is a lot more subtle and grey. I'm not a kid anymore. Jesus.

Devs: My bad....you're right. My mistake. Ok, it took quite some effort, but I fleshed out the characters to make them actual people, made the quests and storyline less epic and more grounded, and structured the C&C to reflect the complex intricacies of real life drama that you all crave.

Codex: Dude, I already live real life on a day to day basis. Can't you just make a good cheesy high fantasy rpg like Baldur's Gate?


Devs: You know what? Fuck you guys. I quit and making mobile games from now on. At least that crowd knows what it wants.

Codex: Ugh, why is there so much decline in the world? Is making a good rpg THAT hard?
 

Black

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
1,873,199
Codex: We want C&C!

Devs: Really? Oh ok. Well, it's included now

Codex: Meh, the choices don't even matter.

Devs: Yeah, I guess not. Ok, I made them matter to the PC quite a bit.

Codex: Ugh, wtf? Why are these choices so obviously good or bad? C&C in real life is a lot more subtle and grey. I'm not a kid anymore. Jesus.

Devs: My bad....you're right. My mistake. Ok, it took quite some effort, but I fleshed out the characters to make them actual people, made the quests and storyline less epic and more grounded, and structured the C&C to reflect the complex intricacies of real life drama that you all crave.

Codex: Dude, I already live real life on a day to day basis. Can't you just make a good cheesy high fantasy rpg like Baldur's Gate?


Devs: You know what? Fuck you guys. I quit and making mobile games from now on. At least that crowd knows what it wants.

Codex: Ugh, why is there so much decline in the world? Is making a good rpg THAT hard?
Who are the fleshed out characters? The edgelord Jahan who can't shut the fuck up about demons?
 

Black

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
1,873,199
So I started to play the EE and found out what they did to stealth. Points invested no long reduce the AP cost in combat. Making stealth completely useless in combat. Why would they do this? This was my favorite game mechanic.
It got :whatisfun:'d.

I remember all the good times I had in M&Ms, Arcanum and so on, thinking to myself "boy, this wouldn't be as good if it wasn't so balanced".
Because, you know, all the great rpgs and rpg series are known for their balance.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
It's interesting because they had the exact same quest in DD, but you could find out a book which told you how to copy the stone with a mirror in a lake. Now we can obtain 2 stones, but we can't use them for the same purpose, weird. It's railroady and forces a "moral dilemma", which is neither moral nor a dilemma.

I'm over "moral dilemmas" in games, they are always cheap and unsatisfying. I want ideological ones.
Moral dilemmas rarely work in games, not in the least because very few devs have guts to make being goody two shoes suboptimal from self-interested POV, so instead of having juxtaposition of moral VS material, pragmatic or even survival values we get moral VS hurr EVULZ.

Witcher 1 kind of worked, as you could reap lasting and nontrivial rewards by being an asshole and you had to weigh possible distant consequences of your choice.
To a lesser degree so does Skyrim (of all games) I guess, as daedric quests often involve choice between doing something heinous to get a unique reward and explicit refusal that forfeits it.

Yup me too, they almost always feel forced. "Look we have dark choices to be made in our game!"
More like "Look we have derp choices to be made in our game!".

Anyway, the problem with this quest is that it doesn't account for all the possibilities. If the quest is designed around particular condition being fulfilled at certain point during this quest, then either this condition must be guaranteed by the remaining game design, or there must be an alternative branch triggered if this condition fails (or both if you want to account for the possibly of player inventing some sequence of actions that makes normal person's brain water but just happens to break your intended flow).

Apart from that it's not even a particularly good quest as the choice involved isn't terribly substantial and lacks lasting consequences.
 

Black

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
1,873,199
I'll have you gents know that I bitched to our Codexian Larian member about it way before EE. It being getting the Cove Bloodstone and not being able to heal the 2 dudes in Cyseal.
Instead they made the game more story heavy and balanced, because that's what it needed.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,917
Pathfinder: Wrath
Moral dilemmas rarely work in games, not in the least because very few devs have guts to make being goody two shoes suboptimal from self-interested POV, so instead of having juxtaposition of moral VS material, pragmatic or even survival values we get moral VS hurr EVULZ.

Witcher 1 kind of worked, as you could reap lasting and nontrivial rewards by being an asshole and you had to weigh possible distant consequences of your choice.
To a lesser degree so does Skyrim (of all games) I guess, as daedric quests often involve choice between doing something heinous to get a unique reward and explicit refusal that forfeits it.

I don't think they should be aiming for a specific category of choice, they should give us enough choices which are logical (and possible for the type of character you created, i.e. no frail nerds lifting heavy rocks) to make in a given scenario and have logical consequences. Then have good enough writers to make those choices interesting in the context of the narrative. They might also throw out conventional concepts of morality altogether, if that is even on the table at all.
 
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Orobis

Arcane
Sychophantic Noob
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
1,066
Started playing this again recently and after about 20 hours on the EE and roughly 50 on classic, im enjoying it somewhat but i think classic is the better version. Rogues have been nerfed pretty hard, having winged fleet is a must, and their damage output doesn't seem as high as in classic. I also find i'm spending way more time trying to get into position to back-stab and avoid damage than actually do damage like in classic, i guess that's 'balance' for ya. I also prefer the single wielding double back-stab attack/animation to the dual-wielding one, if just feels better when it connects. Archers might now be the better overall class just for the fact they are much less of a headache to micro.

The voice acting is all kinds of levels of awful, but it's not just the voices themselves it's the pace at which they talk which is far to slow for a lot of the dialogue encounters. It also show cases just how bad the overall writing is, DOS:EE is a much better game without it and 50 times less cringe.

Playing on Tactician mode the game is def. a lot harder than regular DOS, more mobs spawning in also makes each encounter that much more interesting, i'm really enjoying these tougher fights. Just killed the lighthouse monster and it was a rough but fun fight, had to reload once cause i screwed up my opener on the patrol.

So far i'm liking it combat wise. Itemization has improved so far from what iv'e seen though it's still too early to tell, and i didn't mind DOS classic itemization, it wasn't great or good even, not bad just adequate. I really can't judge yet if EE is better until i at least get to around the 40-50 hour mark. Cringe dialogue aside, if combat remains challenging like this to the end than i will def. finish the game but no promises.

Finaly, WTF did they do to the original cheese vendor voice actor? He was the most memorable character in the whole game.:argh:
 
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Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
10,003
Still, I can forgive them for that, if only because they actually bothered to voice all of the Codex's named NPCs (myself included :P)
They did? i just bombarded them with Deadly Spores, 16k exp in a single spell. And so the Codex fulfilled its duty.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
10,003
You missed on a quest exp and reward, should've killed them after.
Hm, maybe. Tbh im not too concerned, anything i get at level 14 will be useless by level 15, and quest xp is usually around as much as what i get for killing 2 dudes in any fight.

This game is very shit in a lot of areas.
 

Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,473
Couldn't finish the game even after the enhanced edition. First map is cool, after that it's too much mediocrity to bother.

Ditto. I think it's probably something to do with the writing - I liked the systems, but I just couldn't get myself to care enough to finish it.
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
14,048
It's definitely one of those games where you gotta REALLY like gameplay. If you always require the impetus of story to drive you to finish a game, I can see it being pretty bad.
 

Black

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
1,873,199
Couldn't finish the game even after the enhanced edition. First map is cool, after that it's too much mediocrity to bother.

Ditto. I think it's probably something to do with the writing - I liked the systems, but I just couldn't get myself to care enough to finish it.
One or all of larian's writers hit their head and thought they're amazing when having to spend multiple pages of text to relay what a "normal" writer would be able to do in a few sentences.
You get story, characters and lore you couldn't care less about.
Who the fuck found Ahru interesting? Who wanted Jahan to keep going about demons and about how edgy he is?
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
14,048
Couldn't finish the game even after the enhanced edition. First map is cool, after that it's too much mediocrity to bother.

Ditto. I think it's probably something to do with the writing - I liked the systems, but I just couldn't get myself to care enough to finish it.
One or all of larian's writers hit their head and thought they're amazing when having to spend multiple pages of text to relay what a "normal" writer would be able to do in a few sentences.
You get story, characters and lore you couldn't care less about.
Who the fuck found Ahru interesting? Who wanted Jahan to keep going about demons and about how edgy he is?

Most of the game was written by one guy, so your basic assumption is wrong. (And yeah, that's probably why it's shit.)

D:OS 2 will be the true test of whether Larian can still write a decently paced and motivated story. I don't think their writing has gotten magically worse, but D:OS was definitely horribly structured. We'll see with 2 whether D:OS was the result of being rushed with one dude.

Although, for fuck's sake... that whole "dialogue options are now a description of what you are asking or saying, rather than what you are saying" thing really isn't giving me good vibes.
 

Mustawd

Guest
One or all of larian's writers hit their head and thought they're amazing when having to spend multiple pages of text to relay what a "normal" writer would be able to do in a few sentences.

Someone needs to lock the writers in a room and force them to read all of Hemingway's books cover to cover to learn minimalist dialogue.
 

Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,473
Couldn't finish the game even after the enhanced edition. First map is cool, after that it's too much mediocrity to bother.

Ditto. I think it's probably something to do with the writing - I liked the systems, but I just couldn't get myself to care enough to finish it.
One or all of larian's writers hit their head and thought they're amazing when having to spend multiple pages of text to relay what a "normal" writer would be able to do in a few sentences.
You get story, characters and lore you couldn't care less about.
Who the fuck found Ahru interesting? Who wanted Jahan to keep going about demons and about how edgy he is?

Exactly. And it was structured in such a way that you had to pay attention to what they were saying, but it was so dull, so needlessly verbose, that I found myself skipping through dialogue and missing important details in a sea of irrelevant bad jokes.
 
Self-Ejected

Irenaeus

Self-Ejected
Patron
Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual The Real Fanboy
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
1,867,980
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Cidade Desespero
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera
It had a lot of funny jokes, but the bad jokes outnumbered them 88:14.

It had too many jokes. At the same time, it was a super serious story.

Terrible mix between premise and delivery.
 
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Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,917
Pathfinder: Wrath
That one guy had to rewrite the entire thing in the last minute, so I'm not excessively harsh.
It's definitely one of those games where you gotta REALLY like gameplay. If you always require the impetus of story to drive you to finish a game, I can see it being pretty bad.

The gameplay is great... until Luculla where it's too easy and it devolves into grinding, so you can't be motivated by that either.
 

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