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Dragon Age Dragon Age: The Veilguard Thread

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
19,331
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
BG2 was stellar, yes. And any RPG shipped after it would have a chance of being worse. But origins was A LOT worse. Had it been only slightly worse, your argument would have had merit. But it had reduced party size, reduced spell selection, trash mobs galore, and the m*rketing promised enslaving nations using powerful necromancy, which the end product failed to deliver.
The smaller world, worse MMO-style combat, worse side quests with nothing like the Cult of the Eyeless, introducing gather ten items quests. But DA:O is still a great and well-written game.
Writing is the main - and the only - asset.

BG2 is still written in the traditional RPG style of "find magic gizmo, slay evil wizard" - that was the neckbeard coders' idea of a story back then.

For DAO you can tell they hired a few actual writers. Story, characters, dialogues are vastly superior.

But the combat is RTwP, so automatically garbage, just like in BG, and the level design is just a bunch of samey looking corridors. Plus the game was developed in the 2000s, during the early 3D stage when everything looked like a diseased dogvomit.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2023
Messages
4,016
The story and characters were still donut steel versions of A Song of Ice and Fire and other fantasy series, much like any other rpg ever made, so I don't think the writing in DAO was any better.
 

Camel

Scholar
Joined
Sep 10, 2021
Messages
3,214
Writing is the main - and the only - asset.

BG2 is still written in the traditional RPG style of "find magic gizmo, slay evil wizard" - that was the neckbeard coders' idea of a story back then.

For DAO you can tell they hired a few actual writers. Story, characters, dialogues are vastly superior.

But the combat is RTwP, so automatically garbage, just like in BG, and the level design is just a bunch of samey looking corridors. Plus the game was developed in the 2000s, during the early 3D stage when everything looked like a diseased dogvomit.
The BG2 writing is superior to DA:O, it's mature and companions are great, they can have both heroic and tragic fate. BioWare didn't shy away from exploring mature themes like fictional racism unlike Veilguard, you save Viconia from being burned at the stake by a mob and she proceeds to call Jaheira a mongrel. Characters and dialogues are superior in BG2 and I love DA:O's characters. Voice-acting is better in DA:O and cinematics are great even with godawful graphics.
 

Ashen_Shugar

Educated
Joined
Aug 12, 2023
Messages
58
That just shows how much goodwill old Bioware had stocked up

At this point I think it's more EA not wanting the bad press from shutting down a major portfolio studio, right after their sport game earnings gave their stock valuation a heart attack.
Stockholders love it when you take dead weight out back and introduce it to a firing squad, though.

Edit:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
oZIVERZ.png
Burn Baby Burn!

:timetoburn:
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
37,153
Is there a single competent writer even left at Bioware?
Mary DeMarle's in charge, she was okay enough on the new-Deus Exes, Guardians of the Galaxy. Chris Avellone-approved, a man who loves his well-done midwittery.

I'd love to work with Mary DeMarle (Homeworld, Deus Ex: HR) at Eidos on... well... anything. She's great.
the writer, Mary DeMarle, Homeworld and DXHR is an amazing writer

Wishful thinking to hope EA would also hire on Chris as well to fulfill his dreams. :)
 

Aarwolf

Learned
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
585
PCGaymer is truly the trashiest of the trash.
Nothing but pure garbage.
Discovered it 2 years ago or so, read a few articles there and I was done, finished, never wanted to hear from it again.
Does a disservice to the PC community overall.
What a piece of shit.
Not that you are wrong (although The Gamer and Eurogamer are even worse than PCG, somehow) but that article is actually decent, at least in as much it does not portray Veilguard in positive light, at all.

It would be decent if the jurno wasn't trying to paint Origins as a second coming of Jesus. It wasn't - it was mediocre to decent at times rtwp game, released in dire times when there was almost nothing of value published in RPG genre. Yeah, there were some cool ideas, but today we should see it and measure it for what it really is.
If the only good DA game was "mediocre", why are we even wasting time getting upset over Veilguard's direction? What do we want to return to, some "mediocre" game nobody should even remember (because it's "mediocre")? No, while that game wasn't exactly the second coming of Jesus, it was still pretty damn awesome.

Dunno, I'm only here for the laughs.

PCGaymer is truly the trashiest of the trash.
Nothing but pure garbage.
Discovered it 2 years ago or so, read a few articles there and I was done, finished, never wanted to hear from it again.
Does a disservice to the PC community overall.
What a piece of shit.
Not that you are wrong (although The Gamer and Eurogamer are even worse than PCG, somehow) but that article is actually decent, at least in as much it does not portray Veilguard in positive light, at all.

It would be decent if the jurno wasn't trying to paint Origins as a second coming of Jesus. It wasn't - it was mediocre to decent at times rtwp game, released in dire times when there was almost nothing of value published in RPG genre. Yeah, there were some cool ideas, but today we should see it and measure it for what it really is.
If the only good DA game was "mediocre", why are we even wasting time getting upset over Veilguard's direction? What do we want to return to, some "mediocre" game nobody should even remember (because it's "mediocre")? No, while that game wasn't exactly the second coming of Jesus, it was still pretty damn awesome.
BG2 was pretty damn awesome. DAO was a huge disappointment in comparison.
No, BG2 was more than that. It was a generation defining masterpiece. With that logic, you should consider almost every game released after BG2 to be a disappointment because they're not as good.

You can be a fan of Real Madrid but enjoy watching AS Roma play too.

Gentle reminder that Codex used to be a place that considered BGII as a decline, as should every monocled person. It's where all the rot started - romances, bigger than life NPCs, diablo-like real time gameplay in place of turn based and so on and so forth.

Of course, BGII is still a great game, with beautiful visuals and stellar voice acting, that's formative for the whole genre for nest 20+ years but man must know the whole picture.
 

Old Hans

Arcane
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Messages
2,264
The story and characters were still donut steel versions of A Song of Ice and Fire and other fantasy series, much like any other rpg ever made, so I don't think the writing in DAO was any better.
: you are a donut steel if you think DA was anything like song of ice and fire.
 

Semiurge

Cipher
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
7,876
Location
Asp Hole
You know, I saw “folx” and just figured it was some new stupid woke shit, like “latinx,” like I guess the letter “K” is too aggressive or some other stupid bullshit now. “K” is bad, it’s too masculine, it’s too heteronormative, have you seen what happens when three of those things get together.

The K-sound is all kinds of bad, a microaggression. 'Ack' has a K-sound, and so on.
 

Dishonoredbr

Erudite
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
2,555
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2025-01-31/electronic-arts-slashes-bioware-after-dragon-age-sales-miss?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTczODM1MTgzMSwiZXhwIjoxNzM4OTU2NjMxLCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJTUVlXVThUMEFGQjQwMCIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJCMUVBQkI5NjQ2QUM0REZFQTJBRkI4MjI1MzgyQTJFQSJ9.91ztnslkcG02JwTwRRfVCXIJp8FOdqGBjCNQgz-bE8k&leadSource=uverify wall

Electronic Arts Slashes BioWare After ‘Dragon Age’ Sales Miss​

The studio has shrunk to less than 100 people following the release of Dragon Age: The Veilguard

Dragon Age: The Veilguard missed EA’s sales expectations by 50%, leading to cuts at the studio

Dragon Age: The Veilguard missed EA’s sales expectations by 50%, leading to cuts at the studio
Source: Electronic Arts

Gift this article

In this Article​

Electronic Arts Inc
122.82
3.49%
Follow
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Have a confidential tip for our reporters?Get in Touch
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By Jason Schreier
31 de janeiro de 2025 at 16:30 BRT
Save
Translate
This article is for subscribers only.

Hi everyone. Today we’re diving into the cuts at Electronic Arts Inc.’s BioWare, which were deeper than have been reported, but first...
This week’s top gaming news:

BioWare magic​

Late last year, after the release of the new role-playing game Dragon Age: The Veilguard, dozens of employees at developer BioWare were given some staffing news. Moving forward, they were going to be loaned out to other teams within their parent company, Electronic Arts, where they would work on various upcoming games like Iron Man and Skate.

The logic made sense. BioWare’s next game, a new installment in the popular sci-fi Mass Effect series, was in pre-production and did not need the entire studio. There were no other internal projects for everyone to work on. Instead of getting laid off, they would stay employed, working on other projects until Mass Effect was ready for them.
But this week, the group was informed that the loans had morphed into permanent relocations, according to people familiar with what happened. They were no longer BioWare employees who were temporarily on assignment elsewhere; now, they worked for whichever EA subsidiary had borrowed them. If they want to work at BioWare again in the future, they would have to look for job openings and re-apply.
This was an unwelcome development for some of the employees, who now find themselves on brand-new teams at studios they’d never planned to join. Some had come to BioWare to work on storied role-playing game franchises and found the idea of working on action or sports games less appealing.
But at least they got to keep their jobs. During the same reorganization this week, around two dozen other people at BioWare were laid off, according to the people familiar, who asked not to be identified discussing nonpublic information. Writer Trick Weekes and producer Jen Cheverie said on Bluesky that they were among the veteran workers who’d been cut.
BioWare is now down from more than 200 people two years ago to less than 100 today, according to the people familiar. A small team will remain to work on the next Mass Effect game — led by company veterans who oversaw the development on the original trilogy as well as on 2019’s Anthem — in hopes of expanding as the game gets further into production.
The company announced the reorganization on Wednesday, saying it planned to “become a more agile, focused studio,” without mentioning the job cuts and the relocation of staff permanently to other studios. A spokesperson for EA declined to comment on specific numbers.

It’s been a rough month for EA. Last week, the company’s shares plunged 18% after reporting preliminary holiday-season results that missed estimates and lowering its forecast for the fiscal year. The poor results were largely due to the underperformance of EA’s latest soccer game but the company also said that Dragon Age: The Veilguard reached 1.5 million players, missing sales expectations by 50%.
What may be most surprising is that EA, which has a long history of shuttering studios after a failure, is keeping BioWare around. The once-revered RPG studio, founded in 1995 by a trio of doctors, released a string of beloved titles throughout the 1990s and 2000s, including the first two Baldur’s Gate games, Dragon Age: Origins and the Mass Effect trilogy. But the studio has failed to release a hit since 2014’s Dragon Age: Inquisition.

Mass Effect: Andromeda, released in 2017, received mediocre reviews and was widely criticized for its bugs and uncanny animations. BioWare then pivoted to a live-service shooter with 2019’s Anthem, which was roundly panned and killed after less than two years. Both games were plagued by management issues, brutal deadline crunches and a belief — called “BioWare magic” — that everything would work out in the end.
With the single-player Dragon Age: The Veilguard, which had its own turbulent development cycle and was rebooted multiple times, the studio hoped to win back lapsed fans. Despite generally positive reviews, the game proved to be divisive among players, with some criticizing the writing, art style and linear level design.
But many observers and staff blame EA for the situation they put BioWare in — canceling an early version of Dragon Age in favor of one that would be required to have a “live-service” multiplayer component with recurring revenue, only to then reverse course, reverting once again back to the single-player format. It would be difficult for most game-makers to release something great under those conditions.

Now, BioWare studio head Gary McKay and Mass Effect executive producer Mike Gamble are essentially looking to reboot the company as they plunge forward on their next game. It will be a long road ahead, and what emerges will be a very different BioWare. But at least for now, the studio will continue.

What to play this weekend​

Speaking of BioWare, there’s a new game out helmed by the creative director of Dragon Age: Inquisition, Mike Laidlaw, who left the RPG studio in 2017. Eternal Strands, an action-RPG that allows players to manipulate elements like fire and ice to cause havoc and take down bosses, seems like a promising way to spend the weekend. I’ve only played a bit so far, but Stephen Totilo at Game File has raved about it, which makes me want to devote more time to experimenting with its chaotic systems.

You can reach Jason at jschreier10@bloomberg.net or confidentially at jasonschreier@protonmail.com.


BioWare is now down from more than 200 people two years ago to less than 100 today,
:dead:
 

Naraya

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
1,683
Location
Tuono-Tabr
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2025-01-31/electronic-arts-slashes-bioware-after-dragon-age-sales-miss?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTczODM1MTgzMSwiZXhwIjoxNzM4OTU2NjMxLCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJTUVlXVThUMEFGQjQwMCIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJCMUVBQkI5NjQ2QUM0REZFQTJBRkI4MjI1MzgyQTJFQSJ9.91ztnslkcG02JwTwRRfVCXIJp8FOdqGBjCNQgz-bE8k&leadSource=uverify wall

Electronic Arts Slashes BioWare After ‘Dragon Age’ Sales Miss​

The studio has shrunk to less than 100 people following the release of Dragon Age: The Veilguard

Dragon Age: The Veilguard missed EA’s sales expectations by 50%, leading to cuts at the studio

Dragon Age: The Veilguard missed EA’s sales expectations by 50%, leading to cuts at the studio
Source: Electronic Arts

Gift this article

In this Article​

Electronic Arts Inc
122.82
3.49%
Follow
How easy or hard was it to use Bloomberg.com today?
Share feedback
Have a confidential tip for our reporters?Get in Touch
Before it’s here, it’s on the Bloomberg Terminal
LEARN MORE
By Jason Schreier
31 de janeiro de 2025 at 16:30 BRT
Save
Translate
This article is for subscribers only.

Hi everyone. Today we’re diving into the cuts at Electronic Arts Inc.’s BioWare, which were deeper than have been reported, but first...
This week’s top gaming news:

BioWare magic​

Late last year, after the release of the new role-playing game Dragon Age: The Veilguard, dozens of employees at developer BioWare were given some staffing news. Moving forward, they were going to be loaned out to other teams within their parent company, Electronic Arts, where they would work on various upcoming games like Iron Man and Skate.

The logic made sense. BioWare’s next game, a new installment in the popular sci-fi Mass Effect series, was in pre-production and did not need the entire studio. There were no other internal projects for everyone to work on. Instead of getting laid off, they would stay employed, working on other projects until Mass Effect was ready for them.
But this week, the group was informed that the loans had morphed into permanent relocations, according to people familiar with what happened. They were no longer BioWare employees who were temporarily on assignment elsewhere; now, they worked for whichever EA subsidiary had borrowed them. If they want to work at BioWare again in the future, they would have to look for job openings and re-apply.
This was an unwelcome development for some of the employees, who now find themselves on brand-new teams at studios they’d never planned to join. Some had come to BioWare to work on storied role-playing game franchises and found the idea of working on action or sports games less appealing.
But at least they got to keep their jobs. During the same reorganization this week, around two dozen other people at BioWare were laid off, according to the people familiar, who asked not to be identified discussing nonpublic information. Writer Trick Weekes and producer Jen Cheverie said on Bluesky that they were among the veteran workers who’d been cut.
BioWare is now down from more than 200 people two years ago to less than 100 today, according to the people familiar. A small team will remain to work on the next Mass Effect game — led by company veterans who oversaw the development on the original trilogy as well as on 2019’s Anthem — in hopes of expanding as the game gets further into production.
The company announced the reorganization on Wednesday, saying it planned to “become a more agile, focused studio,” without mentioning the job cuts and the relocation of staff permanently to other studios. A spokesperson for EA declined to comment on specific numbers.

It’s been a rough month for EA. Last week, the company’s shares plunged 18% after reporting preliminary holiday-season results that missed estimates and lowering its forecast for the fiscal year. The poor results were largely due to the underperformance of EA’s latest soccer game but the company also said that Dragon Age: The Veilguard reached 1.5 million players, missing sales expectations by 50%.
What may be most surprising is that EA, which has a long history of shuttering studios after a failure, is keeping BioWare around. The once-revered RPG studio, founded in 1995 by a trio of doctors, released a string of beloved titles throughout the 1990s and 2000s, including the first two Baldur’s Gate games, Dragon Age: Origins and the Mass Effect trilogy. But the studio has failed to release a hit since 2014’s Dragon Age: Inquisition.

Mass Effect: Andromeda, released in 2017, received mediocre reviews and was widely criticized for its bugs and uncanny animations. BioWare then pivoted to a live-service shooter with 2019’s Anthem, which was roundly panned and killed after less than two years. Both games were plagued by management issues, brutal deadline crunches and a belief — called “BioWare magic” — that everything would work out in the end.
With the single-player Dragon Age: The Veilguard, which had its own turbulent development cycle and was rebooted multiple times, the studio hoped to win back lapsed fans. Despite generally positive reviews, the game proved to be divisive among players, with some criticizing the writing, art style and linear level design.
But many observers and staff blame EA for the situation they put BioWare in — canceling an early version of Dragon Age in favor of one that would be required to have a “live-service” multiplayer component with recurring revenue, only to then reverse course, reverting once again back to the single-player format. It would be difficult for most game-makers to release something great under those conditions.

Now, BioWare studio head Gary McKay and Mass Effect executive producer Mike Gamble are essentially looking to reboot the company as they plunge forward on their next game. It will be a long road ahead, and what emerges will be a very different BioWare. But at least for now, the studio will continue.

What to play this weekend​

Speaking of BioWare, there’s a new game out helmed by the creative director of Dragon Age: Inquisition, Mike Laidlaw, who left the RPG studio in 2017. Eternal Strands, an action-RPG that allows players to manipulate elements like fire and ice to cause havoc and take down bosses, seems like a promising way to spend the weekend. I’ve only played a bit so far, but Stephen Totilo at Game File has raved about it, which makes me want to devote more time to experimenting with its chaotic systems.

You can reach Jason at jschreier10@bloomberg.net or confidentially at jasonschreier@protonmail.com.


BioWare is now down from more than 200 people two years ago to less than 100 today,
:dead:
Yeah but honestly... EA has 20K (!) employees, there's a lot more fat to trim if they want to change the course.
 

processdaemon

Scholar
Patron
Joined
Jul 14, 2023
Messages
657
ywNwhj6.png


You know, there were signs.
I've bitched about that quote 2 or 3 times here and it still makes me mad every time I read it. Weekes comes off like a patronising, paternalistic twat and I'm glad he got booted. Maybe his next job should be with some company that makes shitty linear action games so he'll never have to sully himself accommodating player choice again.
 

Larianshill

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
2,360
VkIPccD.png


Autists are our next stage of evolution into superhumans. Even on resetera, there is someone capable of seeing that the emperor's naked.
 

Orange Clock

Educated
Joined
Jun 5, 2022
Messages
119
Between Andromeda, Anthem, and Veilguard, I'm not sure where the hype for a new Mass Effect could come from. Or how the ball can keep rolling.
Isn’t there a ME TV-series(or is it movie?) release coming soon? Maybe they hope to replicate Fallout/Witcher success
 

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