Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

Dexter

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
15,655
Do some people really think Fortnite will be around forever?

Every big multiplayer title is thought to be "too big to fail" in its golden age. They always wane. Just look at titles like WOW that are mere shadows of their former profitable glory.
I pointed out the inherently cyclical and fad-based nature of the Online PC Gaming industry since the 2000s in another thread: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-goes-bankrupt-rip.121181/page-6#post-5575917

WOW is a good example, while it hasn't exactly been entirely forgotten due to constant attempts at rejuvenation with expansions, remakes and shit, it's long lost its cultural ubiquity.
It fell from ~12 million Subscribers in its heyday of popularity to under 2 million in 2018, likely headed to Sub 1 million soon:
https://www.ign.com/articles/2010/10/07/world-of-warcraft-reaches-12-million-subscribers
https://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/news...ubscription-numbers-battle-of-azeroth-1932930

Fortnite isn't even an MMO, but more akin to shooters and Survival games that seem to generally have a shorter shelf life. Anyone still remember when "DayZ" was "the thing"? Team Fortress 2 or Overwatch? Apex Legends, which was extremely short-lived? Remember when PUBG had over 3,2 million peak player count and was the shit everyone had to talk about in 2017 and now it's barely talked about/Streamed and often drops below 200k?

Afaik the only two Online Multiplayer genres with moderate longevity to them seem to be F2P MOBAs (League of Legends/DOTA 2), although they've also somewhat lost their luster and heavily competitive Shooters like Counter Strike, although they went through various iterations e.g. Counter Strike/Source/Global Offensive to refresh their playerbase. People who think that "Fortnite" will still be on people's minds 5 years from now are delusional.
 
Last edited:

J_C

One Bit Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
16,947
Location
Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Do some people really think Fortnite will be around forever?

Every big multiplayer title is thought to be "too big to fail" in its golden age. They always wane. Just look at titles like WOW that are mere shadows of their former profitable glory.
I pointed out the inherently cyclical and fad-based nature of the Online PC Gaming industry since the 2000s in another thread: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-goes-bankrupt-rip.121181/page-6#post-5575917

WOW is a good example, while it hasn't exactly been entirely forgotten due to constant attempts at rejuvenation with expansions, remakes and shit, it's long lost its cultural ubiquity.
It fell from ~12 million Subscribers in its heyday of popularity to under 2 million in 2018, likely headed to Sub 1 million soon:
https://www.ign.com/articles/2010/10/07/world-of-warcraft-reaches-12-million-subscribers
https://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/news...ubscription-numbers-battle-of-azeroth-1932930

Fortnite isn't even an MMO, but more akin to shooters and Survival games that seem to generally have a shorter shelf life. Anyone still remember when "DayZ" was "the thing"? Team Fortress 2 or Overwatch? Apex Legends, which was extremely short-lived? Remember when PUBG had over 3,2 million peak player count and was the shit everyone had to talk about in 2017 and now it's barely talked about/Streamed and often drops below 200k?

Afaik the only two Online Multiplayer genres with moderate longevity to them seem to be F2P MOBAs (League of Legends/DOTA 2), although they've also somewhat lost their luster and heavily competitive Shooters like Counter Strike, although they went through various iterations e.g. Counter Strike/Source/Global Offensive to refresh their playerbase. People who think that "Fortnite" will still be on people's minds 5 years from now are delusional.
I'm not saying that Fortnite will be around forever, but there is nothing that indicates that it will crash in five or six years. As you said, there are games (usually free games) which are still around and kicking hard, like LoL and Dota2. There is no reason why Fortnite can be just as relevant in 5 years as now. CS managed to do the same, and you have to pay for that game.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
Fortnite is a fad game held aloft and propagated by PR and its own popularity, these usually have a shelf life from somewhere between 3-7 years, often cut short by the newest fad popping up and stealing all the lamplight/glory.

With 3 years under its belt, it's most likely already past its high point of popularity and down the slope of diminishing returns: https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/07/22/decline-fortnite-hurting-microsoft-gaming-business.aspx

Being on the downslope doesn't mean it won't be incredibly profitable and relatively popular, as games like DotA2 and whatnot show. Also either way, it is such a massively popular thing it won't be dead and forgotten for a long fucking time. That's the idea I was responding to... "soon enough no one will care about Fortnite." Bullshit, in 20 years you'll have Fortnite nostalgia products like we do today for Jurassic Park. It was a cultural phenomenon for Gen Y or whatever we're calling them.

More relevant to the discussion is the fact Epic will have a war chest for quite a while to use in their quest to shove their dick in Steam's wife.
 

ultimanecat

Arcane
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
631
Rocket League developer Psyonix gets bought by Epic last year in May:
We expect to bring Rocket League to the Epic Games store and to leverage our new relationship to grow the game in ways we couldn’t do on our own before. We believe that bringing Rocket League to new audiences with more support is a win for everybody.

Rocket League developer Psyonix cancels support for the Linux and Mac versions of the game, which have been around since 2016:
As we continue to upgrade Rocket League with new technologies, it is no longer viable for us to maintain support for the macOS and Linux platforms.

"Grow the game in ways we couldn't do on our own"
"More support is a win for everybody"
:hmmm:
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
2,323
Location
Illinois
tim_sweeney_epic_3-2d51.jpg


You might think this is because Steam supports Linux and Mac. Rest assured, human, that this is not the case. There is nothing to be concerned about.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,786
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
... @@ did Goose Game really sell only 151k copies??? Based on how widespreaded the memes were, I legit expected it to do Cuphead's numbers. Same with Outer Wilds, the kind of sleeper hit indie that Youtubers won't shut up about so it blows up with the audience.

There are tens, perhaps even hundreds of millions of people who only watch other people play video games. They rarely, if ever, play games themselves.
 

Silentstorm

Learned
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
885
If I were an impoverished teenager, you can bet I'd pirated everything I could lay my eyes on. It's a no-brainer if you don't have the cash.
ftfy.
That's almost every PC gamer as a kid, sure, some did spare some money or had parents that could buy the games, a lot of kids though, remember buying pirated disks or CD's and trying to get over the copy protection, and then torrents later on.

I swear, just last year alone, i legit bought more games than i ever did as a kid, pretty sure i still have some blank looking CD's with only some game names written on them if i look hard enough...honestly, i swear developers must have hated kids and teen gamers and their pirating ways.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,853
... @@ did Goose Game really sell only 151k copies??? Based on how widespreaded the memes were, I legit expected it to do Cuphead's numbers. Same with Outer Wilds, the kind of sleeper hit indie that Youtubers won't shut up about so it blows up with the audience.

There are tens, perhaps even hundreds of millions of people who only watch other people play video games. They rarely, if ever, play games themselves.
Aside from that, plenty of people who do play games and also watch streamers/youtubers saw the game, and there's no real reason to buy it once you've seen the entire game. To be honest, it'd be a pretty mediocre game to play alone as well, it's a spectator game, it's funny to watch and fun to do shit while people are watching.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
That's almost every PC gamer as a kid, sure, some did spare some money or had parents that could buy the games, a lot of kids though, remember buying pirated disks or CD's and trying to get over the copy protection, and then torrents later on.

I swear, just last year alone, i legit bought more games than i ever did as a kid, pretty sure i still have some blank looking CD's with only some game names written on them if i look hard enough...honestly, i swear developers must have hated kids and teen gamers and their pirating ways.

I honestly never pirated anything that I can recall, and my family was pretty average middle-class. Maybe it's because my mom was a gamer and got me into PC gaming, and since she always bought her games I bought mine. I'm sure it depends on the family and their situation. Kids pirating doesn't bother me though, nor does some Ukrainian villager who makes $200 a month. The ones that bother me are the asshats who easily could buy their games but don't, out of some bullshit justification.
 

Silentstorm

Learned
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
885
My parents were the kind to not buy many games, basically one per birthday so piracy was amazing, but when i started getting money and stuff like Steam became common, it just felt bad to pirate games.

More ease, options and ways to get games make it harder to justify piracy a little bit, aside from maybe expensive AAA games, but you quickly get reviews and tons of videos about those talking about how good they really are.

Of course, little kids and people who don't make a lot of money or live in countries where games tend to be much more expensive i don't care if they pirate or not.
 
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,876,733
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
This "I don't like Fortnite so it's a failure and irrelevant" mindset some have is truly baffling.

Feels before reals. :dance:

Aside from that, plenty of people who do play games and also watch streamers/youtubers saw the game, and there's no real reason to buy it once you've seen the entire game. To be honest, it'd be a pretty mediocre game to play alone as well, it's a spectator game, it's funny to watch and fun to do shit while people are watching.
Are UGG playthroughs always the same thing? Watching someone you like playing a game seems to be good advertisement for you to want to play it yourself, instead of the opposite.
 
Last edited:

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
https://gamerant.com/epic-games-store-pc-sales-report/

Epic Games Store Is Hurting PC Game Sales, Says Report

The NPD Group is an American market research company that currently operates in 20 countries. Mat Piscatella, as the executive director of the company’s games division, focuses on video game market analytics and he recently had something surprising to say about PC digital game sales in 2019.

According to Piscatella, the PC digital distribution war set off by the Epic Games Store in 2019 resulted in lower overall consumer spending on digital PC games. Although game revenue overall increased by 2% in 2019, spending on PC digital content actually decreased. The reason for this unexpected decline in sales, said Piscatella, was that enhancing the consumer experience and reducing market confusion stopped being a priority for the two major PC game distribution platforms, Steam and the Epic Games Store.

When the Epic Games Store was announced at the end of 2018, its declared goal was to increase competition and therefore innovation in the PC digital distribution space. Epic’s CEO Tim Sweeney stated that the new platform’s strategy was to shake things up and effectively force Steam to change its stagnant practices and start giving developers a larger cut of profits.

To enforce this strategy, the Epic Games Store began to sign exclusivity deals with a number of game developers. Sweeney maintained that the only way to break the stranglehold that Steam had on the market was to build a large library of exclusive titles, thereby forcing players to purchase games from Epic’s store instead.

The great PC distribution platform wars of 2019 did not do consumer spending on PC content any favors btw. Priorities of enhancing consumer experience & choice and minimizing confusion were all deemphasized in 2019, contributing to lower overall consumer spend on PC content.
— Mat Piscatella (@MatPiscatella) January 23, 2020

Despite protests by angry gamers and even boycotts of the new storefront, this tactic seemed to be generally successful. Sweeney announced that the Epic Games Store had made $680 million in revenue by the end of 2019, only one year after its launch, and that 108 million unique accounts had either purchased games or downloaded one of the free games offered by Epic.

In spite of the apparent success of the Epic Games Store, however, it seems that the shakeup ultimately hurt the PC digital game market. And it’s surely not all due entirely to Epic’s move onto the scene. Steam has for years been the dominant marketplace, and it was both convenient and reassuring for players to have the entirety of their gaming library in one place. But in recent years, many game publishers have released their own proprietary game launchers, such as Ubisoft’s Uplay, EA’s Origin, and Rockstar’s Launcher that went live in September 2019. Add to that other storefronts like GreenManGaming and GOG, and keeping track of owned games and how to play them can become overwhelming.

Epic’s plan to break Steam’s semi-monopoly on PC gaming and create healthy competition may have backfired. It seems that gamers have instead chosen to play their games on consoles or simply buy fewer games. Another explanation could be that an increasing number of games are persistently online, constantly updated, and never really end. Perhaps people aren’t spending as much money on games because they’re too busy playing Destiny 2, Fallout 76, Overwatch, and Fortnite.

Competition is good, they said. More money to the devs means healthier industry, they said.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
9,268
Location
Italy
for all the people looking down on piracy: "buy oblivion, it's the best rpg ever" (quote every single journo).
for the law, THE LAW, you're even allowed TO KILL, if it's for your own defense. i'll defend my money with the same vigor.
 

BlackAdderBG

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
3,237
Location
Little Vienna
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
"Perhaps people aren’t spending as much money on games because they’re too busy playing Destiny 2, Fallout 76, Overwatch, and Fortnite."

Can't believe these people are paid to write this drivel. All 4 games are actually in huge decline in 2019 so this is ridiculous report.
 

Archibald

Arcane
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
7,869
I'm not sure if overall point is wrong even if those games are in decline. I think that main point here is that there are more and more "play forever" online games released every year so you figure that at some point less and less people will be interested in buying many new games when they can still play their online games.
 

Alphons

Cipher
Joined
Nov 20, 2019
Messages
2,616
"Perhaps people aren’t spending as much money on games because they’re too busy playing Destiny 2, Fallout 76, Overwatch, and Fortnite."

Can't believe these people are paid to write this drivel. All 4 games are actually in huge decline in 2019 so this is ridiculous report.

At least they didn't mention Anthem...
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,556
Location
Bulgaria
I'm not sure if overall point is wrong even if those games are in decline. I think that main point here is that there are more and more "play forever" online games released every year so you figure that at some point less and less people will be interested in buying many new games when they can still play their online games.
Different crowd.
 

BlackAdderBG

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
3,237
Location
Little Vienna
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
That 2% is fake number anyway. Did they disclose what the fuck is considered a "PC digital content" and what data they are comparing. Not knowing how much the biggest player in the market is selling is kind of big deal to make commentary on the PC market as a whole. It's like talking about electric cars market without knowing how Tesla is selling.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
I'm not sure if overall point is wrong even if those games are in decline. I think that main point here is that there are more and more "play forever" online games released every year so you figure that at some point less and less people will be interested in buying many new games when they can still play their online games.
Different crowd.

Not if the drop includes shit like the Call of Duty: Modern Warfare reboot. That's a game that would have normally sold an insane amount of copies, but would be highly impacted by the "play forever" success of games like Rainbow Six Siege and Fortnite.
 

Paul_cz

Arcane
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
2,117
Possibly. I think MMORPGs probably have slightly more lasting power due to persistence.

My suspicion is Fortnite will be crushed by the next big fad/obsession, especially considering how young a lot of their fanbase are.

Time will tell.
Unfortunately Fortnite is now too big to fail. It is the same as with WoW and Minecraft and GTA5...these games just keep selling, year after year, as more and more people get roped in, due to the big ass mainstream momentum. Sure WoW maybe smaller now and in decline, but after 16 fucking years it better be.
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
2,464
I think that main point here is that there are more and more "play forever" online games released every year so you figure that at some point less and less people will be interested in buying many new games when they can still play their online games.

Or isn't it connected with that 'free game every week' strategy? I know these titles are small or just older ones but still, there's little reason for many to buy another non-AAA title because it may appear as gift on Epic anytime.

If you joined Epic Store from the very beginning, you have like 40-50 free games now.
 

passerby

Arcane
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
2,788
It's not connected with Epic at all. It's too small to have an impact, sales and bundles with dirt cheap, almost free games were available all the time, the likes of Modern Warfare also had lower than expected sales.
Very little innovative high quality releases this year and after several years of microtransactions some subset of sheeples managed to look back at the money spent and got bored of wasting money on them.
There was also no new fad of MMO, MOBA, Hero Shooter, Looter Shooter, Battle-Royale, etc. calliber for few years.

The only relevant metric to analyse, would be to compare console to PC ratio of mainstream exclusives like Metro Exodus, Borderlands 3, etc. to previous games B2, M:LL console to PC ratio, and multiply by how on average PC market share of simillar games grew last few years.
Using console sales as reference like that, would give a very rough estimate of how much Epic exclusivity hurt sales, practically only Metro and Borderlands would be relevant, because games available on xbox pass PC from the release day are heavily skewed by that.
 
Last edited:

Wyatt_Derp

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2019
Messages
3,082
Location
Okie Land
I wonder how long it will be before every single major franchise has its own DRM store... maybe even its very own console. Call of Duty Box, Elder Scrolls Pad, Assassin Creed Station, etc.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom