Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[raeven]

Yes. I fell in love with the game.
There is only a handful of things that disappoint or frustrate me.
The biggest one is the UI and inventory management, which is pretty barebones (and might be the reason why there are no real vendors, but you purchase predefined items by interacting with the map).
And for the combat it's this damage reduction. At the beginning I didn't think it would be that big of an issue, but the way this damage reduction works for bursts and full auto actually promotes the degenrate silent sniper gameplay.
Basically if you single shots are preferred, than why not use those with highest single shot damage - hence why sniper rifles trump assault rifles in this game. And if you pick a sniper rifle, why not attach a silencer.
Machine guns have their own niche and are actually useful, but you need to manage your ammo well if you are using one of those - either craft a lot of your MG ammo, or switch to a different ammo standard for the rest of the team.

Agreed on both points, in that order of importance too. The lack of sector inventory sorting is baffling to me. I was replaying JA2 recently in anticipation and I was thinking about all the cool new sorting options JA3 would likely have... Then the first time I closed and reopened sector stash with everything still unsorted I died a little inside.

Im curious why burst and auto fire needed a damage nerf. They are already pretty inaccurate without it. I do think it is funny that a lot of issues with the game are re-creating issues that existed in JA2 as well.

That said, also agreed about falling in love with the game. It feels like a JA game to me.

 

[Beowulf]

Oh - one more thing. It seems like raising your stats doesn't work for increasing your AP's or increasing the backpack space. Seems like your mercs are stuck with what they have from the start.

 

[bobocrunch]

Shaped Charge Mishap!

 

[gogis]

Yes. I fell in love with the game.
There is only a handful of things that disappoint or frustrate me.
The biggest one is the UI and inventory management, which is pretty barebones (and might be the reason why there are no real vendors, but you purchase predefined items by interacting with the map).
And for the combat it's this damage reduction. At the beginning I didn't think it would be that big of an issue, but the way this damage reduction works for bursts and full auto actually promotes the degenrate silent sniper gameplay.
Basically if you single shots are preferred, than why not use those with highest single shot damage - hence why sniper rifles trump assault rifles in this game. And if you pick a sniper rifle, why not attach a silencer.
Machine guns have their own niche and are actually useful, but you need to manage your ammo well if you are using one of those - either craft a lot of your MG ammo, or switch to a different ammo standard for the rest of the team.

The problem with burst on assault rifles is that for some retarded reason each individual bullet in burst mode does less damage than single shot. I don't know what were they smoking but if you have gun which have 26 damage, for some reason it becomes something like 3*10 (wtf??) I still use it to spend "bad" ammo like 5.56 and 9m and conserve 7.62 wp/nato for sniper/mg's. That's being said, in mid-range encounters two burst with high calibre rifle does the same job as headshot from sniper rifle, you basically choosing between "may I do some guaranteed damage" vs "my idiot sniper missed 3 shots in a row".

Also, you haven't mentioned other sources. Explosives and melee specialists with proper perks are bonkers. Barry wiping 5-6 enemies with one shaping charge on demand will put smile on your face. In hard battles (like mafia boss mansion if you choose "kill all" option) your snipers will be burden - killing one enemy per turn is just not enough when you fighting 30 people bum-rushing you

 

[gogis]

I heard all mines will deplete eventually, is that true?

Just like in JA2. One of my early mines depleted already. I am more interested if timer is running on mines I do not control

 

[Morgoth]

So is this game actually good?

 

[gogis]

So is this game actually good?

Yes

 

[Abu Antar]

So is this game actually good?

Good tactical game? Yes.

Good Jagged Alliance game? Opinions are all over the place.

 

[raeven]

So is this game actually good?

Opinions are like assholes, the only way to find yours is to look for yourself

 

[Morgoth]

So is this game actually good?

Good tactical game? Yes.

Good Jagged Alliance game? Opinions are all over the place.

Do you mean it's another XCOM clone?

 

[Abu Antar]

So is this game actually good?

Good tactical game? Yes.

Good Jagged Alliance game? Opinions are all over the place.

Do you mean it's another XCOM clone?

Combat initiation is basically like XCOM, but combat in general? No.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Yes. I fell in love with the game.
There is only a handful of things that disappoint or frustrate me.
The biggest one is the UI and inventory management,

That said, also agreed about falling in love with the game. It feels like a JA game to me.

Just to make sure I wasn't just relying on shaky/nostalgic memories I went and spent a couple of hours playing JA2 AGAIN yesterday.
After playing both games back to back, I honestly think they have some very solid foundations in place here. IF they decide to move in the right direction rather than make more poor decisions this could become almost as good as JA2.

It wouldn't take much more than some post-release support (or maybe even a DLC) to have a worthy JA successor.
Modify a bit the initial engagement phase (adding active pause or whatever solution they can come up with to make it less messy), re-tweak some formulas here and there to adjust balance/scaling, do some clean-up on the UI, maybe add a proper shop somewhere and we are basically there.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Do you mean it's another XCOM clone?

It's really not.
You'd know, if you actually played it.

 

[Parsimonious cook]

So... is this any gud?

 

[Infinitron]

Should I cause butthurt adding "Codex Consensus: Neutral-Positive" to the thread title?

 

[raeven]

Should I cause butthurt adding "Codex Consensus: Neutral-Positive" to the thread title?

If causing grognard butthurt is the goal I'd go with "universal acclaim" instead

 

[gogis]

So is this game actually good?

Good tactical game? Yes.

Good Jagged Alliance game? Opinions are all over the place.

Do you mean it's another XCOM clone?

I'ts more similar to Wasteland, but better

let's recap.

- You have something similar to XCOM pod activation mechanic, but not really. It's not POD, it's per individual, all enemies who see action will react. Unless you initiated combat with agressive action, they tend to seek cover on first round, but it's wildly inconsistent, I encountered both shooting and stabbing when they supposed to run for cover. I don't have enough data of why this happens. If you initiate combat yourself, all your shoot/overwatch guys will have their AP spent
- You DO NOT have double action of XCOM. I'ts AP, just like in JA2/Wasteland. I wish they inflated AP number, like 1.13, for granularity, but we get what we get. I think they tried to copy JA2 instead of 1.13, which is questionable decision, but whatever. AP depends on same stats and expended with different speed depending on stance, just like JA.
- Despite couple retards here insist that game have binary hit/miss system like nuXCOM, it's properly simulates bullet physics. You will get stray hits, you will get wall penetration, floor destructions with fall damage and hits to different (from which you intended) body parts. Game literally have free aim mode (which you should use for better shotgun cones) if you dislike XCOM-like selection of targets. Once you get your first MG, any doubts about that will dissipate. Pretty much like JA2 minus bullet drop (which many people disable in 1.13 anyways)
- The cover system, it's basically visual. You see that pile of rubble? You see it red-broken-shield when you stay, it becomes half-shield when you crouch and full cover when you prone. Bad news it's not gonna provide any cover the steeper the angle from enemy to that cover. Not like nuXCOM, where full cover is full cover., unless you perfectly 90+ degrees flank it. Not to mention, that you don't see shit and can't shoot directly through that cover, so expect crouch/prone hopping. General advice - don't rely on UI cover representation at all - if it looks shabby or questionable it's indeed shabby and questionable.
- Overwatch system. Very similar to XCOM, but it's cone (unless you have merc with 360 degree), be careful with setup, because your merc can leave cover to set it up.

I think you getting so much feedback about it being close to nuXCOM than to JA2 because a) people are generally morons b) they don't play both games like I do regularly (and I play openXCOM too a lot). This game is infinitely closer to JA2 than to XCOM, not even close, even if it's need a lot of fixing.

 

[Alienman]

Yes. I fell in love with the game.
There is only a handful of things that disappoint or frustrate me.
The biggest one is the UI and inventory management, which is pretty barebones (and might be the reason why there are no real vendors, but you purchase predefined items by interacting with the map).
And for the combat it's this damage reduction. At the beginning I didn't think it would be that big of an issue, but the way this damage reduction works for bursts and full auto actually promotes the degenrate silent sniper gameplay.
Basically if you single shots are preferred, than why not use those with highest single shot damage - hence why sniper rifles trump assault rifles in this game. And if you pick a sniper rifle, why not attach a silencer.
Machine guns have their own niche and are actually useful, but you need to manage your ammo well if you are using one of those - either craft a lot of your MG ammo, or switch to a different ammo standard for the rest of the team.

Agreed on both points, in that order of importance too. The lack of sector inventory sorting is baffling to me. I was replaying JA2 recently in anticipation and I was thinking about all the cool new sorting options JA3 would likely have... Then the first time I closed and reopened sector stash with everything still unsorted I died a little inside.

Im curious why burst and auto fire needed a damage nerf. They are already pretty inaccurate without it. I do think it is funny that a lot of issues with the game are re-creating issues that existed in JA2 as well.

That said, also agreed about falling in love with the game. It feels like a JA game to me.

I think you might have to limit yourself a bit, not going full snipers, aka optimize the shit out of the game, even if a game like JA is meant for it. I run a random crew with usually only one sniper. I like my close-combat smg dudes, but it's pretty clear that the sniper is the dominant one in firefights.

 

[Beowulf]

Yes. I fell in love with the game.
There is only a handful of things that disappoint or frustrate me.
The biggest one is the UI and inventory management, which is pretty barebones (and might be the reason why there are no real vendors, but you purchase predefined items by interacting with the map).
And for the combat it's this damage reduction. At the beginning I didn't think it would be that big of an issue, but the way this damage reduction works for bursts and full auto actually promotes the degenrate silent sniper gameplay.
Basically if you single shots are preferred, than why not use those with highest single shot damage - hence why sniper rifles trump assault rifles in this game. And if you pick a sniper rifle, why not attach a silencer.
Machine guns have their own niche and are actually useful, but you need to manage your ammo well if you are using one of those - either craft a lot of your MG ammo, or switch to a different ammo standard for the rest of the team.

Agreed on both points, in that order of importance too. The lack of sector inventory sorting is baffling to me. I was replaying JA2 recently in anticipation and I was thinking about all the cool new sorting options JA3 would likely have... Then the first time I closed and reopened sector stash with everything still unsorted I died a little inside.

Im curious why burst and auto fire needed a damage nerf. They are already pretty inaccurate without it. I do think it is funny that a lot of issues with the game are re-creating issues that existed in JA2 as well.

That said, also agreed about falling in love with the game. It feels like a JA game to me.

I think you might have to limit yourself a bit, not going full snipers, aka optimize the shit out of the game, even if a game like JA is meant for it. I run a random crew with usually only one sniper. I like my close-combat smg dudes, but it's pretty clear that the sniper is the dominant one in firefights.

Yeah, I have the same approach. Stick to one sniper per team (2 snipers in the squad with my IMP), other than that I try to have balanced composition and use hired mercs to their strengths - i.e. Blood is running around throwing knives, Dr Q is kung-fu fighting, Barry slungin grenades etc. And I try to make flanking SMG guy happen, but you have to derive fun from that approach. But the silenced sniper build is OP in many, if not most of these type of games.

 

[gogis]

I think you might have to limit yourself a bit, not going full snipers, aka optimize the shit out of the game, even if a game like JA is meant for it. I run a random crew with usually only one sniper. I like my close-combat smg dudes, but it's pretty clear that the sniper is the dominant one in firefights.

Yes. I fell in love with the game.
There is only a handful of things that disappoint or frustrate me.
The biggest one is the UI and inventory management, which is pretty barebones (and might be the reason why there are no real vendors, but you purchase predefined items by interacting with the map).
And for the combat it's this damage reduction. At the beginning I didn't think it would be that big of an issue, but the way this damage reduction works for bursts and full auto actually promotes the degenrate silent sniper gameplay.
Basically if you single shots are preferred, than why not use those with highest single shot damage - hence why sniper rifles trump assault rifles in this game. And if you pick a sniper rifle, why not attach a silencer.
Machine guns have their own niche and are actually useful, but you need to manage your ammo well if you are using one of those - either craft a lot of your MG ammo, or switch to a different ammo standard for the rest of the team.

Agreed on both points, in that order of importance too. The lack of sector inventory sorting is baffling to me. I was replaying JA2 recently in anticipation and I was thinking about all the cool new sorting options JA3 would likely have... Then the first time I closed and reopened sector stash with everything still unsorted I died a little inside.

Im curious why burst and auto fire needed a damage nerf. They are already pretty inaccurate without it. I do think it is funny that a lot of issues with the game are re-creating issues that existed in JA2 as well.

That said, also agreed about falling in love with the game. It feels like a JA game to me.

I think you might have to limit yourself a bit, not going full snipers, aka optimize the shit out of the game, even if a game like JA is meant for it. I run a random crew with usually only one sniper. I like my close-combat smg dudes, but it's pretty clear that the sniper is the dominant one in firefights.

I don't think it's optimization. In CQC enconters snipers are weak, while properly perked Igor can down 3-4 enemies in a turn. You are really better with all tools in a box. Shotgun for debuffs, snipers for long range, melee for CQC. Building all long guns is not optimized at all

 

[Beowulf]

I don't think it's optimization. In CQC enconters snipers are weak, while properly perked Igor can down 3-4 enemies in a turn. You are really better with all tools in a box. Shotgun for debuffs, snipers for long range, melee for CQC. Building all long guns is not optimized at all

You won't have CQC if you drop them from 30 tiles afar. And those 3-4 enemies downed by Igor in melee accounts for abusing the 0AP exploit?

I'm not arguing here for the sniper rifles, I'm trying to not make them meta weapons.
I've had good success using blood and his throwing knives. With a bit of luck he can easily take out 3 non elite enemies on his own. Dr Q can reliably take out 2 when using the knockdown on one.
And shotguns. Yeah, they are a blast.

 

[gogis]

I don't think it's optimization. In CQC enconters snipers are weak, while properly perked Igor can down 3-4 enemies in a turn. You are really better with all tools in a box. Shotgun for debuffs, snipers for long range, melee for CQC. Building all long guns is not optimized at all

You won't have CQC if you drop them from 30 tiles afar. And those 3-4 enemies downed by Igor in melee accounts for abusing the 0AP exploit?

I'm not arguing here for the sniper rifles, I'm trying to not make them meta weapons.
I've had good success using blood and his throwing knives. With a bit of luck he can easily take out 3 non elite enemies on his own. Dr Q can reliably take out 2 when using the knockdown on one.
And shotguns. Yeah, they are a blast.

You can't drop 30 enemies from 30 tiles afar. There are battles where you start nearly surrounded by 30 enemies, out of stealth. You need to have something killing more than one target a turn. 3-4 enemies down by Igor - no, i'ts just reset free movement on melee attack. With something like "The Thing" he does 70ish damage per 4(3? can't remember) ap. Kill, free move, rinse and repeat. With drugs and inspired he can go on quite a rampage.
I abosultely love idea every merc have his extra spicy ability. Adds to replayability

 

[Infinitron]

Should I cause butthurt adding "Codex Consensus: Neutral-Positive" to the thread title?

If causing grognard butthurt is the goal I'd go with "universal acclaim" instead

 

[bobocrunch]

The game is soulful with a shitton of reactivity to your choices both big and minor. It's not tacticool autism 1.13+ but I think it's a genuinely great game that I can't put down.

 

[Fargus]

I heard all mines will deplete eventually, is that true?

Just like in JA2. One of my early mines depleted already. I am more interested if timer is running on mines I do not control

If i remember it right only one of the mines runs out in JA2 and it's always random which one. Another mine will shut down because of bug infestation, but only in sci-fi mode and only temporarily.

But i heard in JA3 ALL controlled mines will deplete after some time so you have to go out of your way to capture more to stay afloat.