Is Dark Souls overrated?

[NotAGolfer]

It was a joke, idgaf about Twitcher. Just pointing out that saying "the story is retarded" doesn't mean shit.

See, we even agree on this. You point out that the only way to succeed on your first try would be to be very very very cautious and to proceed slowly, and I wrote that that's not the kind of action gameplay I enjoy.
It has to have some rythm to it and it has to be fast-paced or it's just not for me.
And don't pretend that a lot of players approach DS that way, we both know that ain't true.

How should I know how many people approached it expecting Ninja Gaiden? Anyway, I think a game shouldn't be judged based on what you wanted it to be.

Why the fuck not?!

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Because Dark Souls is

Spoiler

good for what it is

 

[Metro]

Why do people say Ninja Gaiden is hard? I'm pretty sure I beat it as a 10 year old on NES.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Try playing it today. 10 year old me was a much better player in some aspects.

 

[Lacrymas]

something, something, chipping away at mobs, rinse and repeat, something, something

That's why I said the whole game should be structured differently and the challenges should be tackled differently, not just keeping the same formula but not respawning the mobs and not replenishing your resources. How this can be done I'm not entirely sure, since I'm not a game designer and I just threw that idea out there. Maybe it won't work, maybe it will, someone actually has to do it and design it in such a way as to prevent your feared scenario.

I mean, you said Dark Souls is "trial and error" instead of "discovery through journey". How the fuck is this trial and error and not discovery through exploration? By this logic, coming across any item, character, or location without having prior knowledge of its presence there must be "trial and error".

Dark Souls is one of the games that has had the most said and written about it. There are design docs and interviews from the developers explaining their thought process and design philosophy behind nearly everything in the game.

But despite all that, you keep insisting that From Software are a bunch of clueless amateurs who don't know what they're doing or why they're doing it and that it just somehow worked out through sheer luck, all because it "smells" or "feels" that way to you. Yeah, you're fucking hopeless.

It's trial and error because most of the time you'll be exploring and finding nothing, then repeat until you actually find something. You have the logic the other way around. I said it still works, it just doesn't feel intentional, though I can't actually explain why it feels unintentional to me, it's mostly the lack of any kind of information about any of this, I suppose. Even if it is intentional, intentionally vague is still vague, whether that helps atmosphere or not I can't say. It does kind of raise the question whether atmosphere building trumps elegance in design, but this is still not my main point in this whole debacle and I've stated multiple times that I have no serious problems with the narrative. Anyway, I would like to read some of those design docs (no post-factum interviews though), if you can link them.

Also, I never said they are clueless amateurs, I said that I think, by using the marker system, they thought they could get away with being as vague as possible, and it did work. The only thing I'm not certain of is the proclamations that this is intentional genius. The design docs can prove that I suppose. The worst case scenario would be if they implemented the marker system in-itself, just for the sake of having a multiplayer component, without any thought about how that would affect the exploration. I keep insisting on that, because I don't trust developers who become popular (there's nothing wrong with popularity in of itself, but experience and education has taught me that popular things are 99% of the time shit. And before this is also quoted out of context, no, this is not some hipster bullshit thinking, it's simply the truth when you are educated enough to see it) to actually think about what they are doing. Guilty until proven innocent, I suppose. Again, the design docs would prove that. If it happens to be a very logical and deliberate thought process, then kudos to them. This still isn't my main problem. My main problem being the perceived difficulty and the grand proclamations that this one of the, if not THE, best games ever made. That's why the thread is about overrating.

Nah, this shit is not enough. You have to articulate your arguments explicitly. Why do you think the article quotes Kierkegaard out of context, and why did you say FROM wasn't trying to use it as world building? Especially if you assume that artists don't stumble randomly onto valuable insights, because then there's no other explanation why Dark Souls 2 shares so many features with other works of art etc. It must have been intentional then!

Because the whole quote is actually this - "Temporality, finitude-this is what it is all about. I can resign everything by my own strength and find peace and rest in the pain; I can put up with everything-even if that dreadful demon, more horrifying than the skeletal one who terrifies me, even if madness held its fools costume before my eyes and I understood from its face that it was I who should put it on-I can still save my soul as long as my concern that my love of God conquer within me is greater than my concern that I achieve earthly happiness."

There is this talk of saving the soul which is suspiciously absent. The "must have been intentional then!" is kinda affirming the consequent. It should be intentional because they referred other art, not the other way around (i.e. They refer other art so it's intentional). I actually don't know what art DS2 shares features with because I haven't played it, I'm just stating my concerns. I also haven't read Fear and Trembling yet, so I wouldn't know if what he's saying in the article is true or not, it may just be taking Kierkegaard out of context.

 

[sullynathan]

Why do people bring up Witcher in dark souls discussions? The series has shit combat.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Muh writing?

I wouldn't know. I couldn't get past the intro in Witcher 3. Too Hollywood for my tastes.

 

[Kutulu]

Why do people bring up Witcher in dark souls discussions? The series has shit combat.

Id say the worst combat...

 

[Black_Willow]

Diablo 1 is better in every aspect than Derp Souls, which is a so-so action game.

 

[Bastion]

And once again, people are talking mostly about Dark Souls while putting Demon aside (Maiden Astraea, Let strength be granted so the world might be mended - does it ring a bell?).

Dark Souls wasn't difficult, it was just wasting your time with needless respawns you could actually run past. Dark Souls' only "virtue" is that it became popular for some reason. I could write a whole essay about why it's overrated to a parodical extreme. Two Worlds was always a pos which also became popular and has 2 sequels, go figure.

Yep, the truth has been told. Nothing to add.

Sure, but dark souls is hardly the first "hard" game to have arrived in this new generation.

Play Wings of Vi, Dark isn't hard, it's simply annoying.

There is, the narrative is whatever the player makes of it.

And so we have people spending hours reading item descriptions.

 

[Brayko]

Yes and no.

Yes because it's inarticulate and grindy. No because it's challenging and it stands on its own two feet.

 

[Lhynn]

Play Wings of Vi, Dark isn't hard, it's simply annoying.

Completely missed the point of the " ", did you?

And so we have people spending hours reading item descriptions.

Whatever floats their boat, i meant the journey you embark on when you start the game, and what you do to get to the end.

 

[Sothpaw]

Just some stuff that caught my eye in the thread and my thoughts.

Dark Souls isn't hard:


Story is shit:
Lol who cares japs can't write

Bringing up Two Worlds in a Souls thread:

 

[Jick Magger]

This thread is the most disappointing thing since my son.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Why do people bring up Witcher in dark souls discussions? The series has shit combat.

This is RPG Codex, Witcher is always relevant.

 

[Raghar]

Using killscreen as a positive point of reference is surely bannable?

https://killscreen.com/articles/the-demolition-of-japans-videogame-history/
https://killscreen.com/articles/the-bizarre-burton-esque-jrpg-that-almost-got-away-returns-on-ps4/

These articles looks completely fine...

 

[Raghar]

I've beaten Dark Souls about 4 times and even I don't think I can beat every single boss without using any potions.

Bed of Chaos.
Taurus demon.
Ceaseles discharge.
Gapping dragon.
When you are lucky pinwheel.
Seath.
Possibly Neto.

 

[sullynathan]

Id say the worst combat...

This is RPG Codex, Witcher is always relevant.

Really disappointed when people say TW has "more depth" than DS in terms of gameplay because you have oils and a bestiary.

 

[Gerrard]

Dark Souls is way too tough to be fun and I like hard games.

Reminds me of the old school Devil May Cry games which I could never make it past the beginning of either.

The difference between DS and DMC is that DMC actually requires skill.

 

[United Nations]

Dark Souls is way too tough to be fun and I like hard games.

Reminds me of the old school Devil May Cry games which I could never make it past the beginning of either.

The difference between DS and DMC is that DMC actually requires skill.

Both are stupid tough, and if it wasn't for the difficulty, I would really liked them both.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

But the save system IS just annoying. Why do i HAVE TO either farm these dumb one hit enemies or run around them if i died at a boss?

 

[Sothpaw]

Really disappointed when people say TW has "more depth" than DS in terms of gameplay because you have oils and a bestiary.

TW combat doesn't have as much depth as Dynasty Warriors let alone DS.

 

[Amn Nom]

Dark Souls has the best combat of any game I can think of off the top of my head in the last decade.

God knows I'm a Souls fanboy, but Dragon's Dogma clowns it. Grab the PC version and see what I mean. Souls is easily the second best though.

 

[Volrath]

It was a joke, idgaf about Twitcher. Just pointing out that saying "the story is retarded" doesn't mean shit.

See, we even agree on this. You point out that the only way to succeed on your first try would be to be very very very cautious and to proceed slowly, and I wrote that that's not the kind of action gameplay I enjoy.
It has to have some rythm to it and it has to be fast-paced or it's just not for me.
And don't pretend that a lot of players approach DS that way, we both know that ain't true.

How should I know how many people approached it expecting Ninja Gaiden? Anyway, I think a game shouldn't be judged based on what you wanted it to be.

Why the fuck not?!

Git gud fagget

 

[toro]

 

[WhatAreYou?ACasul?]

Homophobia is not the answer!