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Good Doom/Heretic/Hexen WADs

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
Patron
Joined
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Messages
24,404
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
Yo dawg, I heard you like playing Doom, so now you can play Doom while you're playing Doom.



The first ~9 minutes or so are technobabble, but after that you can watch the in-game results.
 

Tacgnol

Shitlord
Patron
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
1,870,554
Location
Pronouns: Shitlord/problematic
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth

The Dutch Ghost

Arbiter
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
590
I have been playing Blade of Agony since 2 days ago. An older version of the complete release before the developers decided to revise it because of some online backlash.
I am still in the first two chapters of the game so I have not seen anything that would be considered controversial yet though I know of the concentration camp that appears in Episode 3.
Main reason why I have not played this game earlier is because it just suffered a lot of slowdown on my old computer, even if I turned effects low or off.

When the game was in development years ago, this was even before the release of episode 2 and the first episode was not even finished yet, I remember looking really forward to this game as it seemed to be more the Wolfenstein experience I wanted than what Wolfenstein TNO and NC, being much closer to the atmosphere of RTCW and Wolf 2009.
The Old Blood, despite trying to be like RTCW felt more like it wanted to do away with the Indiana Jones/Hellboy vibe I had with these previous games.

The first chapter works relatively fine, this being more refined than the first versions I played years ago, but the stealth mechanics in the first level of episode 2 is simply a mess. I had to restart the level because I missed out on an optional objective and at some point I had done something that kept triggering NPCs to go into detection/awareness mode.
I left the area where I must have caused it but guards in other parts of the prison would also now go into detection/awareness mode despite there being nothing to trigger them as this mechanic seems to be level wide, or I ran into a bug
My theory is that one of the NPCs that walks around kept running into a NPC that I killed, activating the alertness script.

The stealth system sometimes feels very luck based rather than using clear rules that define when you are seen and enemies are triggered into awareness as I have had situations in which a guard walked me by while I was in full view and it did not do anything, while in another situation in which I was relying on stealth and tried to stay outside the lights and cone of view of enemies and I am still detected.
Even when I reload the detected script goes off despite the reload point not being anywhere near NPCs.

The patrol script or planned path is also sometimes flawed because I have had a few times that NPCs who are suppose to walk around a cell block, the playing having to wait until they pass by so that the player can follow them, instead turn around when they run into something and remaining stuck on patrolling.

It is very impressive that people have been able to get so much out of the Doom engine, expanding the basic Doom 2 engine into something that can be expanded with new effects and modern gameplay mechanics, but BOA makes it clear that the engine just does not play well with these.
Maybe it can be made to work better with more expanded scripts but I think modders would be better off by using a much more modern engine for that.
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
6,754
I stole the POW sprites from that for a version Googlydoom. They are awesome.
 

Sjukob

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
1,715
If you like brutal doom and want some spice on top of it then check out doom schism


It is supposed to have 3 playable characters: doomguy, sorcerer and paladin, but sorcerer is the most unique of the bunch and is probably the most feature complete too. Cryomancer
 

Jack Of Owls

Prophet
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
3,527
Location
Massachusettes
It is very impressive that people have been able to get so much out of the Doom engine, expanding the basic Doom 2 engine into something that can be expanded with new effects and modern gameplay mechanics, but BOA makes it clear that the engine just does not play well with these.
Maybe it can be made to work better with more expanded scripts but I think modders would be better off by using a much more modern engine for that.
Yeah, I love the idea of a working and satisfying stealth mechanic in a doom engine wad, but it's not the Dark Engine. Some of these modders just stretch and stretch that ancient engine until its just a long string of sticky taffy that just breaks away and gets in your beard and sticks in your craw.
 

HansDampf

Arcane
Joined
Dec 15, 2015
Messages
1,327

Nirvana talking with skillsaw about Vanguard, Valiant, Ancient Aliens, Heartland, etc. for 2 hours.

Also, unrelated: Any recommendations for WADs that are similar to Sunlust and/or Fractured Worlds in terms of combat and difficulty? I've already played the Stardates. Need more.
 

Sjukob

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
1,715
Also, unrelated: Any recommendations for WADs that are similar to Sunlust and/or Fractured Worlds in terms of combat and difficulty? I've already played the Stardates. Need more.
Toilet of the gods. Also, speed of doom, resurgence and Deus Vult series, but I guess you've probably played those already. Bloodstain has gradual difficulty progression, but is hard in general, the later maps are "fuck you, lol" material.
 
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toughasnails

Learned
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
542
It is very impressive that people have been able to get so much out of the Doom engine, expanding the basic Doom 2 engine into something that can be expanded with new effects and modern gameplay mechanics, but BOA makes it clear that the engine just does not play well with these.
Maybe it can be made to work better with more expanded scripts but I think modders would be better off by using a much more modern engine for that.
Yeah, I love the idea of a working and satisfying stealth mechanic in a doom engine wad, but it's not the Dark Engine. Some of these modders just stretch and stretch that ancient engine until its just a long string of sticky taffy that just breaks away and gets in your beard and sticks in your craw.
There was a gameplay mod called Sneaky Doom years ago that tried to mix Thief and Splinter Cell style stealth (so shadows, sound, movement speed) with Doom. Also Fortune's Run back when it was a GZDoom TC (it is now a commercial game running on a different engine) experimented with light and shadows based stealth, there was a playable demo that showcased their stealth mechanics. Both these projects are from almost a decade ago.
 

HansDampf

Arcane
Joined
Dec 15, 2015
Messages
1,327
Also, unrelated: Any recommendations for WADs that are similar to Sunlust and/or Fractured Worlds in terms of combat and difficulty? I've already played the Stardates. Need more.
Toilet of the gods. Also, speed of doom, resurgence and Deus Vult series, but I guess you've probably played those already. Bloodstain has gradual difficulty progression, but is hard in general, the later maps are "fuck you, lol" material.
:updatedmytxt:
Toilet of the Gods I always assumed to be some kind of pure slaughter WAD with troll difficulty and ignored it. Like Dimensions, which is a bit too much for me. What I like about Sunlust is that it's a good mix of (big) arena encounters and standard map exploration but with more strategic enemy placement. FW is similar but larger in scale, and there isn't too much annoying platforming.
I will take another look at it and also Speed of Doom.
 

The Dutch Ghost

Arbiter
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
590
It is very impressive that people have been able to get so much out of the Doom engine, expanding the basic Doom 2 engine into something that can be expanded with new effects and modern gameplay mechanics, but BOA makes it clear that the engine just does not play well with these.
Maybe it can be made to work better with more expanded scripts but I think modders would be better off by using a much more modern engine for that.
Yeah, I love the idea of a working and satisfying stealth mechanic in a doom engine wad, but it's not the Dark Engine. Some of these modders just stretch and stretch that ancient engine until its just a long string of sticky taffy that just breaks away and gets in your beard and sticks in your craw.
There was a gameplay mod called Sneaky Doom years ago that tried to mix Thief and Splinter Cell style stealth (so shadows, sound, movement speed) with Doom. Also Fortune's Run back when it was a GZDoom TC (it is now a commercial game running on a different engine) experimented with light and shadows based stealth, there was a playable demo that showcased their stealth mechanics. Both these projects are from almost a decade ago.
That would be an improvement over the current mechanic which is very broken. Triggers don't always work as they should and some bugs cause problems, even when one reloads an earlier save.
Personally I think it might have been better if this level had been cut or had been redesigned when the flaws became apparent.

I had also intended to write a bit about my experience with the campaign itself but that would be a big post and I don't have time right now for that.
But I just can't seem to get any 'feeling' for BOA despite that this should be my thing. Maybe it is because I am depressed or maybe I am just very jaded about FPS games, but I can just not feel the excitement that I had for RTCW and even Wolfenstein 2009 back when I played those games for the first time.
 

Jack Of Owls

Prophet
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
3,527
Location
Massachusettes
I did notice something about "improved stealth" in the readme for BoA but I don't remember if that was for all 3 episodes and if the first 2 episodes got revisions or just for episode 3 so at least the author seemed aware of the issues. Since sneakling around and stealthy kills are among my favorite game mechanics, that would certainly be a big incentive for me to play the trilogy. Nothing in 45 years of gaming has ever given me the same thrill I had as the first time I played Wolf3D in 1993 or Duke3D a couple of years later. It's an age thing. Becoming jaded is inevitable, I think.
 
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Alphons

Cipher
Joined
Nov 20, 2019
Messages
2,045
The stealth mechanic was fine when it was optional, as you can stab 2 guys, disable an alarm and then massacre the rest with shotgun because they saw you in their wonky cones of view.

Making it mandatory for the entire level just showed the glaring holes that I'd otherwise ignore.
 

Curratum

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
4,008
Is it a bird? Is it a plane?

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No, it's just the Ashes 2063 addon I was working on that will never be finished because I lost the files in a dead hard drive
:dead:
 

Wereknight

Literate
Joined
Jul 31, 2022
Messages
6
Location
Your walls
I did notice something about "improved stealth" in the readme for BoA but I don't remember if that was for all 3 episodes and if the first 2 episodes got revisions or just for episode 3 so at least the author seemed aware of the issues. Since sneakling around and stealthy kills are among my favorite game mechanics, that would certainly be a big incentive for me to play the trilogy. Nothing in 45 years of gaming has ever given me the same thrill I had as the first time I played Wolf3D in 1993 or Duke3D a couple of years later. It's an age thing. Becoming jaded is inevitable, I think.
Last time I've played there was no proper stealth in Episode 2 and it's still not there,probably for the better.

But, yeah, I guess they have refined ep.2-3 stealth mechanics. That still will not save you from being owned in ep.3 secret level. Nobody is save.
 

MuffinBun

Educated
Joined
Jul 9, 2022
Messages
134
I'm playing Brutal Wolfenstein right now, and it's really good. I've beaten the first episode(with the Aryan 2000 boss), I don't think I'll go much further, as its a bit too gruesome for me, but its a lot of fun. Great gameplay loop. Despite that after an hour or two it became very clear to me why Carmack was wrong with his comment on story in games. This gameplay itself beats that from most of other games, but without anything else to look for, no characters, storylines, story secrets or such developments, its also very short lived. The older doom formula would be perfect when applied as gameplay in overall larger games, even rpg-likes. Unfortunately most of the copycats just use it in same ways.

Back to Wolfenstein: I really liked how each weapon forces its own playstyle. On normal you get enough ammo to mostly play the way you like, and it is fun to specialize, or even play pistol only for teh lulz; this echoes the feeling one gets by playing a specific build, but at the same time you can(and sometimes will be convinced to by level design) switch 'classes', so it does not get stale or too restrictive. You can play one level mostly as a sharpshooter with a trusty k98, and go into the next one blasting close quaters with mp40. Its the best of both worlds, between specialization and variety.

Most weapons fill a niche. The kar 98 is especially well designed - powerful, bolt action, with a specific gimmick that if you empty the whole magazine, the reload will be much faster (you're using a speedloader instead of inserting cartridges one by one). I really appreciate details like this and wish they were implemented for each gun. It slightly shakes up the playstyle.

Unlike in basic Doom most of the engagements will take place in doorways, which rises suspicion that it may get very repetitive. It did not, at least for me. I found that a really interesting formula that led to some memorable moments. It reminds me of the old swat games or ready or not room clearing. Aside from that there are some arena-like moments focused on movement and prioritization of enemies. The enemy design, straight out of the original game, is impressively clever - clear color coding and different function of each enemy, with no redundancy. Also unlike in Doom, the levels have some 'immersive' elements to it - you can sometimes figure out the function of the rooms or different sections of the map, they feel a bit more like real places, which adds a bit of that very much needed non-shooty content.

I had fun, and would recommend to anyone who has not tried it yet.
 

Baron Dupek

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,868,990
Location
Kitchen sink
soon
 

toughasnails

Learned
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
542
The first one is so-so, you can tell he was p much learning the ropes there, but the second one is great. His Lycanthorn 2 is p good too, simple but fun 3D take on classic Castlevania with overworld and multiple playable characters.
 

Baron Dupek

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,868,990
Location
Kitchen sink
Shrine 1 have cool music but simple gameplay and map layout. Not that difficult with the exception of final boss.
Sequel improved everything - lot of secrets, some required some work and twists, map layout changed for better, but music got way worse... wish they just copypasted music from the first game and call it a day.
 

ferratilis

Magister
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
1,225
Looks like classic Dooms were pulled from sale on Steam. Any guesses on what's going on?
They're consolidating the releases, it seems. When you buy Doom 2, you get Final Doom and Master Levels included. When you buy Doom 3, you get BFG Edition. At least it seems that way, for now.
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2012
Messages
6,680
Location
Overlook Hotel
Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I'm playing Brutal Wolfenstein right now, and it's really good.

When it comes to weapons, original was really weak in that department, and you just used chaingun for most of the time.
BW gives a lot of new toys to play with, and with added gore system levels felt fresh again for me. The ability to destroy pillars with grenades made some of them easier as well. Being able to have double lugers or machine gun also makes killing way easier. Kar 98 is also great, if you time your attacks well in less populated areas, you can quickly one shot every enemy without taking a hit. Just like in Rise of The Triad, soldiers beg for mercy occasionally. Going back to vanilla version seems pointless for me now.
 

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