Fallout Fallout 4 Thread

[Perkel]

I listened to podcast by sim settlements creator and he had lead for F4NV so i have some details:

- It is not just FNV with better graphics. Prime motivation for F4NV is to bring good changes from F4 into NV like much much much better gunplay or weapon mod system, power armor, improved ferals but at the same time take from FNV what was great about it like DT system, different ammos etc. Hardcore system from FNV will be replaced with Survivor and naturally world space will have to acknowledge that (like adding beds for save). The core is to have FNV gameplay with benefits of F4 improvements to gun plays and stuff rather than having F4 gameplay in FNV. Settlement system is not core of game and will be released as an option as they say it doesn't fit well with FNV theme.

- Gameplay system wise most of the hard stuff is already done. Like XDI which brings back more than 4 menu options for dialog, skillupmenu which brings back skills and nv like menu. Most of those changes are straight up engine changes so they are not buggy nor they cause problems long therm and don't feel like they are bandaid. Currently the biggest problem for them they are working on is creature behavior system. F4 has no behavior system to mod so you can't effectively make creatures other than just coming straight at you. They are currently reverse engineering that and progress looks good (mainly this is about securitrons which have wide tasks in game) this is the biggest hurdle for them.

- Around 150 people working on project right now including voice actors including actual people who work in game industry right now as level designers, programmers etc. This is more pro than pretty much any mod out there.

- Show don't tell approach. They don't want feature creep so they will be only releasing progress when they finish some feature or milestone. No "this is feature we are working on but it might change in future". This is why they show finalized parts of game like skill system, opening sequence etc and not work in progress.

- Finish module = release. Everything they will do they will be release for people to play with. They already did that with their frameworks like extended dialog system or skillupmenu, DT as well as assets as you can download already some of the guns and armors from nexus. While it will take a while for whole mod to release they don't want to work on something and then something happens and everyone multi-year work is down in toilet. They have contingency plans for their work so if they will not be able to continue they will be releasing what they have and this is also reason why they go for achievable goals that can be released first rather than take 100 different things and each of them in various forms of completion. So before release of NV you will see most of their work like guns, armors, props etc being brought into F4. The stuff they make models for etc for now are stuff that can be brought into Fallout 4 so modders can see their work being done and don't get burned out of project like other big mods out there.

- Around 80% of NV wasteland is "touched" rest 20% is height-map. Rather like most of big project going hard on landscape to hype people up and then realizing they have issues with gameplay/ai/monsters/etc that kills their project and can't continue they want to sort out every problem first and then go into full production as landscape has least issues to deal with. As for landscape itself it will not be 1=1 version. First of all F4 engine had some serious rework on what is allowed in it when it comes to size of cells and so on and they want to take advantage of that. For example Freeside in NV is a mess. It is way to sparse and could use up some tightening and freeside shouldn't be split. So in this case they will change it to be smaller. On other hand true desert areas in NV are really small and they plan to expand them so they actually feel like deserts rather than sandbox for kids.

- It will not be compatible with fallout 4 world space. NV will not be a new place you can visit but you start NV when you click new game with new main menu UI for F4NV. They say that there are simply to many changes to internals of F4 systems to even try to get both working at the same time and F4 worldspace quests etc will be just broken. Though they say that some autist maybe will be able to do that but this is not their focus and they don't plan TTW like integration.

- They will be not using NV voices because of Beth didn't gave them ok as US union for those actors created some insane stuff that severely limits reuse of voice even in fan modifications. For now voice work is their SECONDARY goal. The most important part is to remake game. So if they will finish doing that but they still don't have all voices recorded they will release it without those voices and slowly update over time with new voices. Obviously there is nothing stopping someone writing some scripts to extract voice from FNV and change new voice acting for old but they won't do it. The crux of licensing problems is in extraction of files from their archives. TTW gets around that by not actually extracting any voice files while you need to do that for F4 as NV format is different than in F4. What is more weird is that they have original FNV voice actors who want to reprise their role for F4NV for free and they can't use them either as Betsheda can't fuck with union. All in all they have to record around 15 000 lines and they know this will for sure take longer than creating game itself. They have effectively two teams working. One on game and other one on voice acting and both of them are almost completely separate from each other.

- It will require for player to have copy of FNV installed but it won't take anything from that copy. It is license requirement they made with Bethesda.

- They focus on vanilla game so no story DLCs. DLC will be done after vanilla if they will have strength at that point to continue. Though they will be bringing some of DLC stuff into base game like some weapons, perks etc. Gunrunners and various stashes (pre order packs) will be in base game and they will suggest themselves on that with JESawyer mod (integration)

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

By far, my biggest problem with F4NV is the voice acting. IMO NV's voice acting is pretty great and it's what gives the game much of its character. I really wish there was an option to stick with vanilla voice acting. I know they have legal issues, but i have feeling that they brought it upon themselves. If they didn't email Bethesda about it, i doubt they would come after them. They probably only did so after the fact because they have to aggressively defend their IP.

 

[Perkel]

By far, my biggest problem with F4NV is the voice acting. IMO NV's voice acting is pretty great and it's what gives the game much of its character. I really wish there was an option to stick with vanilla voice acting. I know they have legal issues, but i have feeling that they brought it upon themselves. If they didn't email Bethesda about it, i doubt they would come after them. They probably only did so after the fact because they have to aggressively defend their IP.

There will be for sure someone who will write script and port voices from FNV into F4NV. F4CW devs already have that tool. The whole problem even started because one of F4CW devs asked bethsheda without notice to rest of the team about legality of project. Previously it worked kind of like license to forgive while now it has to be strict license thanks to that jackass.

Either way not a huge problem. I am sure in less that few days there will be automated converted released that will handle that.

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

By far, my biggest problem with F4NV is the voice acting. IMO NV's voice acting is pretty great and it's what gives the game much of its character. I really wish there was an option to stick with vanilla voice acting. I know they have legal issues, but i have feeling that they brought it upon themselves. If they didn't email Bethesda about it, i doubt they would come after them. They probably only did so after the fact because they have to aggressively defend their IP.

There will be for sure someone who will write script and port voices from FNV into F4NV. F4CW devs already have that tool. The whole problem even started because one of F4CW devs asked bethsheda without notice to rest of the team about legality of project. Previously it worked kind of like license to forgive while now it has to be strict license thanks to that jackass.

Either way not a huge problem. I am sure in less that few days there will be automated converted released that will handle that.

Yup. here's hoping too.

 

[Jacob]

Wow, 150 people. Isn't that larger than the Obsidian team that worked on FNV?

 

[RNGsus]

F4 has no behavior system to mod so you can't effectively make creatures other than just coming straight at you.

That's true of all bethesda games though.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

There's a new mod out on nexus that supposedly adds more options to how you tackle the main story, adding RPG.

Oh? What's it called?

Depravity a harmless bit of fun.

it lets you fight gunners to advance the main plot instead of finding Nick.

Nick Valentine is one of the few good things in FO4

 

[rusty_shackleford]

By far, my biggest problem with F4NV is the voice acting. IMO NV's voice acting is pretty great and it's what gives the game much of its character. I really wish there was an option to stick with vanilla voice acting. I know they have legal issues, but i have feeling that they brought it upon themselves. If they didn't email Bethesda about it, i doubt they would come after them. They probably only did so after the fact because they have to aggressively defend their IP.

The legal issues are a non-problem that could have easily been worked around. Yes, it's obviously not legal to provide the voiceovers from FNV but you just do what every similar project does: provide a way to easily import said assets.
It's how e.g., openMW works.

 

[jf8350143]

There's a new mod out on nexus that supposedly adds more options to how you tackle the main story, adding RPG.

Oh? What's it called?

Depravity a harmless bit of fun.

it lets you fight gunners to advance the main plot instead of finding Nick.

Nick Valentine is one of the few good things in FO4

You can still go find him, the only differences is you don't have to rely on him to push the main plot forward. And you don't need to follow dog meat around for half an hour to find a place you already know.

 

[Perkel]

Listened also same guy podcast with F4:Capital Wasteland main lead. Dude does now podcast with most of leads for big projects (he did for miami, london etc).

State of F4:Capital Wasteland:

- Half of world is done, mostly southern because main quest doesn't even go to norther part of map.
- Main quest is done, most of sidequest aren't in and are in various states of completion.
- Project is much less pro than F4NV as it mainly consist of autists. The whole project started because lead wanted to remake megaton in F4 engine and he done that and some people noticed it and wanted to do some more stuff and whole project grown like that. Lead himself worked on Brasil for FNV (shipped) as well as Bruma for skyrim (also shipped)
- They will be using tools made for F4NV like XDI though they don't have currently clear vision if this will have F3 gameplay or they just want F4 gameplay. They lean toward F3 gameplay + updated gunplay
- Development is structurally at risk of going down as there are effectively 3-4 leads and each of them is vital to project so that any of them goes down due to life etc whole project might end up dead. They have a lot of landscape artists but they hurt on asset making people (which is opposite to F4NV), so it is effectively done by 4-5 autists + people coming in and out while F4NV is more like group effort.
- It is much more random development as they mostly go and do stuff and then fix stuff if something pops up rather than doing everything before like F4NV which explains why they were able to make half of the world and main quest so quickly compared to F4NV but at the same time at any point they can get some blockade that can sink their project.

Yup. here's hoping too.

Not just "hoping" F4: Capital Wasteland devs had that tool from start. So this tool is really easy to do. No way people will just ignore it.

Wow, 150 people. Isn't that larger than the Obsidian team that worked on FNV?

150 which good part of it are voice actors (remember unlike gamedev who can contribute to shitload of things voice actors usually do 1 to few actors and no more than that as this might bring down quality of game)

That's true of all bethesda games though.

The stuff they are talking about is actually different behaviors for different enemies. Like ghouls when they sandbox hang around and sit down while deathclaws walk around barely stopping for a second, not that they attack on sight which is different AI package which can be modified as some of the mods for NV and F4 do that.

 

[ironmask]

I might play F4NV, but I don't give two shits about F4: Capital Wasteland. Fallout 3 was a garbage game and making it on another shitty engine won't change how shit F3 was. If both of these mods were abandoned, then I honestly don't think much would be lost. That effort would be much better put to use, if they were porting NV and F3 into an opensource engine like OpenMW.

 

[typical user]

I listened to podcast by sim settlements creator and he had lead for F4NV so i have some details:

- It is not just FNV with better graphics. Prime motivation for F4NV is to bring good changes from F4 into NV like much much much better gunplay or weapon mod system, power armor, improved ferals but at the same time take from FNV what was great about it like DT system, different ammos etc. Hardcore system from FNV will be replaced with Survivor and naturally world space will have to acknowledge that (like adding beds for save). The core is to have FNV gameplay with benefits of F4 improvements to gun plays and stuff rather than having F4 gameplay in FNV. Settlement system is not core of game and will be released as an option as they say it doesn't fit well with FNV theme.

- Gameplay system wise most of the hard stuff is already done. Like XDI which brings back more than 4 menu options for dialog, skillupmenu which brings back skills and nv like menu. Most of those changes are straight up engine changes so they are not buggy nor they cause problems long therm and don't feel like they are bandaid. Currently the biggest problem for them they are working on is creature behavior system. F4 has no behavior system to mod so you can't effectively make creatures other than just coming straight at you. They are currently reverse engineering that and progress looks good (mainly this is about securitrons which have wide tasks in game) this is the biggest hurdle for them.

- Around 150 people working on project right now including voice actors including actual people who work in game industry right now as level designers, programmers etc. This is more pro than pretty much any mod out there.

- Show don't tell approach. They don't want feature creep so they will be only releasing progress when they finish some feature or milestone. No "this is feature we are working on but it might change in future". This is why they show finalized parts of game like skill system, opening sequence etc and not work in progress.

- Finish module = release. Everything they will do they will be release for people to play with. They already did that with their frameworks like extended dialog system or skillupmenu, DT as well as assets as you can download already some of the guns and armors from nexus. While it will take a while for whole mod to release they don't want to work on something and then something happens and everyone multi-year work is down in toilet. They have contingency plans for their work so if they will not be able to continue they will be releasing what they have and this is also reason why they go for achievable goals that can be released first rather than take 100 different things and each of them in various forms of completion. So before release of NV you will see most of their work like guns, armors, props etc being brought into F4. The stuff they make models for etc for now are stuff that can be brought into Fallout 4 so modders can see their work being done and don't get burned out of project like other big mods out there.

- Around 80% of NV wasteland is "touched" rest 20% is height-map. Rather like most of big project going hard on landscape to hype people up and then realizing they have issues with gameplay/ai/monsters/etc that kills their project and can't continue they want to sort out every problem first and then go into full production as landscape has least issues to deal with. As for landscape itself it will not be 1=1 version. First of all F4 engine had some serious rework on what is allowed in it when it comes to size of cells and so on and they want to take advantage of that. For example Freeside in NV is a mess. It is way to sparse and could use up some tightening and freeside shouldn't be split. So in this case they will change it to be smaller. On other hand true desert areas in NV are really small and they plan to expand them so they actually feel like deserts rather than sandbox for kids.

- It will not be compatible with fallout 4 world space. NV will not be a new place you can visit but you start NV when you click new game with new main menu UI for F4NV. They say that there are simply to many changes to internals of F4 systems to even try to get both working at the same time and F4 worldspace quests etc will be just broken. Though they say that some autist maybe will be able to do that but this is not their focus and they don't plan TTW like integration.

- They will be not using NV voices because of Beth didn't gave them ok as US union for those actors created some insane stuff that severely limits reuse of voice even in fan modifications. For now voice work is their SECONDARY goal. The most important part is to remake game. So if they will finish doing that but they still don't have all voices recorded they will release it without those voices and slowly update over time with new voices. Obviously there is nothing stopping someone writing some scripts to extract voice from FNV and change new voice acting for old but they won't do it. The crux of licensing problems is in extraction of files from their archives. TTW gets around that by not actually extracting any voice files while you need to do that for F4 as NV format is different than in F4. What is more weird is that they have original FNV voice actors who want to reprise their role for F4NV for free and they can't use them either as Betsheda can't fuck with union. All in all they have to record around 15 000 lines and they know this will for sure take longer than creating game itself. They have effectively two teams working. One on game and other one on voice acting and both of them are almost completely separate from each other.

- It will require for player to have copy of FNV installed but it won't take anything from that copy. It is license requirement they made with Bethesda.

- They focus on vanilla game so no story DLCs. DLC will be done after vanilla if they will have strength at that point to continue. Though they will be bringing some of DLC stuff into base game like some weapons, perks etc. Gunrunners and various stashes (pre order packs) will be in base game and they will suggest themselves on that with JESawyer mod (integration)

That's fucking awesome. I just wish they would give some actual numbers like percentage of quests done, npcs, done, landscape done. What they will take from JSawyer or some popular FNV mods.

Scraping voices from FNV is both hard and easy. Anyone can extract files from both file systems. The only thing which might be an obstacle is the translation of these voice-files for the F4:NV mod. If the mod authors keep NPCs, quests and other events labaled with same names then it would just require a simple script iterating over one list of FNV voices and add them for F4:NV and add some init methods. Otherwise some autist would have to go and manually assign those voice-files and only then saving them to a file Fo4 could parse.

 

[DeepOcean]

Why port New Vegas to Fallout 4? There are mods for Fallout New Vegas that make the shooting more passable and it isn't that Fallout 4 improved the Ai that remain as shit as ever. All this huge work for some better textures and models?

 

[typical user]

Why port New Vegas to Fallout 4? There are mods for Fallout New Vegas that make the shooting more passable and it isn't that Fallout 4 improved the Ai that remain as shit as ever. All this huge work for some better textures and models?

Read the post I quoted above. You get better Hardcore Mode, fully intergrated JSawyer into the game (or rather it's revision). You also are going to get improved locations like Freeside and Strip not divided by walls or gates so the old Gamebryo wouldn't choke to death. It also gets refactored game engine with modern graphical features like built-in godrays, depth-of-field, hdr and more from Fallout 4 with additional fixes by the mod team. So you get New Vegas with JSawyer, basic graphical features which you would have to get from ENB Series otherwise, Freeside Open, Strip Open, all those mods which alter animations, you get better power armor system more true with original material, everything probably patched with the unofficial fixes and ready out-of-the-box. Better yet, you can download mods from Fallout 4 Nexus like guns, armors and patch them into your new game. Most of the stuff for New Vegas right now has no support, many unpatched bugs, low performance or just subpar quality, while most of the stuff for Fallout 4 is still pretty recent.

Sure Gamebryo is a mess, the mods have different level of quality yadda yadda but you do get a proper New Vegas remaster for free (well almost, since you need both FNV and Fo4). Not just retexture copy-paste with same bugs, scripts and 2010 quality under the hood.

 

[Perkel]

Not only that. Because this will be PC only mod they can open up spaces that previously game required internal space because consoles would shit the bed. So all those various shacks and houses could easily be opened up.

they probably will cut down a bit freeside and join those two cells and then join it with actual vegas city which makes much more sense.

Same with NPCs. Vegas when you walk into it was fucking ghost town. Whilte F4 engine isn't something like ubisoft engine which can draw thousand of people in screen it is enough to multiply amount of npcs to give vegas actual city feel.

 

[Makabb]

 

[Curious_Tongue]

Weapon type doesn't suit the enemy's armour type.

 

[Agame]

Weapon type doesn't suit the enemy's armour type.

 

[Yosharian]

Weapon type doesn't suit the enemy's armour type.

That doesn't make any sense. There is nothing remotely special about a Behemoth's skin that would allow it to ignore the explosive pressure of a nuclear weapon. It can ignore the radiation, sure. The explosion itself? NO.

The video just highlights yet another way in which FO4 completely fails as a simulation.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

The video just highlights yet another way in which FO4 completely fails as a simulation.

In Fallout 2 I blasted a Supermutant square in the eyes with a combat shotgun and all I did was piss it off.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

I think you could also hit children in the groin with a sledgehammer and they'd just get upset and run away.

 

[Yosharian]

The video just highlights yet another way in which FO4 completely fails as a simulation.

In Fallout 2, I blasted a Supermutant square in the eyes with a combat shotgun and all I did was piss it off.

Are we really comparing the explosive pressure of an atom bomb with the force of a shotgun shell blast?

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Mininukes should probably have a special instakill flag, but lots of games have instances like in that video.

 

[Wunderbar]

Nukes shouldn't be in the game at all.

Fallout used to be anti-war

 

[typical user]

I think you could also hit children in the groin with a sledgehammer and they'd just get upset and run away.

The kid in Klamath would step back and throw a molotov at your face. Good times.