Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Do you mean it's another XCOM clone?

It's really not.
You'd know, if you actually played it.

 

[Parsimonious cook]

So... is this any gud?

 

[Infinitron]

Should I cause butthurt adding "Codex Consensus: Neutral-Positive" to the thread title?

 

[raeven]

Should I cause butthurt adding "Codex Consensus: Neutral-Positive" to the thread title?

If causing grognard butthurt is the goal I'd go with "universal acclaim" instead

 

[gogis]

So is this game actually good?

Good tactical game? Yes.

Good Jagged Alliance game? Opinions are all over the place.

Do you mean it's another XCOM clone?

I'ts more similar to Wasteland, but better

let's recap.

- You have something similar to XCOM pod activation mechanic, but not really. It's not POD, it's per individual, all enemies who see action will react. Unless you initiated combat with agressive action, they tend to seek cover on first round, but it's wildly inconsistent, I encountered both shooting and stabbing when they supposed to run for cover. I don't have enough data of why this happens. If you initiate combat yourself, all your shoot/overwatch guys will have their AP spent
- You DO NOT have double action of XCOM. I'ts AP, just like in JA2/Wasteland. I wish they inflated AP number, like 1.13, for granularity, but we get what we get. I think they tried to copy JA2 instead of 1.13, which is questionable decision, but whatever. AP depends on same stats and expended with different speed depending on stance, just like JA.
- Despite couple retards here insist that game have binary hit/miss system like nuXCOM, it's properly simulates bullet physics. You will get stray hits, you will get wall penetration, floor destructions with fall damage and hits to different (from which you intended) body parts. Game literally have free aim mode (which you should use for better shotgun cones) if you dislike XCOM-like selection of targets. Once you get your first MG, any doubts about that will dissipate. Pretty much like JA2 minus bullet drop (which many people disable in 1.13 anyways)
- The cover system, it's basically visual. You see that pile of rubble? You see it red-broken-shield when you stay, it becomes half-shield when you crouch and full cover when you prone. Bad news it's not gonna provide any cover the steeper the angle from enemy to that cover. Not like nuXCOM, where full cover is full cover., unless you perfectly 90+ degrees flank it. Not to mention, that you don't see shit and can't shoot directly through that cover, so expect crouch/prone hopping. General advice - don't rely on UI cover representation at all - if it looks shabby or questionable it's indeed shabby and questionable.
- Overwatch system. Very similar to XCOM, but it's cone (unless you have merc with 360 degree), be careful with setup, because your merc can leave cover to set it up.

I think you getting so much feedback about it being close to nuXCOM than to JA2 because a) people are generally morons b) they don't play both games like I do regularly (and I play openXCOM too a lot). This game is infinitely closer to JA2 than to XCOM, not even close, even if it's need a lot of fixing.

 

[Alienman]

Yes. I fell in love with the game.
There is only a handful of things that disappoint or frustrate me.
The biggest one is the UI and inventory management, which is pretty barebones (and might be the reason why there are no real vendors, but you purchase predefined items by interacting with the map).
And for the combat it's this damage reduction. At the beginning I didn't think it would be that big of an issue, but the way this damage reduction works for bursts and full auto actually promotes the degenrate silent sniper gameplay.
Basically if you single shots are preferred, than why not use those with highest single shot damage - hence why sniper rifles trump assault rifles in this game. And if you pick a sniper rifle, why not attach a silencer.
Machine guns have their own niche and are actually useful, but you need to manage your ammo well if you are using one of those - either craft a lot of your MG ammo, or switch to a different ammo standard for the rest of the team.

Agreed on both points, in that order of importance too. The lack of sector inventory sorting is baffling to me. I was replaying JA2 recently in anticipation and I was thinking about all the cool new sorting options JA3 would likely have... Then the first time I closed and reopened sector stash with everything still unsorted I died a little inside.

Im curious why burst and auto fire needed a damage nerf. They are already pretty inaccurate without it. I do think it is funny that a lot of issues with the game are re-creating issues that existed in JA2 as well.

That said, also agreed about falling in love with the game. It feels like a JA game to me.

I think you might have to limit yourself a bit, not going full snipers, aka optimize the shit out of the game, even if a game like JA is meant for it. I run a random crew with usually only one sniper. I like my close-combat smg dudes, but it's pretty clear that the sniper is the dominant one in firefights.

 

[Beowulf]

Yes. I fell in love with the game.
There is only a handful of things that disappoint or frustrate me.
The biggest one is the UI and inventory management, which is pretty barebones (and might be the reason why there are no real vendors, but you purchase predefined items by interacting with the map).
And for the combat it's this damage reduction. At the beginning I didn't think it would be that big of an issue, but the way this damage reduction works for bursts and full auto actually promotes the degenrate silent sniper gameplay.
Basically if you single shots are preferred, than why not use those with highest single shot damage - hence why sniper rifles trump assault rifles in this game. And if you pick a sniper rifle, why not attach a silencer.
Machine guns have their own niche and are actually useful, but you need to manage your ammo well if you are using one of those - either craft a lot of your MG ammo, or switch to a different ammo standard for the rest of the team.

Agreed on both points, in that order of importance too. The lack of sector inventory sorting is baffling to me. I was replaying JA2 recently in anticipation and I was thinking about all the cool new sorting options JA3 would likely have... Then the first time I closed and reopened sector stash with everything still unsorted I died a little inside.

Im curious why burst and auto fire needed a damage nerf. They are already pretty inaccurate without it. I do think it is funny that a lot of issues with the game are re-creating issues that existed in JA2 as well.

That said, also agreed about falling in love with the game. It feels like a JA game to me.

I think you might have to limit yourself a bit, not going full snipers, aka optimize the shit out of the game, even if a game like JA is meant for it. I run a random crew with usually only one sniper. I like my close-combat smg dudes, but it's pretty clear that the sniper is the dominant one in firefights.

Yeah, I have the same approach. Stick to one sniper per team (2 snipers in the squad with my IMP), other than that I try to have balanced composition and use hired mercs to their strengths - i.e. Blood is running around throwing knives, Dr Q is kung-fu fighting, Barry slungin grenades etc. And I try to make flanking SMG guy happen, but you have to derive fun from that approach. But the silenced sniper build is OP in many, if not most of these type of games.

 

[gogis]

I think you might have to limit yourself a bit, not going full snipers, aka optimize the shit out of the game, even if a game like JA is meant for it. I run a random crew with usually only one sniper. I like my close-combat smg dudes, but it's pretty clear that the sniper is the dominant one in firefights.

Yes. I fell in love with the game.
There is only a handful of things that disappoint or frustrate me.
The biggest one is the UI and inventory management, which is pretty barebones (and might be the reason why there are no real vendors, but you purchase predefined items by interacting with the map).
And for the combat it's this damage reduction. At the beginning I didn't think it would be that big of an issue, but the way this damage reduction works for bursts and full auto actually promotes the degenrate silent sniper gameplay.
Basically if you single shots are preferred, than why not use those with highest single shot damage - hence why sniper rifles trump assault rifles in this game. And if you pick a sniper rifle, why not attach a silencer.
Machine guns have their own niche and are actually useful, but you need to manage your ammo well if you are using one of those - either craft a lot of your MG ammo, or switch to a different ammo standard for the rest of the team.

Agreed on both points, in that order of importance too. The lack of sector inventory sorting is baffling to me. I was replaying JA2 recently in anticipation and I was thinking about all the cool new sorting options JA3 would likely have... Then the first time I closed and reopened sector stash with everything still unsorted I died a little inside.

Im curious why burst and auto fire needed a damage nerf. They are already pretty inaccurate without it. I do think it is funny that a lot of issues with the game are re-creating issues that existed in JA2 as well.

That said, also agreed about falling in love with the game. It feels like a JA game to me.

I think you might have to limit yourself a bit, not going full snipers, aka optimize the shit out of the game, even if a game like JA is meant for it. I run a random crew with usually only one sniper. I like my close-combat smg dudes, but it's pretty clear that the sniper is the dominant one in firefights.

I don't think it's optimization. In CQC enconters snipers are weak, while properly perked Igor can down 3-4 enemies in a turn. You are really better with all tools in a box. Shotgun for debuffs, snipers for long range, melee for CQC. Building all long guns is not optimized at all

 

[Beowulf]

I don't think it's optimization. In CQC enconters snipers are weak, while properly perked Igor can down 3-4 enemies in a turn. You are really better with all tools in a box. Shotgun for debuffs, snipers for long range, melee for CQC. Building all long guns is not optimized at all

You won't have CQC if you drop them from 30 tiles afar. And those 3-4 enemies downed by Igor in melee accounts for abusing the 0AP exploit?

I'm not arguing here for the sniper rifles, I'm trying to not make them meta weapons.
I've had good success using blood and his throwing knives. With a bit of luck he can easily take out 3 non elite enemies on his own. Dr Q can reliably take out 2 when using the knockdown on one.
And shotguns. Yeah, they are a blast.

 

[gogis]

I don't think it's optimization. In CQC enconters snipers are weak, while properly perked Igor can down 3-4 enemies in a turn. You are really better with all tools in a box. Shotgun for debuffs, snipers for long range, melee for CQC. Building all long guns is not optimized at all

You won't have CQC if you drop them from 30 tiles afar. And those 3-4 enemies downed by Igor in melee accounts for abusing the 0AP exploit?

I'm not arguing here for the sniper rifles, I'm trying to not make them meta weapons.
I've had good success using blood and his throwing knives. With a bit of luck he can easily take out 3 non elite enemies on his own. Dr Q can reliably take out 2 when using the knockdown on one.
And shotguns. Yeah, they are a blast.

You can't drop 30 enemies from 30 tiles afar. There are battles where you start nearly surrounded by 30 enemies, out of stealth. You need to have something killing more than one target a turn. 3-4 enemies down by Igor - no, i'ts just reset free movement on melee attack. With something like "The Thing" he does 70ish damage per 4(3? can't remember) ap. Kill, free move, rinse and repeat. With drugs and inspired he can go on quite a rampage.
I abosultely love idea every merc have his extra spicy ability. Adds to replayability

 

[Infinitron]

Should I cause butthurt adding "Codex Consensus: Neutral-Positive" to the thread title?

If causing grognard butthurt is the goal I'd go with "universal acclaim" instead

 

[bobocrunch]

The game is soulful with a shitton of reactivity to your choices both big and minor. It's not tacticool autism 1.13+ but I think it's a genuinely great game that I can't put down.

 

[Fargus]

I heard all mines will deplete eventually, is that true?

Just like in JA2. One of my early mines depleted already. I am more interested if timer is running on mines I do not control

If i remember it right only one of the mines runs out in JA2 and it's always random which one. Another mine will shut down because of bug infestation, but only in sci-fi mode and only temporarily.

But i heard in JA3 ALL controlled mines will deplete after some time so you have to go out of your way to capture more to stay afloat.

 

[ArchAngel]

So is this game actually good?

Good tactical game? Yes.

Good Jagged Alliance game? Opinions are all over the place.

Do you mean it's another XCOM clone?

I'ts more similar to Wasteland, but better

let's recap.

- You have something similar to XCOM pod activation mechanic, but not really. It's not POD, it's per individual, all enemies who see action will react. Unless you initiated combat with agressive action, they tend to seek cover on first round, but it's wildly inconsistent, I encountered both shooting and stabbing when they supposed to run for cover. I don't have enough data of why this happens. If you initiate combat yourself, all your shoot/overwatch guys will have their AP spent
- You DO NOT have double action of XCOM. I'ts AP, just like in JA2/Wasteland. I wish they inflated AP number, like 1.13, for granularity, but we get what we get. I think they tried to copy JA2 instead of 1.13, which is questionable decision, but whatever. AP depends on same stats and expended with different speed depending on stance, just like JA.
- Despite couple retards here insist that game have binary hit/miss system like nuXCOM, it's properly simulates bullet physics. You will get stray hits, you will get wall penetration, floor destructions with fall damage and hits to different (from which you intended) body parts. Game literally have free aim mode (which you should use for better shotgun cones) if you dislike XCOM-like selection of targets. Once you get your first MG, any doubts about that will dissipate. Pretty much like JA2 minus bullet drop (which many people disable in 1.13 anyways)
- The cover system, it's basically visual. You see that pile of rubble? You see it red-broken-shield when you stay, it becomes half-shield when you crouch and full cover when you prone. Bad news it's not gonna provide any cover the steeper the angle from enemy to that cover. Not like nuXCOM, where full cover is full cover., unless you perfectly 90+ degrees flank it. Not to mention, that you don't see shit and can't shoot directly through that cover, so expect crouch/prone hopping. General advice - don't rely on UI cover representation at all - if it looks shabby or questionable it's indeed shabby and questionable.
- Overwatch system. Very similar to XCOM, but it's cone (unless you have merc with 360 degree), be careful with setup, because your merc can leave cover to set it up.

I think you getting so much feedback about it being close to nuXCOM than to JA2 because a) people are generally morons b) they don't play both games like I do regularly (and I play openXCOM too a lot). This game is infinitely closer to JA2 than to XCOM, not even close, even if it's need a lot of fixing.

I have still not see this miss one body part, hit another and I have also spent hours watching people playing it. Also didn't devs themselves confirm that if you miss one body part you will not hit another.
Also this is all beat by using hit chance mod that clearly shows that things like darkeness, cover and other shit gives -20 or -10 or -XX to your hit chances. It is not hard for PC game to say if cover gives -20% penalty and you miss by that 20% game fires your bullet towards that cover to make it seem more realistic.

 

[bobocrunch]

They didn't do the missed shots hitting other limbs because of people being confused in some interview

Literally everything in games is computer calculations, the point is that the guns aren't just stat lasers that either do damage or not but an actual thing that spews bullets (can see in my video the AA12 breaking the railing and floor) that can break shit or hit the wrong target

 

[Strange Fellow]

Do I really need to kill all the commies in Pentagruel to take control of the mine?

Not that that's a problem.

No, you'll get to 50 loyalty just by fighting the Legion, then you can do 1 or 2 quests (preferably including distributing this work of propaganda).

And the commie leader will realize that the revolution betrayed its own ideas and will step down giving you the mine.

So it's another quest, just like Landsbach. Disappointing. I'm not convinced the huge increase in quests actually works to the game's benefit. Starting to really feel the fatigue from running to and fro and clicking clicking clicking outside of combat. I might just kill them all anyway.

 

[ArchAngel]

They didn't do the missed shots hitting other limbs because of people being confused in some interview

Literally everything in games is computer calculations, the point is that the guns aren't just stat lasers that either do damage or not but an actual thing that spews bullets (can see in my video the AA12 breaking the railing and floor) that can break shit or hit the wrong target

They did the same in nuXcoms as well. This game only added penetration and missing shots able to hit other targets which is better than nuXcom but still not full projectile simulation. And it can be easily proved if you can miss shots from standing next to enemy.

 

[randir14]

The game is soulful with a shitton of reactivity to your choices both big and minor.

That's one of my favorite things about it, and how each merc has their own personality that causes them to react differently to whatever's happening. For example Raider has the highest leadership stat in the roster, and it's reflected in the way he encourages your team and boosts them up.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

This is honestly a game changer:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3005944929

 

[Cyberarmy]

Welp, lost 2 mercs to a grenade and 2 others to lucky hits from burst fire. Commando Iron man don't allow fuck ups.

 

[Abu Antar]

This is honestly a game changer:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3005944929

Cool, I will restart, and try this.

 

[Beowulf]

The game is soulful with a shitton of reactivity to your choices both big and minor.

That's one of my favorite things about it, and how each merc has their own personality that causes them to react differently to whatever's happening. For example Raider has the highest leadership stat in the roster, and it's reflected in the way he encourages your team and boosts them up.

Agreed. The game world shows a surprising amount of reactivity - there are voice-lines for major choices (sparing or killing Pierre, helping communists, killing slave master or the prison warden etc), but also for those smaller quests.
Once I distributed those revolutionary pamphlets (which is totally optional and not necessary to progress the game, not even necessary to have 100% loyalty in Pantagruel, I believe), I'm seeing different people asking about them in other parts of the country:

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I got sucked in last night until 1am which is always a good sign. All the combat grannies died to the last, but took out half the attack force in return, and I got to loot their guns. Win-win.

On Commando difficulty, I was able to preserve the lives of all but one. Rude Trudy just starts too isolated to rescue in time.
To be fair I save scummed after seeing where the town defenses were actually deployed (in my mind we were able to coordinate after I basically sat there waiting for 3 days).

And yeah I already have 15 hours in the game over 2 days played, while still trying to do normal weekend things. It's different, which we all knew it would be, but it goddamn sure scratches the itch.

I think I went to Cacao too early, first place I stopped after the starter island. It looked like the least well guarded mine and easiest to defend.

I took the prison nearby and it was intense. I'm assuming someone will give you the quest to go there so I'm testing the limits of sequence breaking. I had Fox sneak around and shoot most of the isolated guards in the back to avoid a battle, the guards were tougher and much better equipped that other enemies so far. It's funny how stealth kills work, Fox had a better chance to instakill from shooting and enemy in the foot than Omryn with head hots because she has 100 dex.

After clearing the outside guards I snuck into the lower level, cleared about half the guys with stealth including the warden, who actually dropped his Steyr Aug, unlike all the snipers with their mysterious vanishing Drugonovs outside. After clearing the inside I freed some dude who had 5 prisoners join me to finish the battle outside, then left to go to some other town to kill a guy I hadn't met yet. Well I hope there's no consequences for that decision!

When I went back outside the AI seemed to break. I ambushed the prison chief Jackhammer in his office, who sadly did not drop his auto shotty. But the 5 helpers just sat there in the yard and did nothing, and the remaining guards in the barracks didn't react either. Probably some scripting error. Then I had to go to bed because it was waaay too late.

 

[Ghulgothas]

Be sure to have some lockpicks/crowbars with you when you go to the prison basement, you can bust some prisoners out for minor loyalty gains/losses for all towns on the map depending on who you spring.

 

[Jrpgfan]

Decided to give it a try and it's not as bad as I thought it would be based on Codex Popular Opinion™.

However, the writing is awfully bad. The humor seems to be aimed at 10yos. Beats me why they thought it would be a good idea to insert chidilsh humor in a game with a mostly adult playerbase. And it's not even the "good" childish humor, some(most) of them is so retarded and badly written that I doubt even the 12yo me would have laughed. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was done by one of those so called "professional" writers praised by the likes of Fargo and Inxile devs(like that Samantha chick or whatever the fuck was her name).

This kind of writing makes me even more glad indie devs with "amateur" writers(like Vault Dweller, Styg and sser) exist.