Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[Papill0n]

which mod is relevant for the 3 tutorial mooks becoming killer machines?

 

[Yosharian]

which mod is relevant for the 3 tutorial mooks becoming killer machines?

Probably the one that gives them perks and skills, Tactical AI (those are optional settings and I'm having second thoughts about them LOL)

I'm on the second map now having got past those 3 guys using a stealth tactics, but holy shit this one is on another level

 

[Yosharian]

Although Rato's overhaul mod does its fair share to increase difficulty, it's more in the sense that gunplay becomes a lot more complex, but these guys are throwing smoke grenades to cover their assault, avoiding overwatch cones where at all possible, using tons of stick grenades, just holy shit. I'm having to restart the campaign, I need to seriously alter my strategy to get past these initial maps.

It's insane to me that the tutorial level has guys using stick grenades on me lmao. I turned off C-UAE's Extra Grenades setting, maybe that will help some.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

Beat the game. Final fight really shouldn't have forced the player to start in combat and too many flashbangs.

What did you think of the game?

 

[deuxhero]

Pretty good. Some questionable choices (as covered), but overall great. 4/5, a JA4 could be an easy 5/5 if they do it.

 

[3 others]

which mod is relevant for the 3 tutorial mooks becoming killer machines?

Probably the one that gives them perks and skills, Tactical AI (those are optional settings and I'm having second thoughts about them LOL)

I'm on the second map now having got past those 3 guys using a stealth tactics, but holy shit this one is on another level

Some time back, I tried out Tactical AI + something called Gunfight Reworked (which fairly enough was listed as "Brutality & lethality of hardcore JA3 battlefield overhaul" on the Tactical AI workshop page). While the amount of tweaks the modders have managed to implement is impressive, making drastic changes to core mechanics would often require drastic changes in many other places too. Gunfight Reworked extends both the gun range and daytime visual range, and emphasizes the importance of cover and armor, which actually change the gameplay to an interesting methodical slugfest of soldiers supporting one another with overwatch and assaulting breaches with concentrated fire. However, by making the firefights more realistic, it just emphasizes how absurd the beginning of all Jagged Alliances is with your squishy unarmored idiots running around with their underpowered sidearms and getting shredded by natives and their SMGs. To get a sensible opening sequence, you'd have to alter the starting equipment to be more in line with what soldiers contracted to a warzone might arrive with, or alter the tutorial island difficulty otherwise, or something else completely.

Or perhaps the reason was using Tactical AI in combination with that. It really does make enemies impressively smart and well-equipped so every Goon that sees you is a potential grenade to your squad's neck the next turn. The fuckers were even able to be Hidden and deploy unseen overwatch ambushes (not sure which one of the mods did that though). I stopped playing the game after Ernie Village because the enemy overwatches had a bug where all the remaining attacks would fire at the same time, and receiving 150 bullets after wiggling one ass hair semi-visible behind a boulder, while hilarious, started feeling tedious.

I'm still waiting for some sort of consensus mod-combos to emerge from this "laboratory". This attempt had potential, and maybe it will provide a basis for an enhanced JA3 experience in the future, but the end product isn't there quite yet. Rato's Gameplay Balance works because it doesn't try to do anything this drastic.

 

[Strange Fellow]

This is all sounding very promising. I feel a replay coming on real soon.

 

[Papill0n]

which mod is relevant for the 3 tutorial mooks becoming killer machines?

Probably the one that gives them perks and skills, Tactical AI (those are optional settings and I'm having second thoughts about them LOL)

I'm on the second map now having got past those 3 guys using a stealth tactics, but holy shit this one is on another level

Some time back, I tried out Tactical AI + something called Gunfight Reworked (which fairly enough was listed as "Brutality & lethality of hardcore JA3 battlefield overhaul" on the Tactical AI workshop page). While the amount of tweaks the modders have managed to implement is impressive, making drastic changes to core mechanics would often require drastic changes in many other places too. Gunfight Reworked extends both the gun range and daytime visual range, and emphasizes the importance of cover and armor, which actually change the gameplay to an interesting methodical slugfest of soldiers supporting one another with overwatch and assaulting breaches with concentrated fire. However, by making the firefights more realistic, it just emphasizes how absurd the beginning of all Jagged Alliances is with your squishy unarmored idiots running around with their underpowered sidearms and getting shredded by natives and their SMGs. To get a sensible opening sequence, you'd have to alter the starting equipment to be more in line with what soldiers contracted to a warzone might arrive with, or alter the tutorial island difficulty otherwise, or something else completely.

Or perhaps the reason was using Tactical AI in combination with that. It really does make enemies impressively smart and well-equipped so every Goon that sees you is a potential grenade to your squad's neck the next turn. The fuckers were even able to be Hidden and deploy unseen overwatch ambushes (not sure which one of the mods did that though). I stopped playing the game after Ernie Village because the enemy overwatches had a bug where all the remaining attacks would fire at the same time, and receiving 150 bullets after wiggling one ass hair semi-visible behind a boulder, while hilarious, started feeling tedious.

I'm still waiting for some sort of consensus mod-combos to emerge from this "laboratory". This attempt had potential, and maybe it will provide a basis for an enhanced JA3 experience in the future, but the end product isn't there quite yet. Rato's Gameplay Balance works because it doesn't try to do anything this drastic.

So I'm gonna have to try the tactical AI thing together with my own mods someday soon. People usually make the AI "smarter" or "harder" by giving them super lame buffs. Will see
*edit* Too bad it requires some weaponmod stuff as a prerequisite. Well anyway.

The gunfight reworked idea is something I would have modded as well one day. Kind of just making better combat scales. Like not fighting from one crate to the next but really over some distance, with lots of objects in the way.

Starting gear can be changed quite easily. I am personally not a fan of the "Pistol-round" start in Ja2 and Ja3 and could easily do without. Just turn pistols into backup sidearms for snipers or soemthing and be done with it. But lots of people like it because it's the most challenging part. Getting the rest comparably challenging would be awesome, though.

 

[Yosharian]

I can't comment on Gunfight Reworked, but Rato is basically a genius who's trying to bring JA2-style gameplay to the game as far as I can tell.

Both Rato's and Tac AI have been worked on considerably over the last year and look pretty polished to me.

Yes it's a jarring start to the game but for me, this makes sense. I arrive on the island with very little cash, only able to hire rookies. I'm going up against pretty hardened rebels from the get-go. The odds are stacked against me, this isn't a fun walk in the park.

I'm ok with this. Just need to adapt.

 

[Yosharian]

Oh and yeah I agree somewhat with the idea of giving your starting mercs better weapons. But to be honest, weapons aren't the main issue haha.

 

[Krivol]

Oh and yeah I agree somewhat with the idea of giving your starting mercs better weapons.

Yeah, that is a common problem with combat squad games. In JA2 - let's conquer a military despotic country! With 3 pistols and a knife!
Wasteland? We have information that shit is going on in the desert! Grab that pistol, a crowbar and go fuck yourself!

But it's similar to the enemy's reaction - the country is burning? Let's keep our elite forces (and tanks!) in the capital city, rookies will do best!
Also, I wouldn't say I like the lack of morale in those games. "This band of mercs is kicking our asses, they just killed 15 of my friends, we are fighting for a bitch we hate! So what? Let's die for her!"

 

[3 others]

Well, to paraphrase Soren Johnson, the purpose of AI in single-player games is to lose in an intetesting manner, so making concessions to realism is acceptable, and usually essential in game design.

The Drassen counterattack in JA2 1.13 is a notorious example of an AI adversary behaving rationally, and it produces a scenario that's probably impossible for 99% of players to pass without savescumming. There's a time and a place for that kind of experience, but it is a hardcore niche.

Personally, I enjoy the "pistol round" early game against low-level mooks. It creates a steady sense of accomplishment as you progress to Mini-14s and SMGs in the midgame, and further into AUGs and PSGs later on.

 

[Yosharian]

Second map is down. I got unlucky this time, got a broken AK-47 instead of the modded MP-40 I got last time, and Barry somehow managed to fuck up an 'Extremely Likely' Shaped Charge throw leading to him having to waste a second one. And Livewire got injured which will cost me $1100 which I give her the boot. Still, just managing to solve this map was an extremely exhilarating experience.

AI is very intelligent, but still predictable. Once you have knowledge of how they will respond to a given situation, you can prepare plans to exploit their movements. Still, their tactics are on a whole other level compared to vanilla. Very challenging.

 

[Zombra]

Oh and yeah I agree somewhat with the idea of giving your starting mercs better weapons.

Yeah, that is a common problem with combat squad games. In JA2 - let's conquer a military despotic country! With 3 pistols and a knife!
Wasteland? We have information that shit is going on in the desert! Grab that pistol, a crowbar and go fuck yourself!
But it's similar to the enemy's reaction - the country is burning? Let's keep our elite forces (and tanks!) in the capital city, rookies will do best!

What's the alternative? If you want a sense of progress in a game, you have to start small and build up to big. Would it solve the "problem" if all guns except assault rifles were simply removed?

 

[ropetight]

Is there any way to install mods form SteamWorkshop on GOG version?

 

[3 others]

Is there any way to install mods form SteamWorkshop on GOG version?

Yes

 

[Krivol]

Oh and yeah I agree somewhat with the idea of giving your starting mercs better weapons.

Yeah, that is a common problem with combat squad games. In JA2 - let's conquer a military despotic country! With 3 pistols and a knife!
Wasteland? We have information that shit is going on in the desert! Grab that pistol, a crowbar and go fuck yourself!
But it's similar to the enemy's reaction - the country is burning? Let's keep our elite forces (and tanks!) in the capital city, rookies will do best!

What's the alternative? If you want a sense of progress in a game, you have to start small and build up to big. Would it solve the "problem" if all guns except assault rifles were simply removed?

I never said I hate starting with guns . A good alternative would be plot-related - your team will be transported via regular plane so that they can smuggle just 3 pistols and a knife to the combat zone.

 

[Zombra]

I never said I hate starting with guns . A good alternative would be plot-related - your team will be transported via regular plane so that they can smuggle just 3 pistols and a knife to the combat zone.

Creative, I like it. It's so great when the fiction supports the gameplay. I will say though that once you commit to having a strong answer to every question about "why video game", you will never have time to do anything else ever again

 

[Yosharian]

Holy fucking shit. Just liberated Ernie village. That was fucking insane. If I hadn't managed to somehow split the two groups, I would never have been able to do it ( and that is a LOT more difficult when enemies have +60% detection lmao).

 

[destinae vomitus]

So has there been any attempt by modders to properly overhaul the inventory yet? And I don't mean just the UI (which stinks), it's so dumbed down compared to JA2 since ammo is all stored in "hammerspace" and there's no encumbrance even. I understand that some or maybe even a lot of people aren't into that kind of fiddly micromanagement, but for instance not having to make sure that everyone has spare ammo removes those odd few exciting moments where you need to toss a magazine to someone in the midst of a firefight, then again though you can't even throw inventory items in this so nevermind I guess.

 

[Papill0n]

I never said I hate starting with guns . A good alternative would be plot-related - your team will be transported via regular plane so that they can smuggle just 3 pistols and a knife to the combat zone.

Creative, I like it. It's so great when the fiction supports the gameplay. I will say though that once you commit to having a strong answer to every question about "why video game", you will never have time to do anything else ever again

Creative? More like simple plot device to justify pistol round?

A sense of progression can still be achieved even if starting gear is not complete garbage. There's strategic progression, i.e. we take over new sectors. There's character progression obviously (even more so in JA3 than Ja2 because of the level-up perks) and there can be non-weapon loot progression such that we find cooler stuff as we progress in the game. Can be anything, really. There's also weapon modfication progression as we only get hold of many parts and thus weapon modifications as the game progresses (and these matter a lot in Ja3). There can also be ammo /caliber scarcity that may force you to drop your gun (temporarily) for an AK-47 because you have ammo for the latter but ran out of 5.56 for the thing you brought. There can be quest progression in that quests may not be just annoying errands but such as they foreshadow that there could be reasonable reward for those quests (Example of how not to do them: middle of nowhere treasure hunt because, well underwhelming treasure for a long quest). There's story progression too, obviously.
I know a lot of people like the pistol round, I'm not taking it anyway from anybody, just saying that whoever doesn't really like it can still have strong feelings of progressing into the game with slightly less nonsensical weapon progression systems.

 

[Zombra]

Creative? More like simple plot device to justify pistol round?

 

[deuxhero]

Oh and yeah I agree somewhat with the idea of giving your starting mercs better weapons.

Yeah, that is a common problem with combat squad games. In JA2 - let's conquer a military despotic country! With 3 pistols and a knife!
Wasteland? We have information that shit is going on in the desert! Grab that pistol, a crowbar and go fuck yourself!
But it's similar to the enemy's reaction - the country is burning? Let's keep our elite forces (and tanks!) in the capital city, rookies will do best!

What's the alternative? If you want a sense of progress in a game, you have to start small and build up to big. Would it solve the "problem" if all guns except assault rifles were simply removed?

More variety in the trash guns that are trash in interesting ways. Like a JA4 in east asia might have rebored Arisakas in 7.62x39 (single shot only unless an easy mod is installed), pump shotgun, .22s, straight blowback SMGs (low accuracy at anything beyond point blank, no single shot) etc. Actually, that reminds me of something JA3 needed to do: Play with the AP cost of guns more for manually cycled. Weird to see semi-auto sniper rifle be just as slow as any other sniper rifle.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

Just started this today. The game's been fun enough so far, but holy crap the art style... what a catastrophe. And the VA is just unbearable(wtf did they do to Ice?), and that's without going into the dialogue. You can at least mute the voices(which is sad, because JA/JA2 had so many great lines).

Is there a list of mods to make this next-gen experience more palatable? There's a so-called "Art Restoration Project" in the Steam Workshop which restores some JA2 portraits, but its treatment of default portraits makes them arguably even worse:

I'm playing a game about mercs, why am I being reminded of college?

I like this style better, even if it's AI trash:

https://www.nexusmods.com/jaggedalliance3/mods/219?tab=posts

Unfortunately, it doesn't replace the default characters.

 

[3 others]

I think the art style is completely fine, and that there's nothing wrong with the dialogue quality, but some characters are certainly better personalities than others. Generally the mercs are written around a certain gimmick, and if you want to be charitable about it, they're going to be in character all the time. For some, this works. Nails totally nails the tone of a renegade 1%er, and some others are also good like Hitman the walking dad joke or Buns who only now feels like the "prim and proper" besserwisser she was intended to be in JA2. Tex is also an example of a comedy character done right.

Then there are the misses like Blood where a single throwaway line from JA2 has been elevated to a cornerstone of his personality (still like him, just feels like a totally different character), Ice who looks and sounds like an extra from Pekka ja Pätkä neekereinä, and Fidel whose tone is just completely off, a reddit user's idea of what a madman is like.

You're also being too charitable to the quality of voice acting in the previous games. Apart from the excellent Malice, the non-anglo accents were all over the place.