Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[Shaki]

Good tactial game, you give everyone a rifle and autowin everything.

So....
Just like JA1 and 2?

Yes, somehow they didn't manage to fix the mistakes of ~25 years old games, even though modders already showed them for free how it's supposed to be done. It doesn't even begin to approach JA2 1.13 with AI mod, and pretty much every modern tactical game I've played was also much better. Hell, even nuXCOM is 10x more challenging and complex than this dogshit.

JA2 vanilla at least had a lot of autism, inventory management and shit, so you could roleplay and pretend there is something complex in the game to do, here everything is streamlined so the flaws are even more glaring. Also in JA2 you at least had to get some mercs with decent marksmanship, so you had to do some money management, Gumpy wasn't going to headshot anyone, no matter what weapon you gave him. Here there is literally no difference between 3k merc and 30k merc, both come equipped with dogshit and both will 100% headshot with the rifle. I'm swimming in money, my 20k total cost squad is bulldozing everything and there is 0 reason to hire anyone else, nothing to spend all this cash on.

 

[anvi]

It's like this game was made by reddit.

 

[Beowulf]

It's like this game was made by reddit.

All new characters are like that.

 

[whydoibother]

Good tactical game, you give everyone a rifle and autowin everything.

Melee is much stronger.
>free movement from no armor
>free movement from starting turn in cover
>free movement from meleeing enemies
>free movements used TO melee enemies
I wish the action you open combat with would refund the points paid for it, so you can enter from stealth and just delete a group of enemies in melee.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

I have to say that after playing some hour in the mid game their decision to nerf damage for full-auto and burst weapon is even more baffling.
These are in DIRE need to get something to stay viable, because by this point you have more chances to shot down an enemy with a sniper rifle headshot from whatever distance that going auto-weapons and shotguns at point-blank range.

Still, nothing that can't be fixed with a rebalance patch, but they need to acknowledge that the problem exists.

P.S. For the record I'm not even concerned about "difficulty" or "challenge". I'm just stating that there is one clear dominant strategy and the other have very little appeal in comparison.

 

[Shaki]

Good tactical game, you give everyone a rifle and autowin everything.

Melee is much stronger.
>free movement from no armor
>free movement from starting turn in cover
>free movement from meleeing enemies
>free movements used TO melee enemies
I wish the action you open combat with would refund the points paid for it, so you can enter from stealth and just delete a group of enemies in melee.

Melee is only strong because its bugged and free movement allows for endless attacks, still rifles in long range and explosives in close quarters are even better tho, far less risk.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Good tactical game, you give everyone a rifle and autowin everything.

Melee is much stronger.
>free movement from no armor
>free movement from starting turn in cover
>free movement from meleeing enemies
>free movements used TO melee enemies
I wish the action you open combat with would refund the points paid for it, so you can enter from stealth and just delete a group of enemies in melee.

Or just lay out an MG, hit end turn, go make a cup of coffee and come back to a cleared sector.

Almost everything can be ludicrously overpowered in this game. Playing on harder difficulty modes is a must.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

You can have a merc with 50 marksmanship, he'll still be headshotting enemies left and right across the whole map.

This is fake news, mercs with 80+ marksmanship miss often, even with triple-aimed headshots. And you can't get enough explosives to spam them, at least not until the midgame. I did have Raven kill three guys in one overwatch, but that's because she was in stealth mode and has high dex, she has near max Marksmanship, and costs almost $20K by herself. So either you're playing on some modded super-easy mode or you're just a liar.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Or just lay out an MG, hit end turn, go make a cup of coffee and come back to a cleared sector.

Almost everything can be ludicrously overpowered in this game. Playing on harder difficulty modes is a must.

Yeah, well, but unless you spend time crafting them, there are not enough bullets in the entire game to feed a single full magazine of that thing, let alone using it as a recurring strategy.
That's also part of the problem: the "sniper strategy" is encouraged twice by being incredibly bullet efficient.

 

[Strange Fellow]

That's a fair point.

The Gewehr 98 is too good. Degenerate sniping tictacs were possible in 2 as well, but you needed good guns. Even in Silent Storm, where the degeneracy was dialled up to 11, getting scoped rifles was a big deal. The 98 should be a shoddy little bolt-action, not a viable end-game sniper rifle. It's 120 years old, for crying out loud.

You can have a merc with 50 marksmanship, he'll still be headshotting enemies left and right across the whole map.

This is fake news, mercs with 80+ marksmanship miss often, even with triple-aimed headshots.

They just don't. At least not on Normal difficulty. Mercs with rifles missing anything at all is a rarity.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I'm wondering why people are complaining it's too hard on the steam forums

Codex is full of masochists, but Steam users are bad at the game. Nothing new there.

Playing on mid level with non-forgiving mode is fine. I'm seeing people on Steam complain that ammo is too scarce and single-shot rifles are mandatory. I am using three characters with burst fire regularly and I haven't run out or really come close. 7.62 WP and 9mm are quite common, 7.62 and 5.56 NATO are less so and I've had to craft them but it's no big deal. I haven't used a MG yet though. There's also the question of how much ammo is "not enough." If I go into combat with 1-2 extra mags per character, that is plenty. But some people may see that as dangerously low. You're not a "real" RPGer unless you hoard everything.

I recall the dev saying in JA2 loot drops were lowered by savescumming. I don't know if that's the same here but I suspect it is. If you savescum each shot you may end up with nothing at the end of the map. Players complaining of difficulty may be digging their own grave. It's not a bad system if the player knows about it, but it kinda sucks if you don't.

 

[whydoibother]

Playing on mid level with non-forgiving mode is fine. I'm seeing people on Steam complain that ammo is too scarce and single-shot rifles are mandatory.

The single shot weapons, and melee weapons, are stronger AND require less ammo management. You'd expect better performance for the extra ammo shot from rifles and machine guns.

 

[ArchAngel]

Good tactical game, you give everyone a rifle and autowin everything.

Melee is much stronger.
>free movement from no armor
>free movement from starting turn in cover
>free movement from meleeing enemies
>free movements used TO melee enemies
I wish the action you open combat with would refund the points paid for it, so you can enter from stealth and just delete a group of enemies in melee.

So you are saying you agree with him that it has nuXcom bullshit design?

 

[Grampy_Bone]

The Gewehr 98 is too good.

Eh? Omryn couldn't reliably hit with one with his 80+ marksmanship, and half the time he'd headshot and they'd still live. Giving one to a lower marksman character like Livewire was useless. Shotguns seem like the more reliable gun that anyone can do well with. I didn't feel like sniping was worthwhile until I got a Drugonov and modded it up, and ditched Omryn for Raven.

What gun mods are you using? Maybe the scopes and such make a bigger deal. I didn't bother modding any Gewehrs since I assumed they'd be replaced quickly.

You'd expect better performance for the extra ammo shot from rifles and machine guns.

True. The tradeoff of higher ammo consumption is supposed to compensate for the higher overall hit chance of burst/auto fire, but it's a wash if the damage is cut equally. I've found AKs and FNFALs with burst compensators (+1 burst shot) do respectable damage and are more reliable at mid-marksmanship level than a single shot gun, which is higher risk but higher reward. They also have cheaper AP cost to fire and get more overwatch shots, which has tactical considerations. Still, it is complete bullshit to unload a full auto mag on a dude and only deal 20-30 damage.

If the automatics did full damage with each shot, then high-accuracy burst fire would be unstoppable if you could just reliably put three-four rounds into every enemy's head. Still though, I think you could counter that by putting a cap on burst accuracy of 60-70% or something. I agree it's an annoying design decision.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Mercs with rifles missing anything at all is a rarity.

Are we playing the same game? Omryn is a "marksman" character and his hit rate was shitty for me.

 

[Strange Fellow]

What gun mods are you using? Maybe the scopes and such make a bigger deal. I didn't bother modding any Gewehrs since I assumed they'd be replaced quickly.

There's not a lot of choice when it comes to the Gewehrs. Just the scope that makes the first attack max aim level, and a suppressor.

I don't know what to tell you. Maybe my mercs like me better than yours like you

I do start almost every single encounter in stealth, so maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Omryn:

Best accuracy in the group, but misses are far from a 'rarity.'

 

[Lord of Riva]

Or just lay out an MG, hit end turn, go make a cup of coffee and come back to a cleared sector.

Almost everything can be ludicrously overpowered in this game. Playing on harder difficulty modes is a must.

Yeah, well, but unless you spend time crafting them, there are not enough bullets in the entire game to feed a single full magazine of that thing, let alone using it as a recurring strategy.
That's also part of the problem: the "sniper strategy" is encouraged twice by being incredibly bullet efficient.

Just no. I'm swimming in ammo and can feed my "Steroid" MG permanently it rips clusters of enemies apart.
I'm using two assault rifles, a Grenade launcher/SMG mix on Berry a sniper and said MG (+shotgun on side) and have had no ammo problems. Once I got close to running out of 7.62 ammo but spreading your weapons to feed different types of ammunition is key here.

You get so much money by scrapping MGs it's laughable.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Just no. I'm swimming in ammo and can feed my "Steroid" MG permanently it rips clusters of enemies apart.
I'm using two assault rifles, a Grenade launcher/SMG mix on Berry a sniper and said MG (+shotgun on side) and have had no ammo problems. Once I got close to running out of 7.62 ammo but spreading your weapons to feed different types of ammunition is key here.

You get so much money by scrapping MGs it's laughable.

I don't give a shit if you are swimming in ammo or in manure.
I'm mid way through the campaign and I entire categories of weapons that never had more than a full magazine of bullets so far. In some cases I had weapons that I never found ammo for.
And I've not been wasteful at all.
It's also worth stressing that you can "take a break and craft" only in determinate spots and that doing it means wasting few hours every time, in a game where time is your most expensive good.

You can go and check the Steam forum and see that there are already a half dozen discussions on the topic.

 

[gogis]

Good tactical game, you give everyone a rifle and autowin everything. You can have a merc with 50 marksmanship, he'll still be headshotting enemies left and right across the whole map. Literally just set up anywhere, start combat, keep clicking to headshot everyone. Or give one guy silencer and clear whole map in stealth solo. Keep some explosives to autowin all the scenarios when you're ambushed in close quarters.

All other types of weapons and strategies are pointless. Very tactical and challenging indeed.

I thought inventory system being so simple and lack of Bobby Ray's, was a MAJOR decline, but now I understand, it was a good design decision - what's the point of making a gun shop when all you need is 6 rifles that you find in the first 3 hours, to autowin the whole game.

After just finishing my first playthrough of Phoenix Point, this game is such a dogshit disappointment in comparison, I'll probably force myself to rush to the end just so retards cant tell me "NUH UH ITS AKSHUALLY GREAT GAME YOU JUST DIDN'T PLAY IT ENOUGH TO NOTICE!!!!!!"

My MD hits headshots with 98 once in a blue moon. OK, son, show me stats of your lowliest aim RAMBO who hits more than 70% with rifle or GTFO.
Also, if you place rifle above MG I doubt you any far in the game

 

[Grampy_Bone]

never had more than a full magazine of bullets

Curious, do you save and reload often during battles, and are you unloading looted guns before scrapping them?

I have hundreds of 7.62 wp, .44, and 9mm, decent shotgun ammo, but nato rounds are more scarce. I also wonder if the game is rubberbanding somehow, and you get more ammo drops when your stocks are low.

 

[gogis]

never had more than a full magazine of bullets

and are you unloading looted guns before scrapping them?

Scrapping will net you all ammo of scrapped gun. I literally tested it in my first scrap

 

[gogis]

Just no. I'm swimming in ammo and can feed my "Steroid" MG permanently it rips clusters of enemies apart.
I'm using two assault rifles, a Grenade launcher/SMG mix on Berry a sniper and said MG (+shotgun on side) and have had no ammo problems. Once I got close to running out of 7.62 ammo but spreading your weapons to feed different types of ammunition is key here.

You get so much money by scrapping MGs it's laughable.

I don't give a shit if you are swimming in ammo or in manure.
I'm mid way through the campaign and I entire categories of weapons that never had more than a full magazine of bullets so far. In some cases I had weapons that I never found ammo for.
And I've not been wasteful at all.
It's also worth stressing that you can "take a break and craft" only in determinate spots and that doing it means wasting few hours every time, in a game where time is your most expensive good.

You can go and check the Steam forum and see that there are already a half dozen discussions on the topic.

There are many, MANY places where you can craft ammo you need and you also can breakdown things to get ammo components (I think you can break those grenades with one turn delay). It's very weird that people complain about need to craft things when you had whole deliver/repair/sell/order ammo logistic chains in JA2. It's was huge busywork there and it's much less here. Why complain? If anything, it's an improvement over JA2 (arguably).

 

[Lord of Riva]

Just no. I'm swimming in ammo and can feed my "Steroid" MG permanently it rips clusters of enemies apart.
I'm using two assault rifles, a Grenade launcher/SMG mix on Berry a sniper and said MG (+shotgun on side) and have had no ammo problems. Once I got close to running out of 7.62 ammo but spreading your weapons to feed different types of ammunition is key here.

You get so much money by scrapping MGs it's laughable.

I don't give a shit if you are swimming in ammo or in manure.
I'm mid way through the campaign and I entire categories of weapons that never had more than a full magazine of bullets so far. In some cases I had weapons that I never found ammo for.
And I've not been wasteful at all.
It's also worth stressing that you can "take a break and craft" only in determinate spots and that doing it means wasting few hours every time, in a game where time is your most expensive good.

You can go and check the Steam forum and see that there are already a half dozen discussions on the topic.

I have also never crafted ammo.

You can unload all the weapons you can find, that is a full mag on every Assault rifle and up to 180 bullets on finding an MG.

It also costs no time to scrap weapons, you are wrong, modifying doesn't either. The only thing I have ever crafted are Grenades for my grenade launchers out of C4.

 

[Shaki]

Good tactical game, you give everyone a rifle and autowin everything. You can have a merc with 50 marksmanship, he'll still be headshotting enemies left and right across the whole map. Literally just set up anywhere, start combat, keep clicking to headshot everyone. Or give one guy silencer and clear whole map in stealth solo. Keep some explosives to autowin all the scenarios when you're ambushed in close quarters.

All other types of weapons and strategies are pointless. Very tactical and challenging indeed.

I thought inventory system being so simple and lack of Bobby Ray's, was a MAJOR decline, but now I understand, it was a good design decision - what's the point of making a gun shop when all you need is 6 rifles that you find in the first 3 hours, to autowin the whole game.

After just finishing my first playthrough of Phoenix Point, this game is such a dogshit disappointment in comparison, I'll probably force myself to rush to the end just so retards cant tell me "NUH UH ITS AKSHUALLY GREAT GAME YOU JUST DIDN'T PLAY IT ENOUGH TO NOTICE!!!!!!"

My MD hits headshots with 98 once in a blue moon.

Because you can't read and are dogshit even at the super casual and easy game, literally rightclick on the rifle, click modify, add all mods that add aim level or bonus accuracy per aim level, there you go, guaranteed headshots. It provides so much aim bonus, marksmanship is literally irrelevant.

This is fake news, mercs with 80+ marksmanship miss often, even with triple-aimed headshots. And you can't get enough explosives to spam them, at least not until the midgame. I did have Raven kill three guys in one overwatch, but that's because she was in stealth mode and has high dex, she has near max Marksmanship, and costs almost $20K by herself. So either you're playing on some modded super-easy mode or you're just a liar.

Same answer to you.

Explosives are ezpz, you can craft them + barry has OP ability that constantly produces his own for free, and you don't need them often since on any map that allows you to start fight from decent range, everything will die to your rifles.